1 00:00:22,900 --> 00:00:26,200 Hello and welcome to Word and Work an Intersection. 2 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:31,000 I'm your host Dale Meyer. Our guest today is the Provost at Concordia 3 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,400 Seminary. 4 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:32,000 Dr. 5 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:37,300 Douglas Rutt and we want to talk with him about missions what prompted 6 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:42,200 his interest in mission and some missionary writings at our library 7 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,500 here has recently received. Welcome 8 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:49,100 and I want to say that the working with you 9 00:00:49,100 --> 00:00:53,900 these last years has been a great honor and learning experience. Doctor 10 00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:54,200 Rutt 11 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,900 if you don't know combines interest and expertise in theological 12 00:00:58,900 --> 00:01:03,900 education with a real heart for Missions, and so we're going to try 13 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:06,300 and bring both of those major 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:14,900 focuses of your ministry out in this discussion. To get into this since 15 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:16,800 I'm off campus a lot. 16 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,100 Tell us about the last year? 17 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:26,200 I'm sure it's been interesting for you? Oh yeah it's definitely been a very interesting year a time of transition. 18 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:32,100 and of course, we have a new president elect now and he will be 19 00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:38,200 starting the 15th of March and taking over. We've been working for the 20 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,200 past seven or eight months with Dr. 21 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,300 Daniel Preus who has been serving as an interim president has been 22 00:01:44,300 --> 00:01:49,900 going quite well also, so it'll be a real time of transition. But I'm 23 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:52,600 excited and I think the Seminary really has a bright future under the 24 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:53,600 leadership of Doctor Egger. 25 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,100 I agree with that and it's springtime and 26 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:03,200 so the sun coming out just just perks me and I think all of us up and 27 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:04,600 the end is in sight, 28 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,300 whatever that means for Covid. 29 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:13,200 It's a great time. We've been really blessed in that regard since we came back to classes 30 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:21,200 in February after the break we have had very very few situations where people had to be under quarantine or been sick with Covid. 31 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:28,200 I don't think we've had anybody sick with Covid now that I know of for several weeks maybe even a couple of months. 32 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:32,200 And in some measure that's because of the care that you and others in the Administration have taken. 33 00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:37,200 O yeah, everybody is being very careful. The students and the faculty everybody is really trying to do what they can. 34 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:45,200 Because they realize how if they put themselves into a precarious situation and maybe get sick and they've been in class 35 00:02:45,300 --> 00:02:50,200 all of a sudden they end up shutting down a bunch of people, you know until everybody gets tested or 36 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:54,200 they get past a certain period of time so we have been really blessed. 37 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:57,900 Have you been teaching this last year? I am teaching this Spring. I'm teaching 38 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:58,900 a course. 39 00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:04,500 called the Pastor in Church in Mission so the first-year class. 40 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:09,400 So we have three sections of that class and I've got one of them. I 41 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,800 remember teaching or trying to teach while I was president and that's 42 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,600 not easy because there's a lot of administrative things on your desk, 43 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:22,900 but I know I found that helpful as I went about paper pushing. 44 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:28,200 How's it been for you? Yeah, it been a challenge sometimes but I think it has been really good 45 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,200 also to to get back in the classroom all to get to know some of the 46 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,100 students a little bit better. 47 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:34,600 Although with the masks on all the time 48 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:40,000 you don't realize it's not easy to remember there are no match their 49 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:40,900 name with their faces. 50 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,800 I've been telling first-year students specifically the first-year 51 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:52,000 students whom I'm with in formation hour that even being on campus 52 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,600 You're not getting the full CSL experience. 53 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,200 And that's another reason why we look forward to the end 54 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,600 whatever that means of covid. 55 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:07,800 Now we want to talk about the writings the Library has received could we 56 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,800 preface that by talking about your mission experience in South 57 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,100 America, Central America. 58 00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:18,700 Where was it? Well we went in 1983 my family and I went to service 59 00:04:18,700 --> 00:04:20,200 missionaries in Guatemala, Central America. 60 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:25,600 So at first we worked in the City Guatemala City urban area and then 61 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,700 later went to work among indigenous Guatemalan people Mayan Indian 62 00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:35,500 people in the western mountains also worked to both those places and 63 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:36,300 then came back to the city. 64 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:41,000 And yeah, it was great help establish at the theological education 65 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,900 program for the Lutheran Church in Guatemala also. And so that's where 66 00:04:44,900 --> 00:04:48,500 you're the twin focuses of you of your ministry of been theological 67 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:54,000 education, but that was birthed in Guatemala. Yeah it really was. As soon 68 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,500 as I didn't know anything when I first went to the mission 69 00:04:56,500 --> 00:04:59,400 field really how what was going on or what things were going to be 70 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,800 like. But it became very clear that there was a real need for training 71 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,500 more pastors for the ministry of the church. There there had been a 72 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:07,700 seminary 73 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:11,400 in Mexico City that have been closed some years before we got 74 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:11,500 there. 75 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:17,600 And so now they're really wasn't a good consistent program for the 76 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,500 training of new Pastors in so after after having gained some 77 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:25,100 experience on the field and actually going back to the US and serving 78 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:27,900 as a parish Pastor myself for 4 years. 79 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:31,900 We went back to Guatemala and that when we went back was my 80 00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:35,000 responsibility than to try to help establish a program. 81 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Which we called the Lutheran Center for Theological Education. 82 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,400 When you worked at Lutheran Hour Ministries, you were responsible for 83 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:42,900 Mission. 