WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:27.300 Hello and welcome to Word and Work an Intersection. 2 00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:28.900 I'm your host Dale Meyer. 3 00:00:28.900 --> 00:00:31.500 This hour will talk with Dr. 4 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:32.600 Phil Penhallegon. 5 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:33.300 Dr. 6 00:00:33.300 --> 00:00:37.000 Penhallegon is a professor of Exegetical Theology here at Concordia 7 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:42.900 Seminary. His areas of Interest are the books of Esther and Nehemiah as 8 00:00:42.900 --> 00:00:44.800 well as Biblical Hebrew and Greek. 9 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:51.800 And this Academic Year 2020 and 2021 is his first year here on the 10 00:00:51.800 --> 00:00:53.300 faculty of our Seminary. 11 00:00:53.300 --> 00:00:54.700 Welcome Phil. 12 00:00:54.700 --> 00:00:55.500 Thank you. 13 00:00:55.500 --> 00:00:56.600 Welcome to Saint Louis. 14 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:59.400 Welcome to Concordia Seminary. How long you been here? 15 00:00:59.400 --> 00:01:03.700 Seven weeks, 8 weeks. 7 weeks. 16 00:01:03.700 --> 00:01:07.000 How are how are you finding both the Seminary and the St. 17 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:12.400 Louis area? Well it's a joy to back at the Seminary, lot of fun. St. 18 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:13.500 Louis has always been great. 19 00:01:13.500 --> 00:01:17.600 I'd not a real fan of heat and humidity, but that has gone away in the 20 00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:18.100 last couple weeks. 21 00:01:18.100 --> 00:01:21.500 So now we're really enjoying it with our windows open. Your windows 22 00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:25.300 open. You said, one of your neighbors made a remark about your windows 23 00:01:25.300 --> 00:01:27.200 being open. Yeah, we're from Michigan 24 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:28.300 we open our Windows there. 25 00:01:28.300 --> 00:01:30.700 Nobody else on the street here opens their windows. 26 00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:34.800 Yeah. That's true Diane and I have taken the screens off our 27 00:01:34.800 --> 00:01:37.400 Windows because we have never open them. 28 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:38.600 We never open them. 29 00:01:38.600 --> 00:01:39.000 Yeah. 30 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.600 Yeah, just a curiosity. 31 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:45.500 What's the ethnic background of your last name? 32 00:01:45.500 --> 00:01:55.300 Gibbs always used to say I was his favorite German student, no. Cornish. Cornwall, England the 33 00:01:55.300 --> 00:01:57.100 tip sticks out. Pirates of Penzance 34 00:01:57.100 --> 00:02:01.900 the the musical is Penzance is the tip of Cornwall. 35 00:02:01.900 --> 00:02:06.700 So my my dad's relatives were copper miners in the UP who came from 36 00:02:06.700 --> 00:02:08.500 Cornwall who were tin miners there. 37 00:02:08.500 --> 00:02:16.900 So you got an unforgettable last night now great. Another little tidbit 38 00:02:16.900 --> 00:02:22.200 as we as we get into today's program is you were the last professor 39 00:02:23.200 --> 00:02:37.200 called under the regime of Dale Meyer. We went through and extensive process. And then you left. And then I left. But that is an ongoing source of pride for me that that 40 00:02:37.200 --> 00:02:42.100 we were able to call you before I left for retirement and so. Thank you. 41 00:02:42.100 --> 00:02:47.400 And I will always have some personal connection with you 42 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:52.200 even if though I'm around just now and then on campus. So tell us about 43 00:02:52.200 --> 00:02:52.900 your family. 44 00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:56.500 My wife is Gretchen. 45 00:02:56.500 --> 00:02:58.800 We've been married 28 years. 46 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:01.200 We're halfway through year 29. 47 00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:06.300 She is teaching here in the Kirkwood School District right now as a 48 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:06.800 teaching assistant. 49 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:13.600 She's trained in language arts and especially in English language 50 00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:15.200 learning currently. 51 00:03:15.200 --> 00:03:19.100 She's not working in in that specifically but might get back into that 52 00:03:19.100 --> 00:03:20.500 as soon as we get settled here. 53 00:03:21.100 --> 00:03:26.100 Is she Michigander? She is. She grew up a little bit north of Detroit in 54 00:03:26.100 --> 00:03:31.500 Fraser. Fraser is where Ed Weber was that he was vice president 55 00:03:31.500 --> 00:03:34.500 Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod some decades ago. 56 00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:47.200 Yeah. That's her grandfather. Really. So I had lots of very good conversations. I had the privilege of meeting him while he was yet living and lots of great conversations. 57 00:03:47.200 --> 00:03:56.300 He was an unforgettable person definitely, a force to be reckoned with. He served as a pastor and then as Michigan d=District 58 00:03:56.300 --> 00:03:58.600 President and Vice President of the Synod. Right. 59 00:03:58.600 --> 00:04:04.600 I remember him with with fondness to the extent that I got to know 60 00:04:04.600 --> 00:04:04.900 him. 61 00:04:04.900 --> 00:04:07.300 But whoa this is a revelation for our program today. 62 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:11.300 Yeah. You married strategically. No, I had no idea. 63 00:04:11.300 --> 00:04:17.500 You know, I'm one of these non German Lutherans who came into the 64 00:04:17.500 --> 00:04:21.000 Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod from outside grew up in the ALC. 65 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:27.400 When there was such a thing and. My wife did to. College Years that 66 00:04:27.400 --> 00:04:30.900 brought me into the LCMS and transferring from the University of 67 00:04:30.900 --> 00:04:35.200 Michigan and architecture to Concordia College Ann Arbor at the time. 68 00:04:35.200 --> 00:04:41.700 Met Gretchen and married into a Missouri Synod family teachers and 69 00:04:41.700 --> 00:04:43.400 pastors and all of that. 70 00:04:43.400 --> 00:04:45.700 What interested you in the ministry. 71 00:04:46.700 --> 00:04:47.800 Well, 72 00:04:49.700 --> 00:04:52.900 you're going to ask about exegetical theology that would Monday cuz 73 00:04:52.900 --> 00:04:53.900 that's what I do. 74 00:04:53.900 --> 00:04:58.100 And that's what that's what I wanted to study the word. 75 00:04:58.100 --> 00:05:05.700 I was just really adamant about having the time to study the word 76 00:05:05.700 --> 00:05:15.000 deeply. And my years at the University of Michigan I enjoyed them and architecture great but I didn't I just 77 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:16.800 didn't think that's what I wanted to do. 78 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.200 I also found out that many Architects and end up at a firm where they 79 00:05:20.200 --> 00:05:24.500 end up being the stairwell designer or the the bathroom designer and 80 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:29.300 that's not what I had in mind. And then became very involved at the 81 00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:32.600 University Lutheran Chapel Pastor Ed Kraus was there and was a great 82 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:33.200 mentor of mine. 83 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:38.500 Just wanted to study the word. Transferred to Concordia 84 00:05:38.500 --> 00:05:40.400 Ann Arbor knowing I could do that 85 00:05:40.400 --> 00:05:44.300 there. Not sure if I wanted to be a pastor yet. 86 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:47.600 Just exploring and I think even on my Seminary application 87 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.400 I think I even was honest enough to say I'm not quite sure about this 88 00:05:51.400 --> 00:05:53.200 yet, but I want to study the word. 89 00:05:53.200 --> 00:05:58.300 I just need the time to be in its in that depth. And then in my time here was 90 00:05:58.300 --> 00:06:03.100 shaped and formed into someone who wanted them to apply that word to 91 00:06:03.100 --> 00:06:03.500 others. 