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Hello and welcome to Word and Work an Intersection.

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I'm your host Dale Meyer.

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This hour will talk with Dr.

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Phil Penhallegon.

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Dr.

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Penhallegon is a professor of Exegetical Theology here at Concordia

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Seminary. His areas of Interest are the books of Esther and Nehemiah as

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well as Biblical Hebrew and Greek.

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And this Academic Year 2020 and 2021 is his first year here on the

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faculty of our Seminary.

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Welcome Phil.

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Thank you.

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Welcome to Saint Louis.

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Welcome to Concordia Seminary. How long you been here?

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Seven weeks, 8 weeks. 7 weeks.

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How are how are you finding both the Seminary and the St.

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Louis area? Well it's a joy to back at the Seminary, lot of fun. St.

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Louis has always been great.

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I'd not a real fan of heat and humidity, but that has gone away in the

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last couple weeks.

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So now we're really enjoying it with our windows open. Your windows

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open. You said, one of your neighbors made a remark about your windows

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being open. Yeah, we're from Michigan

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we open our Windows there.

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Nobody else on the street here opens their windows.

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Yeah. That's true Diane and I have taken the screens off our

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Windows because we have never open them.

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We never open them.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, just a curiosity.

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What's the ethnic background of your last name?

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Gibbs always used to say I was his favorite German student, no. Cornish. Cornwall, England the

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tip sticks out. Pirates of Penzance

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the the musical is Penzance is the tip of Cornwall.

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So my my dad's relatives were copper miners in the UP who came from

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Cornwall who were tin miners there.

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So you got an unforgettable last night now great. Another little tidbit

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as we as we get into today's program is you were the last professor

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called under the regime of Dale Meyer. We went through and extensive process. And then you left. And then I left. But that is an ongoing source of pride for me that that

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we were able to call you before I left for retirement and so. Thank you.

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And I will always have some personal connection with you

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even if though I'm around just now and then on campus. So tell us about

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your family.

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My wife is Gretchen.

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We've been married 28 years.

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We're halfway through year 29.

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She is teaching here in the Kirkwood School District right now as a

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teaching assistant.

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She's trained in language arts and especially in English language

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learning currently.

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She's not working in in that specifically but might get back into that

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as soon as we get settled here.

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Is she Michigander? She is. She grew up a little bit north of Detroit in

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Fraser. Fraser is where Ed Weber was that he was vice president

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Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod some decades ago.

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Yeah. That's her grandfather. Really. So I had lots of very good conversations. I had the privilege of meeting him while he was yet living and lots of great conversations.

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He was an unforgettable person definitely, a force to be reckoned with. He served as a pastor and then as Michigan d=District

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President and Vice President of the Synod. Right.

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I remember him with with fondness to the extent that I got to know

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him.

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But whoa this is a revelation for our program today.

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Yeah. You married strategically. No, I had no idea.

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You know, I'm one of these non German Lutherans who came into the

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Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod from outside grew up in the ALC.

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When there was such a thing and. My wife did to. College Years that

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brought me into the LCMS and transferring from the University of

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Michigan and architecture to Concordia College Ann Arbor at the time.

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Met Gretchen and married into a Missouri Synod family teachers and

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pastors and all of that.

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What interested you in the ministry.

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Well,

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you're going to ask about exegetical theology that would Monday cuz

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that's what I do.

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And that's what that's what I wanted to study the word.

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I was just really adamant about having the time to study the word

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deeply. And my years at the University of Michigan I enjoyed them and architecture great but I didn't I just

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didn't think that's what I wanted to do.

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I also found out that many Architects and end up at a firm where they

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end up being the stairwell designer or the the bathroom designer and

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that's not what I had in mind. And then became very involved at the

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University Lutheran Chapel Pastor Ed Kraus was there and was a great

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mentor of mine.

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Just wanted to study the word. Transferred to Concordia

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Ann Arbor knowing I could do that

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there. Not sure if I wanted to be a pastor yet.

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Just exploring and I think even on my Seminary application

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I think I even was honest enough to say I'm not quite sure about this

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yet, but I want to study the word.

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I just need the time to be in its in that depth. And then in my time here was

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shaped and formed into someone who wanted them to apply that word to

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others.

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One of one of the questions that that we prepared for today's program

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is to explain exegetical theology to us.