84 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:44,300 Tell us about that? 85 00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:44,500 O yeah 86 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:49,000 that was a really a wonderful experience. So during before I came here to 87 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,400 the Seminary, almost three years ago, 88 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,200 I was serving as the Director of the International Ministry division 89 00:05:55,200 --> 00:06:02,200 of the Lutheran Hour organization, the Lutheran Laymen's League. And we 90 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,600 were operating Ministry Centers we called them in about 40 different 91 00:06:07,700 --> 00:06:12,700 countries around the world had a staff of about 300 people working 92 00:06:12,700 --> 00:06:17,400 around the world in media Ministries. Using various kinds of media, not 93 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,100 only radio but nowadays, of course social media and print media as 94 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:26,100 well as events anything that that could be done in order to bring the 95 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:27,000 word of God to people. 96 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,800 So yeah, that was a wonderful experience. 97 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,200 I left the Lutheran Hour in 2001. 98 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:39,800 And since that time the overseas activity of the LLL has greatly 99 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:40,600 expanded. 100 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:45,800 So it's encouraging to hear that. We were able to take a look at what 101 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,300 we what we made a decision early on was done not just go where it was 102 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:54,200 easiest to work but to try to go to those places where the gospel is 103 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,900 not known very much and so we were able to open up ministry centers in 104 00:06:57,900 --> 00:06:58,400 a number of countries. 105 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,600 I'm not going to name right now are the places 106 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,400 because sometimes it's a little bit sensitive but places where where 107 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,600 they were very few Christians and 108 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:11,300 where other religious systems predominated but we were able to 109 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:14,500 able to do outreach in those areas and they still are doing those. 110 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:15,700 I remember Dr. 111 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:18,900 Oswald Hoffman who was my predecessor at the Lutheran Hour. 112 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:23,000 He'd say that wherever the gospel is present, the spirit is present. 113 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,600 So I mean that is certainly true in the places that that that you 114 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,400 mentioned and we don't want to talk about. So let's get to the the 115 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:38,200 writings that the library has received. Assume that we know absolutely 116 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:39,600 nothing about this. 117 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,100 Could you take us through what we've received where they come from and 118 00:07:43,100 --> 00:07:44,700 what's the happened with them? 119 00:07:44,700 --> 00:07:48,200 Well, this was in a sense kind of personal for me because the 120 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,800 pioneering missionary in Central America and specifically in Guatemala 121 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,900 at first and then opening Ministries in other areas like Honduras and 122 00:07:56,900 --> 00:08:00,700 El Salvador and and so forth but the pioneering missionary was a man 123 00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:01,300 by the name of Robert. 124 00:08:01,300 --> 00:08:06,700 Gussack. And he went to Guatemala right after the war right after the 125 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:07,600 second war he was 126 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:12,100 God called by our board permissions to go in begin and set up the 127 00:08:12,100 --> 00:08:13,200 mission work in Guatemala. 128 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,700 He was quite a he was like a typical old school in Missouri guy 129 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:21,600 hard-working, you know, didn't I didn't I lay around my she was 130 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:27,500 working very hard, but he was also a thinker and he had studied 131 00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:34,500 Mission, you know, philosophy or Missiology or Mission Theory and 132 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:35,200 read a lot. 133 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,790 He was just a voracious reader and so he been in Guatemala, like I say 134 00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:46,700 establishing the mission there later on he was in the United States 135 00:08:46,700 --> 00:08:52,800 and toward the end of his life was in San Diego. But he was like two 136 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,200 generations ahead of me in the mission field and then so between him 137 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,800 and me there's another Pastor Gary McClure who was a good friend of 138 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:01,600 Robert Gussack. 139 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,100 And so when Robert Gussack passed away all of his library in his 140 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:07,200 archives and he get kept very 141 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,100 careful archives with his entire life. 142 00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:13,100 All of those things were passed on to the McClure's who live in 143 00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:18,400 Tucson, Arizona and they've been holding this stuff in a storage place 144 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:23,900 for a long time and paying, you know. And finally Gary came up here for 145 00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:28,600 the 50th anniversary of his graduation from the Seminary that was in 146 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:29,600 2019. 147 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,200 We started talking about these things and work with a historical 148 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,300 Institute and the library and thought you know, let's we can receive 149 00:09:37,300 --> 00:09:38,800 those materials here. 150 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,900 I didn't know how much it was going to be. 151 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:46,900 So it turned out there were seven pallets of stuff. With all the archives and all 152 00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:47,300 the books. 153 00:09:47,300 --> 00:09:48,400 Fortunately 154 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:53,400 the books are all cataloged or they're all there's a spreadsheet of 155 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,300 which books are in which box and 156 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:59,400 so that they did that before they brought him up here, which was very 157 00:09:59,400 --> 00:09:59,900 very helpful. 158 00:09:59,900 --> 00:10:05,600 So all of the archives stuff, you know like the files and things like 159 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:05,700 that. 160 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:07,500 We took over to Historic, 161 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,100 Historical Institute, and I don't know where they put them yet. 162 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:14,500 That was one of my questions. An Administrator, where 163 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:17,100 do you put 7 pallets of a books and writings? 164 00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:19,900 Well, we unloaded them in the basement Loeber 165 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:23,700 and then we took the books there in a room and Loeber in the basement 166 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:28,100 of that building and the pallets three or four pallets of the archives 167 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:31,300 were were hauled over and put on the loading dock at the Historical . 168 00:10:31,300 --> 00:10:36,200 And so and so my hope is getting a sabbatical in the future to spend 169 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,200 some time sorting through some of those things and maybe producing a 170 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,300 couple of articles about Robert Gussack. To share with our audience 171 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:50,100 the Concordia Historical Institute called CHI for short is on the 172 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:51,400 campus of our seminary. 