92 00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:07.400 One of one of the questions that that we prepared for today's program 93 00:06:07.400 --> 00:06:10.400 is to explain exegetical theology to us. 94 00:06:10.400 --> 00:06:14.400 What what does exegetical mean and you set it up nicely. 95 00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:14.900 Yeah. 96 00:06:14.900 --> 00:06:24.200 Well exegetical is doing exactly what I wanted to do. It's to read carefully any sort of literature can be exegeted. Ex a 97 00:06:24.200 --> 00:06:25.600 el omy, delete it out. Right. 98 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:31.100 And so and so the task of an exegete is to read and read very 99 00:06:31.100 --> 00:06:32.400 carefully a text. 100 00:06:32.400 --> 00:06:34.700 And of course in our case were talking about the biblical text. 101 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.100 And so this is the task I wanted to do in this is the task I get to do. 102 00:06:40.100 --> 00:06:46.300 I did it for for 16 years at Ann Arbor helping others learn how to do 103 00:06:46.300 --> 00:06:49.300 this task and now I get to be here and I'm excited to be working with 104 00:06:49.300 --> 00:06:57.000 the with the pastor pastoral candidates and diaconal candidates. Tell us about what you did at Ann 105 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:02.700 Arbor? Yeah. You were a student there but then you were a professor for 16 years. After four 106 00:07:02.700 --> 00:07:07.500 years and Glencoe, Minnesota Good Shepherd Glencoe had the opportunity 107 00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:13.100 was called to Concordia Ann Arbor to teach. And when you're at one of 108 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:17.600 the CUS schools, I'm an exegete but you become a little bit of 109 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:24.000 everything and that's actually quite a blessing it all. But primarily 110 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:29.000 I taught Hebrew and Greek, Old and New Testament and then a few other 111 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:32.800 courses within biblical studies. 112 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:33.700 That might be an interesting tidbit 113 00:07:35.500 --> 00:07:42.400 for our audience. Theology is one but a couple hundred years ago got 114 00:07:42.400 --> 00:07:48.300 divvied up into exegesis ,systematics, practical theology and historical 115 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:48.600 Theology 116 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:53.000 and so we think of those areas. But what you're just saying is in it 117 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:56.400 and I think all of us in the in pastoral Ministry find this out 118 00:07:56.400 --> 00:08:03.600 theology is one. It's the study of the Gospel for people. And the pastor as theologian 119 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:08.300 has to be doing all of them all of them all together at the 120 00:08:08.300 --> 00:08:14.600 same time every week. Just yesterday in in the prophets course had a 121 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:21.000 soapbox moment as I exhorted them to find time to create time. 122 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:26.400 These are my second year students in the prophets to to dig into pick a 123 00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:31.300 prophet or any other book of the of the scriptures and to dig into it. 124 00:08:31.300 --> 00:08:34.700 Even if they're not using it for a current Bible study or 125 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:35.400 current sermon or 126 00:08:35.500 --> 00:08:39.500 sermon series but to do this set aside the time put a note on your 127 00:08:39.500 --> 00:08:45.400 door, you know in the word and teach the congregation. Or even 128 00:08:45.400 --> 00:08:48.600 ask the congregation to exhort you to spend time in the word. 129 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.600 That's that's our task to be in the word and when we're in it, then we 130 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.900 can bring it bring it and apply it to the lives of ourselves and the 131 00:08:56.900 --> 00:09:02.200 people around us. It would seem to me that if you dig deep into a 132 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:09.000 prophet or any other biblical text that has carryover values when you 133 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:13.400 read the other scriptures. Yeah without a doubt. Because you can't go deeply into 134 00:09:13.400 --> 00:09:21.600 everything. No you can't it depends how long your career is. And if we set up this time, we're we're constantly in the 135 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:23.700 scriptures, of course we want to do everything. 136 00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:30.500 But but if we give ourselves that time will will have a depth of 137 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:34.800 knowledge that we could never have if we allow the the 138 00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:41.900 constant demands of the pastoral day to keep us from the word. And 139 00:09:41.900 --> 00:09:48.000 our our task begins and ends in the word and so to exhort the students 140 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:53.300 to recognize that and to plan how they can put this into their time 141 00:09:53.300 --> 00:09:55.600 into their day and to ask their congregations. 142 00:09:55.600 --> 00:10:02.100 I asked my congregation when I got there help me. Help me find ways to 143 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:04.200 to set aside time to be in the word. For me 144 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:04.700 it's morning, 145 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:05.400 I'm a morning person. 146 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:13.400 So some some pretty good study and prayer time. And that's that's hard as he 147 00:10:13.400 --> 00:10:14.100 as you said. 148 00:10:14.100 --> 00:10:15.800 I remember my last congregation 149 00:10:15.800 --> 00:10:20.800 we had Christian day school and school would start it 8:00 8:30, 150 00:10:20.800 --> 00:10:25.200 whatever it was and a lot of the times I want to be there. For sure. And 151 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:26.500 and it was a large congregation. 152 00:10:26.500 --> 00:10:30.800 So the demands of the congregation come at you and then you have your 153 00:10:30.800 --> 00:10:37.500 folks who are hospitalized in in long-term care facilities. Problem here 154 00:10:37.500 --> 00:10:37.900 problem 155 00:10:37.900 --> 00:10:40.700 there all kinds of meetings and it's easy 156 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:46.300 to let study time in the word be put on the margins. 157 00:10:46.300 --> 00:10:47.500 So so that's great. 158 00:10:47.500 --> 00:10:50.700 I hope the students keep what you said in your mind. 159 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:52.700 You said that's a prophet's course. 160 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:58.800 Do you cover all the prophets.We try. The curriculum's very different than when I was 161 00:10:58.800 --> 00:10:59.400 a student here. 162 00:10:59.400 --> 00:11:01.700 So we figured we should straighten it out. 163 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:08.800 So I'm trying to learn the curriculum on the fly here got here just a 164 00:11:08.800 --> 00:11:14.300 couple weeks before things started and so the prophets courses is one of 165 00:11:14.300 --> 00:11:18.500 the seven week half semester courses. Major and minor prophets? 166 00:11:18.500 --> 00:11:22.900 It's called the prophets, right. 167 00:11:22.900 --> 00:11:25.700 We don't do former prophets though. 