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What what does exegetical mean and you set it up nicely.

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Yeah.

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Well exegetical is doing exactly what I wanted to do. It's to read carefully any sort of literature can be exegeted. Ex a

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el omy, delete it out. Right.

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And so and so the task of an exegete is to read and read very

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carefully a text.

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And of course in our case were talking about the biblical text.

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And so this is the task I wanted to do in this is the task I get to do.

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I did it for for 16 years at Ann Arbor helping others learn how to do

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this task and now I get to be here and I'm excited to be working with

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the with the pastor pastoral candidates and diaconal candidates. Tell us about what you did at Ann

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Arbor? Yeah. You were a student there but then you were a professor for 16 years. After four

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years and Glencoe, Minnesota Good Shepherd Glencoe had the opportunity

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was called to Concordia Ann Arbor to teach. And when you're at one of

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the CUS schools, I'm an exegete but you become a little bit of

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everything and that's actually quite a blessing it all. But primarily

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I taught Hebrew and Greek, Old and New Testament and then a few other

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courses within biblical studies.

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That might be an interesting tidbit

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for our audience. Theology is one but a couple hundred years ago got

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divvied up into exegesis ,systematics, practical theology and historical

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Theology

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and so we think of those areas. But what you're just saying is in it

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and I think all of us in the in pastoral Ministry find this out

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theology is one. It's the study of the Gospel for people. And the pastor as theologian

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has to be doing all of them all of them all together at the

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same time every week. Just yesterday in in the prophets course had a

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soapbox moment as I exhorted them to find time to create time.

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These are my second year students in the prophets to to dig into pick a

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prophet or any other book of the of the scriptures and to dig into it.

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Even if they're not using it for a current Bible study or

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current sermon or

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sermon series but to do this set aside the time put a note on your

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door, you know in the word and teach the congregation. Or even

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ask the congregation to exhort you to spend time in the word.

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That's that's our task to be in the word and when we're in it, then we

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can bring it bring it and apply it to the lives of ourselves and the

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people around us. It would seem to me that if you dig deep into a

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prophet or any other biblical text that has carryover values when you

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read the other scriptures. Yeah without a doubt. Because you can't go deeply into

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everything. No you can't it depends how long your career is. And if we set up this time, we're we're constantly in the

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scriptures, of course we want to do everything.

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But but if we give ourselves that time will will have a depth of

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knowledge that we could never have if we allow the the

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constant demands of the pastoral day to keep us from the word. And

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our our task begins and ends in the word and so to exhort the students

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to recognize that and to plan how they can put this into their time

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into their day and to ask their congregations.

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I asked my congregation when I got there help me. Help me find ways to

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to set aside time to be in the word. For me

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it's morning,

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I'm a morning person.

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So some some pretty good study and prayer time. And that's that's hard as he

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as you said.

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I remember my last congregation

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we had Christian day school and school would start it 8:00 8:30,

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whatever it was and a lot of the times I want to be there. For sure. And

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and it was a large congregation.

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So the demands of the congregation come at you and then you have your

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folks who are hospitalized in in long-term care facilities. Problem here

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problem

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there all kinds of meetings and it's easy

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to let study time in the word be put on the margins.

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So so that's great.

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I hope the students keep what you said in your mind.

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You said that's a prophet's course.

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Do you cover all the prophets.We try. The curriculum's very different than when I was

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a student here.

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So we figured we should straighten it out.

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So I'm trying to learn the curriculum on the fly here got here just a

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couple weeks before things started and so the prophets courses is one of

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the seven week half semester courses. Major and minor prophets?

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It's called the prophets, right.

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We don't do former prophets though.

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So we're not doing what what you

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and I think of as the historical books.

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We really are doing. You must be an excellent teacher to cover all of this in seven weeks. I don't know we'll find out. I figure with seven weeks that's more than I got to

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spend on them in the Old Testament overview course and that that I

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taught regularly in Ann Arbor.

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So this for me is is a joy to slow down and to spend time really

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digging in the focus of the course is Isaiah.

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And so you're you're kind of building off of that.

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I did Joel and Jonah.

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I try to do things chronologically.

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It was one of the things that never really happened at least I didn't

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recognize it if it did in in my training was walking to the Old

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Testament chronologically. And so I got to a point in my life where I

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thought okay

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I know a lot. I've been

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I've learned a lot and all the courses that I've taken but I can't

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really tell the story from beginning to end of Old Testament in any

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sort of sequential manner.