173 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,100 In fact, it's located right across from our library, which is very 174 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:56,500 convenient. 175 00:10:58,300 --> 00:11:02,800 And we cooperate with one another as well as we are able the 176 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:03,200 CHI 177 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,400 is an arm of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, but they're 178 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,800 located on our campus so that it's a natural thing. 179 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,800 What's the nature of these writings and and books? You know the 180 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,800 library inherits books all the time, which they often don't have need 181 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:20,000 for. 182 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,700 Is there something special about these books and then what are the 183 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:25,000 writings? 184 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,700 He had a collection of books so he didn't have some rare books. 185 00:11:30,700 --> 00:11:34,500 And in fact, we were notified when they sent the stuff to watch out 186 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:40,200 for this one box that had a German Psalter and we thought the 187 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,500 publication date was 1589 that is actually 1582. 188 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:51,200 And so when I found that that German Psalter it was actually commentary 189 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,500 on the Psalms by Selnecker. 190 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:58,000 I took it over to our rare book room and Bruce Durazzi 191 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,200 there was able to examine it and discover. 192 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:02,900 it's quite interesting. 193 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:08,200 If I can just say here this was printed in 1582. 194 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:14,000 And he said the best clue to the providence of this copy is the 195 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:20,400 monogram stamped on the front cover GVK ZW and then the date 1589. He 196 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:26,300 assumes 1589 was when it was put in the library of this of this person 197 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:32,100 and he thinks and he's pretty sure that these are the initials of 198 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:34,200 Gord Georg van 199 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:40,000 Khunheim a minor Prussian and Noble and husband of Martin Luther's 200 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,100 daughter Marguerite. Wow. So this, 201 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:47,900 yeah, and he thinks that the last two letters on the front cover would 202 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:51,200 probably mean Tzu-wei Lau, which is his birthplace. 203 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,200 He's pretty sure that that's the Providence of this. 204 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,100 Whats really interesting is now to look at the marginalia 205 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,600 in it and see what things have been marked. Marginalia meaning? 206 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,600 Notes that people put in the margin in that that sort of thing and so 207 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:11,000 it's it's quite an interesting piece to have added that the kind of 208 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,500 thing I was expecting Gussack's library, but but it was there. 209 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:18,400 There's some other older books as well, but this was probably the most 210 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,600 interesting really in many ways. 211 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:28,200 I might mention that we're glad that you listen. 212 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,800 We hope that you share Word and Work with other people and and get 213 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,800 them to tune in. In one of our upcoming episodes, 214 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,400 the date is not scheduled yet, 215 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:39,300 we're going to have Dr. 216 00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:44,000 Durazzi who takes care of our rare book room, and then that'll be a 217 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,000 maybe dusty but an interesting experience. 218 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,400 What's the nature of the other books that had we have received? Well there's 219 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,300 he had books are quite a few. 220 00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:56,800 There's about 10 boxes of books in German. 221 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,000 There's probably four or five books a boxes of books in Portuguese. 222 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,300 There's I think about 223 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,900 10 or 15 boxes of books in Spanish cuz he worked in Latin America most 224 00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:12,600 of his career. Excuse me did Germans settle in Guatemala? 225 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:13,400 Yes. 226 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,900 In fact the very first mission work in Guatemala when Gussack went 227 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:22,600 there was actually there was a three-fold call if you will because we 228 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:29,700 received some people from the city of Puerto Barrios on the Gulf Coast 229 00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:30,900 the Gulf of Mexico Coast. 230 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:34,800 They had requested the Missouri Synod to come there were some people 231 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,000 in the city of Cicopapa who had come across from Lutheran 232 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:43,700 materials catechisms and so forth and wrote to a Reverend Harry Smith 233 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:47,800 who had a Evangelical Lutheran bookstore in Spanish. 234 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:54,300 We have a pastor in in in the Metroplex Reverend Harry Smith just a 235 00:14:54,300 --> 00:15:01,600 little. But anyway this pastor these people in Cicopapa wrote a letter to him asking for 236 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,100 some more copies of the catechism or something and then he 237 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,100 forwarded this information to our mission board. And then interestingly 238 00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:13,300 there were some German Guatemalans who had during the Second World 239 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:17,200 War had been exported and so they were either going to be sent to 240 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,500 Germany or to a concentration camp in the United States. 241 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:26,000 And so these where the males the men and there was a man by the name 242 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,900 of Martin Kinitch and he was sent to a concentration camp. 243 00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:36,000 I guess you can call it a work camp in North Dakota and when he was 244 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:42,100 there during the war he was ministered to buy a Missouri Synod pastor, 245 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:42,800 local Pastor. 246 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,900 So the local pastors would go into these camps and minister to the 247 00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:51,600 German people there. A lot of them were probably brought from Germany 248 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,900 or prisoners of War by their case 249 00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:59,000 it was simply a place to as it was in those days, you know concentrate 250 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,400 anybody that they thought could be a threat. And Martin Kinish was not at all a 251 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:10,500 Nazi sympathizer or anything but anyway, so when he went back to 252 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:14,300 Guatemala, he also requested the Missouri Synod would send a 253 00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:14,800 missionaries. 254 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,600 So that's what Robert Gussack that was his first charge to work with 255 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:19,400 those three groups. 256 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,400 So he did German and Spanish. 