168 00:11:25.700 --> 00:11:27.700 So we're not doing what what you 169 00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:29.200 and I think of as the historical books. 170 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:32.900 We really are doing. You must be an excellent teacher to cover all of this in seven weeks. I don't know we'll find out. I figure with seven weeks that's more than I got to 171 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.700 spend on them in the Old Testament overview course and that that I 172 00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:46.400 taught regularly in Ann Arbor. 173 00:11:46.400 --> 00:11:55.500 So this for me is is a joy to slow down and to spend time really 174 00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:58.200 digging in the focus of the course is Isaiah. 175 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:03.300 And so you're you're kind of building off of that. 176 00:12:03.300 --> 00:12:05.300 I did Joel and Jonah. 177 00:12:05.300 --> 00:12:06.400 I try to do things chronologically. 178 00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:09.700 It was one of the things that never really happened at least I didn't 179 00:12:09.700 --> 00:12:13.900 recognize it if it did in in my training was walking to the Old 180 00:12:13.900 --> 00:12:17.900 Testament chronologically. And so I got to a point in my life where I 181 00:12:17.900 --> 00:12:18.900 thought okay 182 00:12:18.900 --> 00:12:21.600 I know a lot. I've been 183 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:24.300 I've learned a lot and all the courses that I've taken but I can't 184 00:12:24.300 --> 00:12:30.200 really tell the story from beginning to end of Old Testament in any 185 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.000 sort of sequential manner. 186 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:32.600 I don't know. 187 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:37.100 I don't see the whole big picture. My impression is at least a Lutheran Church, Missouri 188 00:12:37.100 --> 00:12:41.000 Synod problem and perhaps in other denominations too. 189 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.400 I went to Lutheran grade school. 190 00:12:43.400 --> 00:12:44.500 It was wonderful. 191 00:12:44.500 --> 00:12:45.900 We learned this story 192 00:12:45.900 --> 00:12:49.800 we learned his story and we learned about Jonah and Advent we heard 193 00:12:49.800 --> 00:12:51.300 about Isaiah, but how it all fit together 194 00:12:51.300 --> 00:12:57.600 I had no clue. Yeah, I felt that way quite quite late thinking about heading out 195 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:01.400 into the parish and saying I'm not sure I can tell the story. And so that's 196 00:13:01.400 --> 00:13:05.200 actually been has been my theme for 16 years at Ann Arbor. 197 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:06.000 And before that 198 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:10.000 I had the privilege of teaching as a grad student here for those 199 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:13.900 coming in who hadn't taken the Old Testament course or needed need a 200 00:13:13.900 --> 00:13:14.300 refresher. 201 00:13:14.300 --> 00:13:15.000 I thought okay 202 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:15.800 I'm going to teach at the way 203 00:13:15.800 --> 00:13:20.700 I didn't learn it. Like I said I learned a ton along the way, but normally your 204 00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:25.600 Old Testament as you know, broken down Torah, writings, prophets or flip 205 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:30.000 the other two around but rather than doing that a try and do it very 206 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:30.500 chronologically. 207 00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:33.600 And so that's how we do it in the prophets course. And what 208 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:41.400 other courses do you teach? A couple Hebrew Labs. Watching over some of the Vicars who are doing their Hebrew 209 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:46.000 Lab, I think it's great. Could you tell us what it would a lab is? 210 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:53.700 Hebrew lab and then there be Greek labs too what does that mean? So in order to help students 211 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:54.600 continue in the language is right. 212 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.800 We value the biblical languages. Luther talked about them being the 213 00:13:58.800 --> 00:14:03.500 cradle in which our Lord is kept and held or the or the the sheath in 214 00:14:03.500 --> 00:14:09.000 which the the sword is is kept. And so we value and have always 215 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:14.600 valued the languages as a Synod and as Lutherans in general. So we 216 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:19.200 want to help our students keep those language skills going and. Because 217 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:25.900 the tendency is to under the old curriculum you learn the language and 218 00:14:25.900 --> 00:14:29.500 then you get into the ministry and you don't use it. 219 00:14:30.400 --> 00:14:34.400 Yeah, I think I don't know if that's a product of the curriculum or 220 00:14:34.400 --> 00:14:34.700 not. 221 00:14:34.700 --> 00:14:40.500 But this this is an attempt to help the students stay in the languages 222 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:42.800 through out there four years and on vicarage. 223 00:14:42.800 --> 00:14:45.700 So this is something I wish I would have had on vicarage which was 224 00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:47.200 this Hebrew and Greek lab. 225 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:53.900 It's about 2 hours of work per week. Is it graded? No. That makes it 226 00:14:53.900 --> 00:14:54.300 nice I would think. 227 00:14:54.300 --> 00:15:00.400 Right and it's it's it's very interactional as much as you can do at a 228 00:15:00.400 --> 00:15:01.000 distance. 229 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:06.400 They they study for a little bit maybe 20 minutes or half 230 00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:10.100 an hour if they look at the text in the original language. Then they 231 00:15:10.100 --> 00:15:13.000 watch a video of one of the exegetical professors who has who has 232 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:17.200 worked through the text very carefully and reads it through in the 233 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:21.600 original language with the students and it highlights particular 234 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:26.000 things that need to be seen or they could be possible things that 235 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.500 would be preached on. And these are upcoming text 236 00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:30.300 so they're not just random text. They're 237 00:15:30.400 --> 00:15:32.000 text that are coming up in the lectionary. 238 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:36.000 And so if a vicar is preaching anytime in the next few weeks, this 239 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:36.900 would be a great help. 240 00:15:36.900 --> 00:15:42.100 But in that way they continue the language skills throughout their 241 00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:42.300 time. 242 00:15:42.300 --> 00:15:46.700 So I have a there are numerous sections of the Hebrew and Greek labs 243 00:15:46.700 --> 00:15:47.200 for vicarage, 244 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:52.200 I get to supervise one of them. And then we also have Labs anytime a 245 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:56.800 student is not taking an exegetical course an Old or a New Testament 246 00:15:56.800 --> 00:16:03.800 course then there in a 1 Credit one hour a week lab. Again currently 247 00:16:03.800 --> 00:16:08.000 not graded not-for-credit, but it keeps us together in the language 248 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:12.000 gives us the opportunity to to demonstrate exegetical skills. 