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I don't know.

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I don't see the whole big picture. My impression is at least a Lutheran Church, Missouri

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Synod problem and perhaps in other denominations too.

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I went to Lutheran grade school.

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It was wonderful.

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We learned this story

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we learned his story and we learned about Jonah and Advent we heard

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about Isaiah, but how it all fit together

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I had no clue.  Yeah, I felt that way quite quite late thinking about heading out

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into the parish and saying I'm not sure I can tell the story.  And so that's

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actually been has been my theme for 16 years at Ann Arbor.

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And before that

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I had the privilege of teaching as a grad student here for those

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coming in who hadn't taken the Old Testament course or needed need a

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refresher.

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I thought okay

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I'm going to teach at the way

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I didn't learn it. Like I said I learned a ton along the way, but normally your

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Old Testament as you know, broken down Torah, writings, prophets or flip

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the other two around but rather than doing that a try and do it very

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chronologically.

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And so that's how we do it in the prophets course. And what

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other courses do you teach?  A couple Hebrew Labs. Watching over some of the Vicars who are doing their Hebrew

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Lab, I think it's great. Could you tell us what it would a lab is?

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Hebrew lab and then there be Greek labs too what does that mean? So in order to help students

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continue in the language is right.

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We value the biblical languages. Luther talked about them being the

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cradle in which our Lord is kept and held or the or the the sheath in

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which the the sword is is kept. And so we value and have always

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valued the languages as a Synod and as Lutherans in general. So we

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want to help our students keep those language skills going and. Because

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the tendency is to under the old curriculum you learn the language and

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then you get into the ministry and you don't use it.

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Yeah, I think I don't know if that's a product of the curriculum or

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not.

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But this this is an attempt to help the students stay in the languages

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through out there four years and on vicarage.

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So this is something I wish I would have had on vicarage which was

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this Hebrew and Greek lab.

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It's about 2 hours of work per week. Is it graded? No. That makes it

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nice I would think.

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Right and it's it's it's very interactional as much as you can do at a

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distance.

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They they study for a little bit maybe 20 minutes or half

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an hour if they look at the text in the original language. Then they

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watch a video of one of the exegetical professors who has who has

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worked through the text very carefully and reads it through in the

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original language with the students and it highlights particular

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things that need to be seen or they could be possible things that

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would be preached on. And these are upcoming text

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so they're not just random text. They're

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text that are coming up in the lectionary.

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And so if a vicar is preaching anytime in the next few weeks, this

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would be a great help.

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But in that way they continue the language skills throughout their

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time.

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So I have a there are numerous sections of the Hebrew and Greek labs

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for vicarage,

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I get to supervise one of them. And then we also have Labs anytime a

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student is not taking an exegetical course an Old or a New Testament

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course then there in a 1 Credit one hour a week lab. Again currently

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not graded not-for-credit, but it keeps us together in the language

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gives us the opportunity to to demonstrate exegetical skills.

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What questions do you ask of a text?

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How do you read a text?

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How do you interact with the text and then to some extent

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how do you apply the text. This is one of the benefits of the new curriculum.

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And looking back at my 15 years as president one of the things that

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that I'm proud of and and I say that in a humble way is the revision

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of the residential curriculum. Because holes were filled and and this

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is one of the holes and that the faculty worked hard in in designing

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the labs the formation hours the whole sequence of the curriculum.

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Yeah.

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I didn't do anything, but they did a great job.

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Maybe we've gotten too far down the road you're talking about Old

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Testament prophets and so on.

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Why bother with the Old Testament, you know, I can go and buy a

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cheaper copy of the Bible

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that just has a New Testament

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maybe the Psalms and that's where God is angry.

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There's no gospel in the Old Testament.

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So, you know, maybe we've gotten too far down the road.

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Could you could you correct it for me?

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Well, I have to because I'm an Old Testament exegete.

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So if I can't do this I shouldn't be here.

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We actually don't know Christ fully if we don't know the Old

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Testament. He tells us how to read the Old Testament and that is.

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I talk to my students about putting your Jesus classes on. We read the Old Testament correctly and

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best when we read seeing the Redemptive work of Christ on every page

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of the scriptures Old Testament and New Testament.