257 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,900 So the German books were not not just old theological 258 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:27,500 interest. 259 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:30,800 I mean, it was relevant to his ministry and he would have been fluent 260 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,800 in German and Spanish. 261 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:38,300 I interrupted you when you were describing the nature of the other 262 00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:38,800 books. Well some of the things 263 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,900 I was looking for in since we have the list and we know which books 264 00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:48,000 are in which box and we have a Excel spreadsheet you can do a search 265 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,400 but I knew that Robert Gussack was very influenced by the writings 266 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,400 that we're coming from in those days what was called the world 267 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,600 Dominion Press. So they they were just articles about missions and 268 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,600 Mission Theory and what's going on in different parts of the world. 269 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:08,500 with Mission. But one of the books that Gussack said that was highly 270 00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:13,200 influential for him was this book by John Richie called the Indigenous 271 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,200 Church in Peru, and I was really searching for that because I knew it 272 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,590 was influential to him. I seen other copies and we have a copy in our 273 00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:25,300 own library, but I wanted to see his copy and so sure enough 274 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:26,000 I found it. 275 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,400 It's very very delicate. 276 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:34,200 But I just think it's interesting to see what he's underlined here in 277 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,200 this book, you know. Just kind of see what was what was interesting 278 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,800 to him at the time. This book by the way 279 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,200 I think he added to his Library yeah in 1949, 280 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,700 It's got a date in here. 281 00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:48,800 So although it was written in the 1930s. 282 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:54,200 I had written an article for the Concordia Historical Institute 283 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:55,100 Quarterly about 284 00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:57,100 Oh, man 285 00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:58,800 yeah, 25 years ago 286 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,900 about Robert Gussack and it was published. And I knew that 287 00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:07,100 that from my studies that he was influenced by this so 288 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:11,500 I just want to see his his original copy that he used when he was 289 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:12,700 going to developing his own thinking. 290 00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:14,500 So that's the kind of stuff 291 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:19,400 you know that most interesting to me anything with any marginalia any 292 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,600 comments or notes. 293 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,000 What we want to do is send those over the Historical Institute they will 294 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,900 keep those other books will have to be gone through by the library 295 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:33,200 staff and like you said, there's I'm sure will be many that you know 296 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,000 that we'll just have to give away or something and some may be useful 297 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,200 to keep in our library. Now do I understand that we have also received 298 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,300 some of his personal writings? 299 00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:47,500 We have all of his all of his files all of his letters 300 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:48,300 and that sort of thing. 301 00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:51,800 Yeah, I've got I've got 302 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,100 copies of some of the stuff that he wrote but I've also seen some of 303 00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:58,900 the more original drafts in that sort of thing in those files, yeah. 304 00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:04,800 So you have a sabbatical coming up and in first of all explain to us, 305 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:13,200 what is sabbatical is? A sabbatical is a period of time at least amongst our faculty here where they can spend some time with a 306 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,100 special research project or some other kind of service that they might 307 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:17,400 do. 308 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:23,800 So after 6 years of service one could request a 1/2 of your sabbatical 309 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,800 and that's what I've done. 310 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,500 I mean, I've been actually between the two faculty serving for 15 311 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:29,900 years. 312 00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:34,300 I've never taken a sabbatical before but. The two faculties Concordia Theological 313 00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:39,100 Seminary Fort Wayne and then us. It supposed to count. 314 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:46,100 So anyways, I requested a sabbatical and then during that time I want 315 00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:49,800 to go over there and spend some time going through Gussack's stuff and 316 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,600 then there's another really important 317 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:58,500 figure in LCMS Mission history in the 20th century and that is Henry 318 00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:01,900 Nau and I want to study I want to study and do some more research 319 00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:05,800 about him and his impact. 320 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:10,700 He was president of the Immanuel Lutheran College in Greensboro North 321 00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:16,500 Carolina for 25 years. Was the pioneering missionary who started the 322 00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:23,300 work in Nigeria of the Synodical conference in those days and was a 323 00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:26,400 missionary on two different occasions occasions to India did a lot of 324 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:26,700 other stuff. 325 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:28,300 I can tell you a lot more about him. 326 00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:30,800 Well, we're going to want to hear more of this. 327 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,600 We're going to take a short break Mission work is important to us at 328 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,600 Concordia Seminary. Mission work is important to you 329 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,700 I trust it's what I Lord Jesus told us to do. Stay with us 330 00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:42,600 we'll be right back. 331 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,300 Concordia Seminary st. 332 00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:50,100 Louis provides continuing education resources for pastors and lay 333 00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:55,200 people to discover all the Concordia Seminary has for you visit us on 334 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,700 the web at CSL. 335 00:20:57,700 --> 00:20:58,500 EDU. 336 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,200 Welcome back to Word and Work an Intersection. 