249 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.800 What questions do you ask of a text? 250 00:16:13.800 --> 00:16:14.600 How do you read a text? 251 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.400 How do you interact with the text and then to some extent 252 00:16:17.400 --> 00:16:20.400 how do you apply the text. This is one of the benefits of the new curriculum. 253 00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:24.900 And looking back at my 15 years as president one of the things that 254 00:16:24.900 --> 00:16:30.300 that I'm proud of and and I say that in a humble way is the revision 255 00:16:30.300 --> 00:16:37.900 of the residential curriculum. Because holes were filled and and this 256 00:16:37.900 --> 00:16:43.600 is one of the holes and that the faculty worked hard in in designing 257 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:48.300 the labs the formation hours the whole sequence of the curriculum. 258 00:16:48.300 --> 00:16:49.000 Yeah. 259 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.500 I didn't do anything, but they did a great job. 260 00:16:53.900 --> 00:17:00.100 Maybe we've gotten too far down the road you're talking about Old 261 00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:02.100 Testament prophets and so on. 262 00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:09.500 Why bother with the Old Testament, you know, I can go and buy a 263 00:17:09.500 --> 00:17:10.900 cheaper copy of the Bible 264 00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:12.200 that just has a New Testament 265 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:17.090 maybe the Psalms and that's where God is angry. 266 00:17:17.090 --> 00:17:19.700 There's no gospel in the Old Testament. 267 00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:23.590 So, you know, maybe we've gotten too far down the road. 268 00:17:23.590 --> 00:17:26.300 Could you could you correct it for me? 269 00:17:26.300 --> 00:17:30.200 Well, I have to because I'm an Old Testament exegete. 270 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.400 So if I can't do this I shouldn't be here. 271 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:37.200 We actually don't know Christ fully if we don't know the Old 272 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:43.100 Testament. He tells us how to read the Old Testament and that is. 273 00:17:43.100 --> 00:17:49.900 I talk to my students about putting your Jesus classes on. We read the Old Testament correctly and 274 00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:57.400 best when we read seeing the Redemptive work of Christ on every page 275 00:17:57.400 --> 00:17:59.800 of the scriptures Old Testament and New Testament. 276 00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:04.200 Yes, that that was drilled into me here. 277 00:18:04.600 --> 00:18:08.700 You can't say Old Testament is Law and New Testament is Gospel. 278 00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:11.200 There again, if that's how we think about it 279 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:12.400 we don't know Jesus very well. 280 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:16.500 Because if you meet Jesus on the mount when he preaches his Sermon on 281 00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:21.300 the Mount if you don't find any law in there, you're not reading very 282 00:18:21.300 --> 00:18:24.400 well. And there's beautiful Gospel in the Old Testament. 283 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:34.500 Incredible Gospel and this is the joy of this prophet semester. It is heavy you get a prophet like Amos and you have eight and a half 284 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:40.300 chapters that are just heavy-hitting primarily law and then you get to 285 00:18:40.300 --> 00:18:45.000 the last part of the last chapter and it just drips and flows. And 286 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.400 that's what's going on in this gospel with the the the hills dripping 287 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.700 with new wine and honey, and and the the restoration that the Lord 288 00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:59.700 promises through the suffering and at the end of it at all of that. And 289 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:04.500 just as you say that it's an invitation to open up the Bible. 290 00:19:04.600 --> 00:19:11.800 And read Amos, read Isaiah, read it all. And be ready it's going to 291 00:19:11.800 --> 00:19:15.400 be uncomfortable and I think that's what my prophet students are finding right 292 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.300 now is this is uncomfortable because we haven't read like this. 293 00:19:18.300 --> 00:19:23.100 We haven't read carefully enough we've selected stories that we give 294 00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:27.800 to her to our VBS and Sunday school and that's appropriate. And that's appropriate. We have to do age 295 00:19:27.800 --> 00:19:32.600 appropriate things but somewhere we tend to fall off of doing age 296 00:19:32.600 --> 00:19:35.800 appropriate things as we get older and when 297 00:19:35.800 --> 00:19:39.800 we're ready to hear these things, we don't study as much cuz we're not 298 00:19:39.800 --> 00:19:41.300 in VBS and we're not in Sunday school. 299 00:19:41.300 --> 00:19:45.400 Hopefully, you know, we spend all of us spend our entire lives in 300 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:49.200 Bible class and in worship and hearing from the lectionary and the 301 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.500 preaching but. 302 00:19:51.300 --> 00:19:56.800 But it's a shock when you read these prophets and they are so intense 303 00:19:56.800 --> 00:20:02.700 and the law is so powerfully thunderingly condemning. And 304 00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:05.300 condemning in many cases religious people. 305 00:20:05.300 --> 00:20:05.900 Right. 306 00:20:05.900 --> 00:20:06.500 Right. 307 00:20:06.500 --> 00:20:17.400 Oh Yeah, we tend to like read the prophets and we think I should go out on the street corner and proclaim this to the world around me, which is not entirely wrong. But he prophets were proclaiming to 308 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:20.300 God's people not to the general populace of the world. 309 00:20:20.300 --> 00:20:25.200 And and yes, there's words of law for all people cuz all are 310 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.300 sinners and have the fallen short. 311 00:20:27.900 --> 00:20:31.900 But this these words are meant for us as church and when we stop and 312 00:20:31.900 --> 00:20:34.100 think about that that's tough. 313 00:20:34.100 --> 00:20:39.500 So yeah, it's a challenge but the gospel becomes so much more 314 00:20:39.500 --> 00:20:45.700 beautiful and and and edifying satisfying relieving solving all of 315 00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:46.200 that. 316 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:50.300 When you heard the thundering roar of Amos or the of the Lord 317 00:20:50.300 --> 00:20:55.100 through Amos or and all these different images we can come up with. One 318 00:20:55.100 --> 00:20:56.600 of one of the old sayings is. 319 00:20:58.100 --> 00:20:59.300 You remind me of this. 320 00:20:59.300 --> 00:21:04.400 The New Testament is concealed in the old the Old Testament is 321 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:10.100 revealed in the new and and and that's law and gospel we understand 322 00:21:10.100 --> 00:21:13.100 Jesus much much better from our studies of the Old Testament. 323 00:21:13.100 --> 00:21:20.000 I wish I were young and having you for prophets know. It be a lot of fun. This has been 324 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:20.200 fascinating. 325 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:25.000 We invite you to stay with us to take a short break now, but will get 326 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.500 into the books of Nehemiah and Esther with Doctor Penhallegon. 