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Yes, that that was drilled into me here.

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You can't say Old Testament is Law and New Testament is Gospel.

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There again, if that's how we think about it

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we don't know Jesus very well.

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Because if you meet Jesus on the mount when he preaches his Sermon on

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the Mount if you don't find any law in there, you're not reading very

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well. And there's beautiful Gospel in the Old Testament.

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Incredible Gospel and this is the joy of this prophet semester. It is heavy you get a prophet like Amos and you have eight and a half

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chapters that are just heavy-hitting primarily law and then you get to

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the last part of the last chapter and it just drips and flows. And

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that's what's going on in this gospel with the the the hills dripping

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with new wine and honey, and and the the restoration that the Lord

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promises through the suffering and at the end of it at all of that. And

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just as you say that it's an invitation to open up the Bible.

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And read Amos, read Isaiah, read it all. And be ready it's going to

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be uncomfortable and I think that's what my prophet students are finding right

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now is this is uncomfortable because we haven't read like this.

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We haven't read carefully enough we've selected stories that we give

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to her to our VBS and Sunday school and that's appropriate. And that's appropriate. We have to do age

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appropriate things but somewhere we tend to fall off of doing age

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appropriate things as we get older and when

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we're ready to hear these things, we don't study as much cuz we're not

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in VBS and we're not in Sunday school.

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Hopefully, you know, we spend all of us spend our entire lives in

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Bible class and in worship and hearing from the lectionary and the

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preaching but.

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But it's a shock when you read these prophets and they are so intense

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and the law is so powerfully thunderingly condemning. And

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condemning in many cases religious people.

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Right.

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Right.

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Oh Yeah, we tend to like read the prophets and we think I should go out on the street corner and proclaim this to the world around me, which is not entirely wrong. But he prophets were proclaiming to

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God's people not to the general populace of the world.

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And and yes, there's words of law for all people cuz all are

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sinners and have the fallen short.

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But this these words are meant for us as church and when we stop and

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think about that that's tough.

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So yeah, it's a challenge but the gospel becomes so much more

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beautiful and and and edifying satisfying relieving solving all of

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that.

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When you heard the thundering roar of Amos or the of the Lord

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through Amos or and all these different images we can come up with. One

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of one of the old sayings is.

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You remind me of this.

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The New Testament is concealed in the old the Old Testament is

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revealed in the new and and and that's law and gospel we understand

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Jesus much much better from our studies of the Old Testament.

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I wish I were young and having you for prophets know. It be a lot of fun. This has been

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fascinating.

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We invite you to stay with us to take a short break now, but will get

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into the books of Nehemiah and Esther with Doctor Penhallegon.

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Concordia Seminary St.

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Louis provides continuing education resources for pastors and lay

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people to discover all the Concordia Seminary has for you visit us on

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the web at CSL.

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EDU.

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Welcome back to Word and Work an Intersection.

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I'm your host Dale Meyer. Today our guest is Dr.

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Phil Penhallegon.

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Dr.

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Penhallegon is a professor of Exegetical theology here at Concordia

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Seminary.

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One of the things I didn't ask in in our first segment is about your

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children. Yes. Tell us? My wife and I are blessed with four children, Ben and Micah, Gabriel and Abigail. They are all Old

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Testament names?

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Gabe is the angel that appears in both. So we started to work our way towards it.  So they range Abby is our youngest 19 sophomore at

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Concordia

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Ann Arbor and Ben is 24 and he's actually here with us now. Micah and

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Gabriel both back in Michigan. Gabe at Concordia Ann Arbor and

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Micah working and looking trying to figure out what's next whether it's

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Police Academy could be Seminary,

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nobody knows. Law and Gospel. Serving people is really what its all about. Never pushed them into Church work.

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We've invited them and told them all along

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whatever you're vocation is as long as you're you're serving

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people in love,

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we're good.

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Great.

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It is the first segment you talked about exhorting your students to

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dive deep into a book two books.

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Nehemiah is one of your deep dives.

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How'd you get interested in Nehemiah?

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During a course here with Paul Raabe graduate-level course in the

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Book of Daniel, Daniel chapter 9, long narrative prayer. And seems it was

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probably probably an offhand comment

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he made about how Lutheran's don't study prayer and we really ought to

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have people working on that topic.