337 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,300 I'm Dale Meyer today our guest has Dr. 338 00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:12,800 Douglas Rutt Provost here Concordia Seminary and you have quite a 339 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:18,300 history in in Mission and in theological education. Before we went on 340 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:20,100 the break you explained to us 341 00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:23,900 what a sabbatical is and you mentioned that you want to work with the 342 00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:36,200 papers of also a missionary Gussack and Henry Nau. 343 00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:44,000 As you do this you expect to write articles publish a book? 344 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:50,700 What do you hope to come out of the sabbatical. Well one of the ideas I think in nregards to Robert Gussack, maybe a 345 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:54,900 article or two just done some of the you know, some of his thinking 346 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:59,000 things that I'll learn from looking through some of those materials\. 347 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:06,900 But with regards to Henry Nau, well, it's there's a there's a 348 00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:10,400 biography that has been published about him which is which is quite I 349 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:11,100 find it quite interesting. 350 00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:16,000 But anytime you talking about an LCMS missionary who has had a 351 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,200 biography written about him 352 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,500 it's pretty interesting to me just the way I am I guess. But he he's a 353 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:24,900 very interesting guy grew a born in Germany 354 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:30,100 came to the United States in the early around 1900 or little bit 355 00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:34,400 after and he came to the United States to make a career as a gambler 356 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,700 as a professional Gambler. 357 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:37,200 He was quite a character. 358 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:42,700 At the at the when he came into New York, he was pretty much down and 359 00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:44,500 out and was feeling very depressed 360 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,700 and was about ready to even plunge, you know off one of the bridges or 361 00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:51,900 something. But some LCMS missionaries were working in New York 362 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:56,400 welcoming the the immigrants and especially those from Germany and so 363 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,800 a couple of pastors found him brought brought him into their home. 364 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:07,400 Obviously discovered that he was very gifted very intelligent and in 365 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,800 the short order they sent him here to St. 366 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:10,700 Louis to study theology. 367 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:16,500 So he studied only a year-and-a-half and then he was considered ready 368 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:20,300 to go was sent to India as a missionary. 369 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,700 And so he worked in India for seven eight years took a sabbatical to 370 00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:27,200 go and went back home to Germany. 371 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,900 And while he was home. 372 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:33,000 The first world war broke out and he got conscripted into the German 373 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:33,500 army. Wow. 374 00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:39,800 So after the war was over he showed up here in St. 375 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,600 Louis again at the doorstep of the Seminary and said, well, what now? 376 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,500 Where do you want to send me? 377 00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:50,300 They sent him down to New Orleans to work among African-Americans. That 378 00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:55,700 was still during President Pieper's time. That would have been during his time I imagine, yeah. And then from 379 00:23:55,700 --> 00:24:00,700 there he was sent to Greensboro to be the president of the Lutheran 380 00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:05,400 I'm sorry Immanuel Lutheran College historically black college operated 381 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,200 by our church body and he was there for 25 years. 382 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,100 He continued to be interested in missions. 383 00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:17,100 And as I said, he he was asked by the mission board to spend 18-months 384 00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:20,800 setting up the mission work in Nigeria, which is a whole nother story. 385 00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:27,400 That contact came because of student from Nigeria came to study at 386 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,800 Immanuel Lutheran College and then invited the LCMS to come back to 387 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,400 his area of Nigeria. 388 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,700 And so that's that kind of started that way and he he went and he he 389 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:44,300 wrote a book he was only in Africa for 18 months. 390 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,800 But he wrote a book we moved to Africa which has been republished. 391 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,400 I wrote a foreword for it. 392 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:55,800 And in those 18 months, I have to say he learned more about the 393 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,200 Nigerian culture 394 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,600 that a lot of people today don't learn in life time of mission service 395 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,000 somewhere. 396 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,400 It was just amazing all of the things that he observed about. 397 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,600 You know, what the culture was like in this village where he was 398 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:15,200 living with his wife and you know, they also in his thoughts on making 399 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,700 the gospel known for those people. 400 00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:20,300 So that's one of the interesting things I assume about Mission work and 401 00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:23,400 I haven't done Mission working in the traditional sense. 402 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,400 But hey every Parish Pastor is as a missionary when you get to know a 403 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,700 different culture you start to see your own culture with different 404 00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:32,600 eyes, correct? That's true oh yeah. 405 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:33,700 Definitely. 406 00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:38,600 I think should I mention I served a parish in southern Minnesota for 407 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:44,400 for three and a half years and it was literally literally St. 408 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,200 John's in the corn 409 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:50,200 field. We're actually like out in the middle of a crossroads and in a 410 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,100 township, but I think the things that I learned about serving 411 00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:58,000 cross-culturally for example in Latin America, really helped me 412 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:04,300 also learn how to how to understand and appreciate the the people out 413 00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:07,100 there in the country, you know, the farmers basically with that were 414 00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:08,200 part of our congregation. 415 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,500 So yeah. So you have obviously recent very recent Mission experience. 416 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:17,800 I would guess that there have been some changes in Mission work since 417 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:24,000 the time of Nau and Gussack. Gussack. 418 00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:34,500 Okay retired guy. Changes in Mission over over these many decades? In 419 00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:39,500 those days even like when Gussack went you went to Latin to Latin 420 00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:43,200 America and you were basically the only mode of communicating really 421 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,100 was maybe via telegram or a letter. It wasn't you 422 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:50,800 were cut off from your family basically except for letters 423 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:51,900 that would take a long time. 424 00:26:51,900 --> 00:26:57,100 And even when we first went to the mission field in 1983, it would 425 00:26:57,100 --> 00:26:57,900 take for a letter, 426 00:26:57,900 --> 00:26:59,300 there was no email or anything 427 00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:04,500 then there was no internet but it would take if you wrote a letter you 428 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,800 could expect a reply to receive the reply in a month. 