327 00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:33.200 Concordia Seminary St. 328 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:38.000 Louis provides continuing education resources for pastors and lay 329 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:43.100 people to discover all the Concordia Seminary has for you visit us on 330 00:21:43.100 --> 00:21:45.600 the web at CSL. 331 00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:46.400 EDU. 332 00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:52.200 Welcome back to Word and Work an Intersection. 333 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.700 I'm your host Dale Meyer. Today our guest is Dr. 334 00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:56.700 Phil Penhallegon. 335 00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:57.300 Dr. 336 00:21:57.300 --> 00:22:01.400 Penhallegon is a professor of Exegetical theology here at Concordia 337 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:01.900 Seminary. 338 00:22:01.900 --> 00:22:07.400 One of the things I didn't ask in in our first segment is about your 339 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:18.300 children. Yes. Tell us? My wife and I are blessed with four children, Ben and Micah, Gabriel and Abigail. They are all Old 340 00:22:18.300 --> 00:22:19.000 Testament names? 341 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:33.900 Gabe is the angel that appears in both. So we started to work our way towards it. So they range Abby is our youngest 19 sophomore at 342 00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:34.500 Concordia 343 00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:39.700 Ann Arbor and Ben is 24 and he's actually here with us now. Micah and 344 00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:43.500 Gabriel both back in Michigan. Gabe at Concordia Ann Arbor and 345 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:48.600 Micah working and looking trying to figure out what's next whether it's 346 00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:51.500 Police Academy could be Seminary, 347 00:22:51.500 --> 00:23:01.200 nobody knows. Law and Gospel. Serving people is really what its all about. Never pushed them into Church work. 348 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.100 We've invited them and told them all along 349 00:23:03.100 --> 00:23:06.200 whatever you're vocation is as long as you're you're serving 350 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:07.100 people in love, 351 00:23:07.100 --> 00:23:08.000 we're good. 352 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.200 Great. 353 00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:13.900 It is the first segment you talked about exhorting your students to 354 00:23:13.900 --> 00:23:18.400 dive deep into a book two books. 355 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:21.100 Nehemiah is one of your deep dives. 356 00:23:21.100 --> 00:23:22.700 How'd you get interested in Nehemiah? 357 00:23:27.100 --> 00:23:34.000 During a course here with Paul Raabe graduate-level course in the 358 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:42.400 Book of Daniel, Daniel chapter 9, long narrative prayer. And seems it was 359 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:44.700 probably probably an offhand comment 360 00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:48.500 he made about how Lutheran's don't study prayer and we really ought to 361 00:23:48.500 --> 00:23:51.000 have people working on that topic. 362 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.000 I was looking for a dissertation topic at the time and so was very 363 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.700 interested in this idea of exploring biblical prayers. 364 00:23:57.700 --> 00:24:02.500 And so when it came time to actually nail down the dissertation, I did 365 00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:05.300 all kinds of exploring all the all the prayers in the Old Testament 366 00:24:05.300 --> 00:24:09.300 couple great books that that already do kind of a panoramic view of those 367 00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:09.700 things. 368 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:16.100 Nehemiah wasn't really on my radar but Nehemiah 9 and Ezra 9 I know 369 00:24:16.100 --> 00:24:17.100 why they're all nines 370 00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:20.800 I don't know but none of these great long narrative prayers of the Old 371 00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:20.900 Testament. 372 00:24:20.900 --> 00:24:25.500 And so that I started digging into Nehemiah and realized 373 00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:31.300 okay, the book opens practically with a prayer verse 5 to 11, which 374 00:24:31.300 --> 00:24:34.000 sets the tone for the whole book. And then I started reading and 375 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:38.300 recognizing oh wait they keep mentioning prayer and then there are these 376 00:24:38.300 --> 00:24:41.900 prayers that pop out of the narrative frame and are addressed 377 00:24:41.900 --> 00:24:46.000 directly to God rather than you know hearing this is what someone 378 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.100 prayed the prayer in the text. 379 00:24:48.100 --> 00:24:55.700 And so that intrigued me and so I landed on Nehemiah and and spent 380 00:24:55.700 --> 00:25:00.000 number of years trying to trying to work this out and get an 381 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.800 understanding what was going on with the prayers. Which means you have 382 00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:05.100 to understand the whole narrative and and all that so. That's interesting it's something I know nothing about. 383 00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:15.700 In my experience the Old Testament prayer that pops up is Solomon's 384 00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:23.500 Prayer at the dedication of the temple. And very similar. The word usage and the prayer usage are 385 00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:24.600 very similar. 386 00:25:24.600 --> 00:25:35.700 Could you tell us more about Nehemiah's prayers? Yeah, well Nehemiah. So I am doing this in my Hebrew Lab right now. We pick a text and since I happen to to know fair amount about 387 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:36.400 Nehemiah 388 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.400 that's where we started. 389 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:41.200 We're reading through the first chapter and and I'm demonstrating to the 390 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:41.700 students. 391 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:46.500 How as you read through the the prayer and Nehemiah 1 he hears this 392 00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:50.600 report that the walls of Jerusalem a broken down and Gates have been 393 00:25:50.600 --> 00:25:53.300 burnt with fire in the people are in disgrace and distress. 394 00:25:53.300 --> 00:25:58.600 And and then he enters you here is the report about him fasting and 395 00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:05.000 praying for days. And then he gives to us the words of this prayer that 396 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:08.900 he prayed day and night from we don't know how many days but he 397 00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:10.800 indicates it's an ongoing process. 