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I was looking for a dissertation topic at the time and so was very

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interested in this idea of exploring biblical prayers.

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And so when it came time to actually nail down the dissertation, I did

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all kinds of exploring all the all the prayers in the Old Testament

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couple great books that that already do kind of a panoramic view of those

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things.

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Nehemiah wasn't really on my radar but Nehemiah 9 and Ezra 9 I know

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why they're all nines

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I don't know but none of these great long narrative prayers of the Old

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Testament.

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And so that I started digging into Nehemiah and realized

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okay, the book opens practically with a prayer verse 5 to 11, which

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sets the tone for the whole book. And then I started reading and

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recognizing oh wait they keep mentioning prayer and then there are these

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prayers that pop out of the narrative frame and are addressed

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directly to God rather than you know hearing this is what someone

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prayed the prayer in the text.

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And so that intrigued me and so I landed on Nehemiah and and spent

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number of years trying to trying to work this out and get an

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understanding what was going on with the prayers. Which means you have

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to understand the whole narrative and and all that so. That's interesting it's something I know nothing about.

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In my experience the Old Testament prayer that pops up is Solomon's

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Prayer at the dedication of the temple. And very similar. The word usage and the prayer usage are

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very similar.

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Could you tell us more about Nehemiah's prayers? Yeah,  well Nehemiah. So I am doing this in my Hebrew Lab right now. We pick a text and since I happen to to know fair amount about

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Nehemiah

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that's where we started.

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We're reading through the first chapter and and I'm demonstrating to the

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students.

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How as you read through the the prayer and Nehemiah 1 he hears this

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report that the walls of Jerusalem a broken down and Gates have been

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burnt with fire in the people are in disgrace and distress.

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And and then he enters you here is the report about him fasting and

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praying for days. And then he gives to us the words of this prayer that

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he prayed day and night from we don't know how many days but he

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indicates it's an ongoing process.

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Then he addresses God with all of this wonderful language confessing

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who God is and in that confession what he's expecting from God. He

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confesses his sins and the sins of the people and then he goes into

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his request. And so it's a great model prayer for us to think about how

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we might pray and then he reiterates it briefly and then the text moves

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on and you see how Nehemiah is working to restore. Everybody knows if

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you know anything about Nehemiah that the wall of Jerusalem was rebuilt

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in 52 days. But the story doesn't end there because Nehemiah is

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really there with concern for the people of Jerusalem as well and the

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province of the Persian province of Yehud and in so we see God

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working through Nehemiah to not restore his City, but the people in

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the in the city and in the region. And then we get to Nehemiah 9 where

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we see

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again, a long confessional prayer that narrates the history of

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God's people and their rebellion against God. And this one has a strange

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ending because it ends with we are in distress.

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Amen. The implication that now, okay God, we're waiting and that's what we do. Right.

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We wait in faith as we confess to the Lord our sins and iniquities

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and then we wait for him to do his thing as it has done in Christ.

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Is it similar to the Psalms?

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There are some similarities. Yeah.  It's just that these are these are narrative style prose prayers rather

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than being poetry.

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And so you don't have the same the most part you don't have the same

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sort of parallelism going on. Parallelism for our audience means? So when you are dealing with the Psalms and the prophets in general

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because the prophets are very much many of them written in poetic form.

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Parallelism being how it when you when you read a piece of poetry

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especially biblical poetry, line

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A line B line B might repeat what line A says it might change it just

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a little bit all kinds of dialogue and discussion about how exactly

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all of this works.

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But God is our refuge and strength line A very present help in trouble

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line B. Yeah.  And sometimes line B goes a different direction and sometimes it says the same thing but we

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invert word order or there sound plays going on.

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Another reason for our students to to learn Hebrew to be able

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to appreciate the incredible beauty of the Poetry that we can't bring

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into English.

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In all of its facets, right, we can still bring it in. The King James is

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a loved translation because of the beauty of its language and

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it worked hard to to replicate some of that beauty, but they can't we

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can't do it all. You have to choose

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what facets are you bringing into another language. When the program is

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over

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I'm going to have to go read the prayers of Nehemiah. And part of the

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reason for saying that

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is that we called you to the Concordia Seminary because you're a pastor

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at heart.

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You're not an ivory tower theologian.