429 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,600 So if you wrote a letter to my family or let's say to the Mission Board 430 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,200 up here in St. 431 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,100 Louis, you would expect you to wait a month to get your reply because 432 00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:18,800 it took about two weeks with a letter to get there and then about two 433 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,200 weeks to get back. A calling on the phone was once in a while and 434 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,800 necessary but extremely expensive. It was about two 435 00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:29,800 dollars a minute to make a phone call in those days to the United 436 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,800 States. And on top of that you usually had to dial for about two hours 437 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,200 before the phone call would ever go through you just keep dialing and 438 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:43,100 dialing until finally the call will connect. So in some 439 00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:43,500 ways 440 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:48,300 I think that helped us because we weren't so immersed in our American 441 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:50,600 culture like missionaries are today. 442 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,800 So the missionary and the internet and all of that is a real 443 00:27:53,800 --> 00:28:00,000 blessing but at the same time these these missionaries they can you 444 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,000 walk into their house and you'd think they were you just don't even 445 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,400 realize that you're not in the United States because they have you 446 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,300 know, the news shows from the United States have all the television 447 00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:11,400 access from the United States. 448 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,000 They have Face Time and Zoom and all those other things. 449 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000 they can talk to their family continuously. 450 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,500 The mission board folks here are able to send directives, you know, 451 00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:25,200 all the time everyday or whatever. 452 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:25,800 You know 453 00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:31,100 and so in the old days you had to missionaries had to think for 454 00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:32,800 themselves and decide what they're going to do. 455 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,100 And so it's just changed so much because of the communication and the 456 00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:42,700 travel never thought about traveling much when when we were on the 457 00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:45,300 mission field, you're not even back to the United States. 458 00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:49,900 It was just too expensive and now. Do mission fields today 459 00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:55,100 I assume that they get the same communication. 460 00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:59,200 They have a lot of American life or Pop Culture. 461 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,500 I mean is that true? Well it is true and I think especially among 462 00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:05,100 the younger generation. 463 00:29:05,100 --> 00:29:08,400 There's a I wrote an article once for Lutheran Hour called digital 464 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:14,300 Nomads, and it really talks about younger Generations that are totally 465 00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:17,500 connected via their devices. 466 00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:23,500 And so they do get in are impacted by popular culture quite a bit mass 467 00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:24,900 media culture and that sort of thing. 468 00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:30,600 There still there's still different cultures and they 469 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,300 still hold to a lot of their traditional values that they learn from 470 00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:36,800 their families, but they're also exposed to quite a bit of the western 471 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,000 culture that without a doubt. 472 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,500 Yeah, that probably cuts both ways. 473 00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:44,400 What are the major challenges in in Mission today? 474 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,400 And maybe that's too general a question maybe specific to every 475 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,100 country but 476 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:50,800 Challenges. 477 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,400 Yeah, well, I think there's 478 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:56,200 There's a there's a couple of challenges. One 479 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,400 I believe in in this is maybe just an old former missionary speaking, 480 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,800 but then what I talked about, you know the ability to stay so 481 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,000 connected to back home. 482 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,700 It makes it more difficult for you to become immersed in the local 483 00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:10,900 culture. 484 00:30:10,900 --> 00:30:15,700 I think that really is different than what it was when when we were on 485 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:16,000 the field. 486 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,700 All of our friends everything we did our television 487 00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:21,400 we had three channels on television. 488 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,300 They were all in Spanish and you know, we just had to become a part of 489 00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:29,500 that culture and I think it's a little bit more difficult to get 490 00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:30,400 immersed like that. 491 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,900 That's one challenge then of course, there's security concerns in 492 00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:40,900 different places and countries. Some places you have you had some 493 00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:45,000 threats and missionaries would have to return home because it's not safe 494 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:45,500 anymore. 495 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:51,300 Some of the places even like Guatemala for example today is there's a 496 00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:52,900 lot of crime and you know, what, 497 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,500 in many ways depending on where you're living in Guatemala City, 498 00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:59,100 it could be very dangerous and all that sort of thing. 499 00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:02,700 Although there are still plenty of missionaries living and working in 500 00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:06,300 those countries. When you went to Guatemala and when Gussack. 501 00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:10,800 Did I pronounce it right now? Yes. See I'm learning Gussack. When he went down 502 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:11,200 there 503 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,200 talk about learning Spanish. 504 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,500 Did you learn it there? 505 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:15,600 Did you learn it ahead of time? 506 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:16,800 How did how does that work? 507 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,100 Well, yeah 508 00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:19,800 that was that's a good question. 509 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,500 We my wife and studied Spanish in high school. 510 00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:26,900 I never said I didn't know if I'd ever learn a new language learning a 511 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:28,200 language other than English. 