398 00:26:10.900 --> 00:26:17.700 Then he addresses God with all of this wonderful language confessing 399 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:23.200 who God is and in that confession what he's expecting from God. He 400 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:27.100 confesses his sins and the sins of the people and then he goes into 401 00:26:27.100 --> 00:26:31.900 his request. And so it's a great model prayer for us to think about how 402 00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:38.200 we might pray and then he reiterates it briefly and then the text moves 403 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:44.900 on and you see how Nehemiah is working to restore. Everybody knows if 404 00:26:44.900 --> 00:26:48.200 you know anything about Nehemiah that the wall of Jerusalem was rebuilt 405 00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:51.100 in 52 days. But the story doesn't end there because Nehemiah is 406 00:26:51.100 --> 00:26:56.800 really there with concern for the people of Jerusalem as well and the 407 00:26:56.800 --> 00:27:02.300 province of the Persian province of Yehud and in so we see God 408 00:27:02.300 --> 00:27:06.200 working through Nehemiah to not restore his City, but the people in 409 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:10.700 the in the city and in the region. And then we get to Nehemiah 9 where 410 00:27:10.700 --> 00:27:10.800 we see 411 00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:15.700 again, a long confessional prayer that narrates the history of 412 00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:21.100 God's people and their rebellion against God. And this one has a strange 413 00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:23.000 ending because it ends with we are in distress. 414 00:27:24.800 --> 00:27:35.500 Amen. The implication that now, okay God, we're waiting and that's what we do. Right. 415 00:27:35.500 --> 00:27:39.800 We wait in faith as we confess to the Lord our sins and iniquities 416 00:27:39.800 --> 00:27:44.800 and then we wait for him to do his thing as it has done in Christ. 417 00:27:44.800 --> 00:27:46.300 Is it similar to the Psalms? 418 00:27:46.300 --> 00:27:56.400 There are some similarities. Yeah. It's just that these are these are narrative style prose prayers rather 419 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:57.400 than being poetry. 420 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:02.700 And so you don't have the same the most part you don't have the same 421 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:13.900 sort of parallelism going on. Parallelism for our audience means? So when you are dealing with the Psalms and the prophets in general 422 00:28:13.900 --> 00:28:17.800 because the prophets are very much many of them written in poetic form. 423 00:28:17.800 --> 00:28:22.000 Parallelism being how it when you when you read a piece of poetry 424 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.800 especially biblical poetry, line 425 00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:29.500 A line B line B might repeat what line A says it might change it just 426 00:28:29.500 --> 00:28:33.200 a little bit all kinds of dialogue and discussion about how exactly 427 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:34.100 all of this works. 428 00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:38.200 But God is our refuge and strength line A very present help in trouble 429 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:45.700 line B. Yeah. And sometimes line B goes a different direction and sometimes it says the same thing but we 430 00:28:45.700 --> 00:28:48.000 invert word order or there sound plays going on. 431 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.200 Another reason for our students to to learn Hebrew to be able 432 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:57.300 to appreciate the incredible beauty of the Poetry that we can't bring 433 00:28:57.300 --> 00:28:58.300 into English. 434 00:29:00.100 --> 00:29:06.000 In all of its facets, right, we can still bring it in. The King James is 435 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.900 a loved translation because of the beauty of its language and 436 00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:14.200 it worked hard to to replicate some of that beauty, but they can't we 437 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:15.600 can't do it all. You have to choose 438 00:29:15.600 --> 00:29:18.900 what facets are you bringing into another language. When the program is 439 00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:19.100 over 440 00:29:19.100 --> 00:29:24.400 I'm going to have to go read the prayers of Nehemiah. And part of the 441 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:25.500 reason for saying that 442 00:29:26.600 --> 00:29:30.800 is that we called you to the Concordia Seminary because you're a pastor 443 00:29:30.800 --> 00:29:31.400 at heart. 444 00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:33.700 You're not an ivory tower theologian. 445 00:29:33.700 --> 00:29:36.900 I mean, you know how to climb the Ivory Tower and do a theology at the 446 00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:41.600 highest levels, but your pastor at heart and in so he here comes just 447 00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:43.600 a parishioners question. 448 00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:48.500 I find it hard to pray for long extended periods of time. 449 00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:51.700 I can I can shoot what I think Dr. 450 00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:59.600 Franzmann called a dart prayer. Dart prayers. Yeah, right. I do that often but to sit down 451 00:30:00.800 --> 00:30:05.100 kind of being in the ASAP person in an ASAP world, 452 00:30:05.100 --> 00:30:13.700 I find that hard. Do you have any comment pastor and scholar? I find it hard as well. 453 00:30:13.700 --> 00:30:20.500 And I think we all go through mountains and valleys within our 454 00:30:20.500 --> 00:30:21.800 devotional life as well. 455 00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:24.100 And and there are times 456 00:30:24.100 --> 00:30:27.900 I think when I find that this is really no challenge at all. 457 00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:31.500 I have so many things to think about and to pray about and just 458 00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:34.700 praying Luther's morning prayer and we get to those words into your 459 00:30:34.700 --> 00:30:35.600 hands I commend. 460 00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:38.700 Yeah, what is it that I commend? 461 00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:39.400 This has been, 462 00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:43.200 this is my current prayer practice for me is to pray that every day 463 00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.200 and then to stop at that point. 464 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:51.100 And to just think about all of the people and events and 465 00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:56.200 situations that I need to commend into the Lord's hands trusting that 466 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.900 he's got them as he promised that he does. And that that has really 467 00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:02.400 been a help to me. 468 00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:07.300 And so then pastorally we can pass this on and we encourage more 469 00:31:07.300 --> 00:31:10.800 people that, yeah. Now devotional life one takes work. 470 00:31:10.800 --> 00:31:14.800 We don't want it to have to be work but it's work to sit down and 471 00:31:14.800 --> 00:31:18.800 discipline ourselves to read the scriptures and then to enter into 472 00:31:18.800 --> 00:31:20.800 prayer and take the time for it. 473 00:31:22.600 --> 00:31:29.200 It's not just listening in your earbuds to some devotion, which I 474 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:30.600 guess. It can be part of it. 475 00:31:30.600 --> 00:31:34.000 You can do that part of it. Yeah. But the other part is. We got to be feed by the Word. Right. But 476 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:39.000 the way, the other part is reacting engaging laying out. 477 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:48.500 The things that Nehemiah lays out. Right. If you do sit down and read Nehemiah again this afternoon well, you're going to find that he also 478 00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:51.700 has these prayers that jump out of the text and these are the ones 479 00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:52.600 that grabbed me. 480 00:31:52.600 --> 00:31:56.400 I didn't realize they were there but you reading these narrative 481 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:01.700 prayers which fit nicely into the flow of the text and make great 482 00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:05.500 sense hold it all together, but bam there are these prayers that jump off 483 00:32:05.500 --> 00:32:06.900 the page remember me 484 00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:13.000 Oh God because of. Where did that come from and they're sort of startling and to step back 485 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:13.700 and think about oh 486 00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:17.300 Nehemiah is telling us his story. 