512 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,800 I was just seem so mysterious that me how you'd go about doing that. 513 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:37,100 But when I was in the Seminary there was a fellow student who had been 514 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:41,400 a professor of Spanish at at the University of Wisconsin. 515 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,000 Then he decided to go to Seminary leveraged him to teach 516 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:52,300 Spanish classes and we had a pretty interesting and vigorous or 517 00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:52,800 rigorous, 518 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:53,300 I would say 519 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,600 Spanish program. So we took finally by second year 520 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,400 he talked me into start, you know starting to study Spanish, Deborah 521 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,300 and I went. Well then a few months later Mission Board people came on 522 00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:09,800 campus and they said would you like to go out of the vicarage overseas 523 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,400 which we knew then that was going to be in somewhere in Latin America 524 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:13,700 and we said 525 00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:16,100 so sure. That was a two-year commitment. 526 00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:20,500 So as soon as we got to Guatemala, we hooked up with a Spanish 527 00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:24,700 language teacher and spent six months studying with him. 528 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:27,100 He would study 3 hours in the morning. Onsite? 529 00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:27,600 Yep. Most of the time 530 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,300 he would have you come to our home and he'd study like Deborah would 531 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,000 study for 3 hours a day and I would study for 3 hours a day. Once in a 532 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,700 while one of us would travel to the town where he lived and just kind 533 00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:43,100 of hang out with him there and we just studied and studied and he 534 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:46,200 started out speaking English the first day. 535 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:52,000 He spoke maybe 10 minutes and English to us and we never spoken 536 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:52,200 English 537 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,700 after that. And because he just have to use it you learn 538 00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:56,800 it. 539 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,900 That must have been a challenging time then 540 00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:04,200 when Deborah had to go to the grocery store or or you did whatever 541 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,200 Mission work you did. 542 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,900 Yeah, I didn't I didn't they really wanted me to focus on the 543 00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:09,100 language. 544 00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:13,800 But we did we did that get Carlos our language instructor 545 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,100 he would take us to the stores. 546 00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:18,800 He would take me to get my car fixed and you know, that's where I 547 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:19,800 learned of the car parts. 548 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,600 We learned the names of the fruits and vegetables and the different 549 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,900 kinds of food that you can buy. 550 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:28,900 So yeah, it was by having him there with us 551 00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:32,600 he helped us learn the kinds of things that we are going to need for daily 552 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:33,200 living as well. 553 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,500 How did Gussack learn? 554 00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:38,300 That's a very good question. 555 00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:41,800 I do know this is this will be interesting to you. 556 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,600 He had done a vicarage in Indianapolis something happened. 557 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,700 I don't know if he got ill or for some reason he had to cut that Vicarage 558 00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:55,000 short so he came back to Seminary and they sent him on another 559 00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:02,000 vicarage to work with Andrew Melendez who I think was in San Antonio, 560 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:09,400 Texas at the time. Speaker of the Spanish Lutheran Hour. Right. Spanish Lutheran Hour. Who 561 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,000 I visited he was in the 562 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,500 Altenheim, what did they what's the proper name of it in Arlington 563 00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:20,690 Heights the long-term care facility nursing home. 564 00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:21,190 Yeah. 565 00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:25,500 I wish I would have taken the opportunity to go in and meet him before 566 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:26,100 he passed away. 567 00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:31,190 But so then he went to a congregation in Chilton, Wisconsin. 568 00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:35,500 And that was out of that congregation that he was called since he had 569 00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:37,400 had this experience in Spanish. 570 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,000 He was called out of that congregation to go down to open up the 571 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:41,800 mission work in Guatemala. 572 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:50,900 How do how do we Concordia Seminary prepare students for Mission and 573 00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:54,500 end do we prepare missionaries in our day and age? 574 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:01,700 Well we of course in the new curriculum try to make Mission a part of 575 00:35:01,700 --> 00:35:07,400 everything that we do and for example the new curriculum includes this 576 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,500 class but I'm teaching right now the church The Pastor and Church in 577 00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:16,000 Mission. And that's where we we try to help the students see how they 578 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,300 can create and build a missionary a mindset in the congregation so they 579 00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:24,100 may be willing to they made me serving or also think for themselves 580 00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:27,400 about the possibility of serving on the mission field. So we work 581 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,300 together with the mission staff here at the International Center of 582 00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:36,700 our church and they've identified what they believe are the 583 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:40,800 characteristics of someone who is successful if you will on the 584 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,400 mission field. And by successful, I mean, we'll stay on the field and 585 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:49,100 not want to come home right away. And so through a lot of the testing 586 00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:52,500 that we do here with new students sort of a a self-assessment. 587 00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:55,800 That's that's done on all the students 588 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,800 so they can kind of understand themselves better. 589 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,200 But through that testing. 590 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,400 We also can see what are the characteristics that might mean that this 591 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:09,900 man or woman would be would be good for overseas or cross-cultural 592 00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:14,900 Ministry. And that reminds me of a question was put to 593 00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:16,500 me a number of times that I was President. 594 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:20,800 I'd be out traveling someplace in the United States speaking. 