487 00:32:17.300 --> 00:32:21.800 But even in the midst of telling us this he's praying to God and these 488 00:32:21.800 --> 00:32:23.800 are sorted dart or arrow prayers. 489 00:32:23.800 --> 00:32:30.200 I remember an older pastor, he since passed on, we have a conversation he be chairing 490 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:33.400 a meeting and all of a sudden going to a meeting dear God help 491 00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:34.500 us...... something like that. Yeah. So I will read Nehemiah 492 00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:44.000 this afternoon after my nap I'm retired I can do that. 493 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.000 I'll put off the shuffleboard game. 494 00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.900 But your other area of deep dive interest is Esther. 495 00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:52.400 How'd you get into Esther? 496 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:56.800 Yeah, again kind of fell into it. 497 00:32:56.800 --> 00:32:59.000 It's my wife's favorite book. 498 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:05.700 And so it's good for me to know this book of course. While working on 499 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:09.900 Nehemiah and my dissertation and being at Concordia Ann Arbor. 500 00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:15.200 Concordia Publishing House asked if I could write a bible study on 501 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:15.400 Esther. 502 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:18.400 I think it's "God's Word for Today Series." 503 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:26.100 And I said sure cuz I'm not good at saying no to things. And they pay 504 00:33:26.100 --> 00:33:32.000 you. Yes, right and it really was was great for me. 505 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.900 I knew the story of Esther or I thought I knew the story of Esther that's 506 00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:36.800 what we find all the time. 507 00:33:36.800 --> 00:33:38.400 Right when we finally dive into these things 508 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:45.900 oh maybe I didn't know all of this. So it really was writing for, CPH, Concordia Publishing House 509 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:50.400 that that got me into the Book of Esther and then they said well, 510 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:55.000 would you consider carrying this the next step and and working for the 511 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:58.100 Commentary Series. Don't have the contract yet 512 00:33:58.100 --> 00:34:01.800 cuz I haven't found the time to finish up the prospectus and proposal 513 00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:03.600 but our plan is to work together on that. 514 00:34:03.600 --> 00:34:09.700 I work on it regularly, maybe not as focused as I'd like at times as we 515 00:34:09.700 --> 00:34:11.100 were talking a few minutes ago. 516 00:34:11.100 --> 00:34:15.000 Have you read my commentary on 1st Peter? 517 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.000 It was supposed to come out about 20 years ago. 518 00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:22.200 We get that. Digging deep. 519 00:34:23.200 --> 00:34:26.100 Esther is is about what? I mean 520 00:34:26.100 --> 00:34:29.200 just give us a summary of the book short summary. 521 00:34:32.300 --> 00:34:35.800 Reading the book. 522 00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:41.100 You're going to think it's about Esther and maybe Mordecai. 523 00:34:43.700 --> 00:34:47.000 But really it's it's it's like all of the other scriptures. 524 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:50.400 It's a story of God's salvation of his people. Now, 525 00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:57.700 yes, Esther, Mordecai main main players in this narrative, but I always 526 00:34:57.700 --> 00:35:02.300 like to keep the focus on here is how God was at work to do his thing. 527 00:35:02.300 --> 00:35:07.400 And so you have God's people facing annihilation in the 528 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:21.400 Persia and Susa. Literally. Yeah, right. Literally. Because you got your bad guy. Genocide. You got your stage left bad guy coming in and and 529 00:35:23.900 --> 00:35:27.900 proposing to the king who seems to take people's proposals quite 530 00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:28.100 easily. 531 00:35:28.100 --> 00:35:31.800 There's those people who just don't do everything the way the rest of 532 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:32.200 the world 533 00:35:32.200 --> 00:35:33.400 does it the way you want it done. 534 00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:37.400 Let's get rid of them. And the king said sure 535 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:38.800 here's my signet-ring go do it. 536 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:49.300 And and the story is is how God works through Ester who's a Judahite 537 00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:57.100 young lady in the capital Susa. And he works through her and her cousin 538 00:35:57.100 --> 00:36:03.100 Mordecai to save these people through whom he's going to bring his 539 00:36:03.100 --> 00:36:09.900 promised son and so. The thing people often mention about the book of Esther is God is not mentioned 540 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:15.500 and that is striking and people have been uncomfortable with this from 541 00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:18.500 the beginning I think. Because from the beginning of this book because 542 00:36:18.500 --> 00:36:22.700 the the Greek version of the book and there are a couple different 543 00:36:22.700 --> 00:36:27.500 Greek versions add in a whole bunch of pieces to the narrative so that 544 00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:33.600 the whole book becomes this nice Pius story you have prayer and you 545 00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:39.200 have all of the elements you'd expect. And you can't go to Esther if you want to study prayer. It's kind of like the 546 00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:48.500 doctrinal reviewer said you need to add all of the this. All the good stuff is missing. Which I should explain to the audience. The things that we 547 00:36:48.500 --> 00:36:53.300 prepare in our church usually go through a process called doctrinal 548 00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:53.700 review. 549 00:36:53.700 --> 00:36:57.500 You know is its peer review you get somebody to look at it and say, you 550 00:36:57.500 --> 00:37:01.900 know is is this correct from our understanding the scriptures and Lutheran 551 00:37:01.900 --> 00:37:02.600 Confessions. Yeah. 552 00:37:02.600 --> 00:37:05.400 So it's like the doctrinal reviewer said you got to get some God in there. Yeah, right. God is on every page of Esther if your willing to see it. 553 00:37:11.100 --> 00:37:15.900 God is in control of all of the events taking place and you do see 554 00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:19.600 them fasting and anywhere else in the Old Testament among God's people 555 00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:22.700 when they're fasting they're praying but they don't tell you that but 556 00:37:22.700 --> 00:37:23.500 you can figure that out. 557 00:37:23.500 --> 00:37:28.900 And so so it's really it's a fascinating book. And it's in some ways so 558 00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:32.600 applicable to us because it looks more like our lives than when you 559 00:37:32.600 --> 00:37:35.600 read the Abraham narrative and God is speaking to Abraham. 560 00:37:35.600 --> 00:37:45.600 God has never addressed me audibly on my own apart from my pastor 561 00:37:45.600 --> 00:37:48.900 speaking the words of God to me or a fellow Christian speaking the words 562 00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:49.400 of God to me. 563 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.600 I've never heard the voice of God neither did Esther neither did Mordecai 564 00:37:53.600 --> 00:37:59.400 and and they lived faithfully in their time and did what was theirs to 565 00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:01.500 do. As we were preparing for the program 566 00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:06.300 you mentioned that there are some historical inaccuracies or something 567 00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:06.700 with the 568 00:38:07.900 --> 00:38:11.200 Esther and and history that needs a proper explanation. I'm not sure I would say it that way. 569 00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:22.400 It is hard to correlate the names in Esther exactly with known 570 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:23.500 historical figures. 571 00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:27.700 Okay. And probably Darius or Xerxes 572 00:38:27.700 --> 00:38:30.600 definitely a historical figure no doubt about it. 573 00:38:30.600 --> 00:38:39.600 But the the plot of Esther really kicks off when Xerxes Queen Vashti 574 00:38:39.600 --> 00:38:44.690 refuses to come out and show off her beauty and she's deposed. Well no 575 00:38:44.690 --> 00:38:51.300 one can find Vashti in any outside of the Bible accounts and 576 00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:55.690 we don't have a record of an Esther or record of Mordecai. 577 00:38:55.690 --> 00:38:57.600 Although there are names of a similar to Mordecai. 578 00:38:59.500 --> 00:39:02.800 But there are so many things buried in the sands of time that we 579 00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:06.500 haven't seen yet, right. There was a time when no one believed that the 580 00:39:06.500 --> 00:39:13.900 Hittites existed so Eastern Turkey north of Syria, the Hittite Empire 581 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:18.200 scriptures talk about it all the time and it in critical Scholars were 582 00:39:18.200 --> 00:39:21.800 saying that's just a Biblical myth until they actually found the 583 00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:22.200 Hittite Empire. 584 00:39:22.200 --> 00:39:30.000 So that's true. New Testament archaeology as well. Yeah. We can't use archeology to prove the faith. 585 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.900 One one thing you find seems like it prove something the next thing he 586 00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:39.800 finds out will have to reconsider that. But it is it is a great way to 587 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:43.700 understand the context in which these biblical people live. 588 00:39:43.700 --> 00:39:46.900 So now you've been talking these last minutes as a scholar but you 589 00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:52.200 obviously are but you also served as a pastor, a vacancy Pastor, what's 590 00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:55.600 the differences between professor and pastor? Well being a professor here you better be a pastor. Alright. 591 00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:04.400 We're training people to go be pastors or deaconesses 592 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:06.700 and serve in the church in that way. 593 00:40:08.600 --> 00:40:11.200 So my professorial roll 594 00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:12.100 that's what I'm doing. 595 00:40:12.100 --> 00:40:12.700 I'm here 596 00:40:12.700 --> 00:40:17.400 I have to be a scholar but I also need that experience of of living 597 00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:21.200 with people in a congregation in their lives and being a part of 598 00:40:21.200 --> 00:40:24.900 their lives and bringing the word directly into their lives. Crying 599 00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:29.300 with them singing with them praising with them rejoicing being 600 00:40:29.300 --> 00:40:33.200 being a part of people's lives in the in their daily lives. And 601 00:40:33.200 --> 00:40:38.500 bringing the word of God to people both audibly and in the sacraments, 602 00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:40.300 so. 603 00:40:41.700 --> 00:40:46.400 It is a joy to get to do it all actually. One of the reasons 604 00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.200 why we're so glad you've joined us here Concordia Seminary is because 605 00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:54.400 you have a reputation as relating very well to students at college, Okay. 606 00:40:54.400 --> 00:41:00.400 And could you tell us a little bit about that and and contrast college 607 00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:01.500 students and seminarians? 608 00:41:05.100 --> 00:41:09.100 I push myself hard and I push my students hard. 609 00:41:10.900 --> 00:41:12.600 But not without supporting them. 610 00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:20.400 And in my students who are willing to work recognize that and tend to 611 00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:24.600 come back and say thank you. And praise and glory be to God. 612 00:41:24.600 --> 00:41:34.400 I love the relational aspect of of this professorial ministry. I dealt with a lot of 613 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.700 freshmen, especially in my last year's at Concordia Ann Arbor. 614 00:41:37.700 --> 00:41:42.700 So they're just coming they're the age of my kids so I can understand 615 00:41:42.700 --> 00:41:49.300 them better than when I got there. Here and here I've only been teaching six of the 616 00:41:49.300 --> 00:41:50.500 eight weeks that we've been here. 617 00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:54.800 It has been a little bit of a revelation remembering that there are 618 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.500 further down the road and many of them have had a few years of 619 00:41:57.500 --> 00:42:00.700 experience even beyond college or many years of experience beyond 620 00:42:00.700 --> 00:42:01.300 college. 621 00:42:01.300 --> 00:42:06.600 So so I'm still getting used to the different the different place in 622 00:42:06.600 --> 00:42:08.200 life that these students are. It's a lot of fun. 623 00:42:08.200 --> 00:42:12.800 I've had some really great conversations as I get to know the 624 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:13.200 students. 625 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:17.300 It's a niche student body and when they come back from vicarage, you can 626 00:42:17.300 --> 00:42:27.700 see the change in maturation. Yeah, I'm excited to see that. Well I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation today Phil, Doctor Penhallegon. 627 00:42:27.700 --> 00:42:33.800 As I said after my nap, I'll delay shuffleboard to read the prayers of 628 00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:38.700 Nehemiah and and I am just so thrilled you you you've joined us here at 629 00:42:38.700 --> 00:42:43.200 Concordia Seminary. You're on the faculty and in your another reason 630 00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:45.300 why you know, it's just a great time to be at the Seminary. 631 00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:48.900 It's a great time to be getting into the ministry. And I want to thank 632 00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:51.700 you our audience for being with us today. 633 00:42:51.700 --> 00:42:54.000 This has been a stimulating conversation. 634 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.100 I hope you benefited from it. 635 00:42:57.100 --> 00:43:01.700 I certainly have I hope your Doctor Penhallegon have benefited from it. 636 00:43:01.700 --> 00:43:06.300 And my prayer is that the intersection of Word and Work will be busy on 637 00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:07.100 your corner.