595 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:26,900 And older people would say how many students is the Seminary 596 00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:30,800 sending into the mission field? And at that time I said none. 597 00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:37,300 And they were shocked and I said, how come you're not sending any I 598 00:36:37,300 --> 00:36:39,700 said the church has to ask for them. 599 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:44,200 You know, we're not the mission sending institution. 600 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,500 That's the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod but that has changed has 601 00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:48,600 it? 602 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,300 Well, I think at its had as its had it in the history we've 603 00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:56,400 had times when we've had a lot more missionaries our Church body, 604 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,900 I mean, serving around the world and a bigger demand for personnel 605 00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:05,600 and I would say that one of the things that the mission staff the 606 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,200 executive director is a good friend of mine Rev. Dan McMiller. 607 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:17,100 They have discovered that they have the best experience with students 608 00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:21,100 coming right from Seminary to go to the mission field. Rather than for 609 00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:21,400 a while 610 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,300 they were experimenting and calling people who had some years of 611 00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:27,800 experience in the parish, but he feels that the ones that really 612 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,200 last on the field or those that probably go right from Seminary. You 613 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:32,300 know, 614 00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:36,500 maybe a younger age even and are able more able to learn the foreign 615 00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:36,800 language. 616 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:41,000 I wouldn't I wouldn't even want to try to learn a new language, 617 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:41,600 now. So if any of you in the audience 618 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:47,900 asked me that question over the years. 619 00:37:47,900 --> 00:37:51,300 We are sending them them now. 620 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,300 But we all know that that the United States is a mission to field. 621 00:37:55,300 --> 00:38:03,000 There is a track in our curriculum called Mission planting a church 622 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,600 planting, excuse me. 623 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:10,400 What is that Doug? Well that again part of that comes from the the the 624 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,300 testing that they do personality-wise and that sort of thing as students 625 00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:20,600 to identify those who would maybe be good at that kind of work because 626 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,100 you have to you have to have certain personality characteristics 627 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:29,300 to be a successful Church planter. You have to be a self-starter starter. 628 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:34,800 You have to probably be pretty energetic and well-organized and things 629 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:35,100 like that. 630 00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:40,700 So it it puts students into a track and then they take some extra 631 00:38:40,700 --> 00:38:45,400 classes in preparation for for serving as a church planter. 632 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,600 I wanted to mention to the service of women. 633 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,400 So in our Deaconess program they also are we on 634 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,300 send deaconesses to overseas Mission sites as well. 635 00:38:56,300 --> 00:39:00,400 And I would think that a deaconesses just because of who she is can do 636 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,900 some things that a a male missionary cannot. 637 00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:04,600 Oh, that's true. 638 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,700 And especially in some parts of the world where it's just not normal 639 00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:11,500 for a man to spend, you know 640 00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:16,200 time with women that aren't that isn't isn't his wife or family 641 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:16,700 member. 642 00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:22,600 So yeah and the Deaconess traditionally I would say in in Mission work 643 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,200 almost really since the very beginning of the church women have played 644 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:27,200 a very important role. 645 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,800 And so I think that right now I couldn't tell you how many deaconesses 646 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:32,200 we have 647 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,800 but we have a lot of Deaconess was that are serving in Mission fields 648 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,000 in different parts of the world. And that's also true in our 649 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,900 ethnic programs to Center for Hispanic Studies a Ethnic Immigrant 650 00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:46,400 Institute of Theology where deaconesses 651 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,000 do marvelous works in Ministry. To wrap up 652 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,500 let me ask you this question just hold forth for a minute or so about 653 00:39:56,500 --> 00:40:00,900 the role of Concordia Seminary in our Lord's mission to the world. 654 00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:08,200 Well, thanks and you know, I recently published an article on the on 655 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:13,200 the relationship between Mission and Theological education and 656 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,600 obviously Christ has commanded that we would teach all things you know. 657 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,200 Make disciples of all nations teaching them to observe everything 658 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:27,800 I have commanded you. Which to me means the full counsel of God that we 659 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:28,500 have in his Word. 660 00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:32,800 And so a theological education and well-prepared pastors and 661 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,300 deaconesses is very important for the mission extremely important. 662 00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:38,500 I think the two things go hand-in-hand. 663 00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:42,700 Martin Luther in some ways. 664 00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:47,400 really was a great missionary because he was teaching students that 665 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,300 came from all around Europe to study there at Wittenberg. 666 00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:55,000 And so you do a lot of his ideas and his teaching and his emphasis on 667 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,700 the gospel was disseminated by those students who went out and 668 00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:00,900 it's same thing is true here. 669 00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:02,100 I mean our students we got great 670 00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:04,100 students Henry Nau was one of them 671 00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:10,300 Robert Gussack was another one many many great figures that are in our 672 00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:12,000 own mission history, very positive. 673 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,900 I think stories that that I think need to be told more than what they 674 00:41:16,900 --> 00:41:17,400 are right now. 675 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:18,000 That's great. 676 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,000 We look forward to here telling the stories and and I want you to know 677 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,000 and you can tell your wife and your family the one of the greatest 678 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,900 honors in in my Ministry has been working with you these last years. 679 00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:32,500 And I want to thank you are audience for being with us today as well. 680 00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:38,800 May the intersection of Word and Work be busy and a blessing on your 681 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:39,200 corner.