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I mean, you know how to climb the Ivory Tower and do a theology at the

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highest levels, but your pastor at heart and in so he here comes just

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a parishioners question.

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I find it hard to pray for long extended periods of time.

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I can I can shoot what I think Dr.

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Franzmann called a dart prayer. Dart prayers. Yeah, right. I do that often but to sit down

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kind of being in the ASAP person in an ASAP world,

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I find that hard.  Do you have any comment pastor and scholar? I find it hard as well.

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And I think we all go through mountains and valleys within our

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devotional life as well.

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And and there are times

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I think when I find that this is really no challenge at all.

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I have so many things to think about and to pray about and just

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praying Luther's morning prayer and we get to those words into your

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hands I commend.

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Yeah, what is it that I commend?

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This has been,

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this is my current prayer practice for me is to pray that every day

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and then to stop at that point.

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And to just think about all of the people and events and

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situations that I need to commend into the Lord's hands trusting that

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he's got them as he promised that he does. And that that has really

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been a help to me.

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And so then pastorally we can pass this on and we encourage more

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people that, yeah. Now devotional life one takes work.

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We don't want it to have to be work but it's work to sit down and

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discipline ourselves to read the scriptures and then to enter into

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prayer and take the time for it.

473
00:31:22.600 --> 00:31:29.200
It's not just listening in your earbuds to some devotion, which I

474
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:30.600
guess. It can be part of it.

475
00:31:30.600 --> 00:31:34.000
You can do that part of it. Yeah. But the other part is. We got to be feed by the Word. Right. But

476
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:39.000
the way, the other part is reacting engaging laying out.

477
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:48.500
The things that Nehemiah lays out. Right. If you do sit down and read Nehemiah again this afternoon well, you're going to find that he also

478
00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:51.700
has these prayers that jump out of the text and these are the ones

479
00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:52.600
that grabbed me.

480
00:31:52.600 --> 00:31:56.400
I didn't realize they were there but you reading these narrative

481
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:01.700
prayers which fit nicely into the flow of the text and make great

482
00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:05.500
sense hold it all together, but bam there are these prayers that jump off

483
00:32:05.500 --> 00:32:06.900
the page remember me

484
00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:13.000
Oh God because of. Where did that come from and they're sort of startling and to step back

485
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:13.700
and think about oh

486
00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:17.300
Nehemiah is telling us his story.

487
00:32:17.300 --> 00:32:21.800
But even in the midst of telling us this he's praying to God and these

488
00:32:21.800 --> 00:32:23.800
are sorted dart or arrow prayers.

489
00:32:23.800 --> 00:32:30.200
I remember an older pastor, he since passed on, we have a conversation he be chairing

490
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:33.400
a meeting and all of a sudden going to a meeting dear God help

491
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:34.500
us...... something like that. Yeah. So I will read Nehemiah

492
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:44.000
this afternoon after my nap I'm retired I can do that.

493
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:46.000
I'll put off the shuffleboard game.

494
00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.900
But your other area of deep dive interest is Esther.

495
00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:52.400
How'd you get into Esther?

496
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:56.800
Yeah, again kind of fell into it.

497
00:32:56.800 --> 00:32:59.000
It's my wife's favorite book.

498
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:05.700
And so it's good for me to know this book of course. While working on

499
00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:09.900
Nehemiah and my dissertation and being at Concordia Ann Arbor.

500
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:15.200
Concordia Publishing House asked if I could write a bible study on

501
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:15.400
Esther.

502
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:18.400
I think it's "God's Word for Today Series."

503
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:26.100
And I said sure cuz I'm not good at saying no to things. And they pay

504
00:33:26.100 --> 00:33:32.000
you. Yes, right and it really was was great for me.

505
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.900
I knew the story of Esther or I thought I knew the story of Esther that's

506
00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:36.800
what we find all the time.

507
00:33:36.800 --> 00:33:38.400
Right when we finally dive into these things

508
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:45.900
oh maybe I didn't know all of this. So it really was writing for, CPH, Concordia Publishing House

509
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:50.400
that that got me into the Book of Esther and then they said well,

510
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:55.000
would you consider carrying this the next step and and working for the

511
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:58.100
Commentary Series. Don't have the contract yet

512
00:33:58.100 --> 00:34:01.800
cuz I haven't found the time to finish up the prospectus and proposal

513
00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:03.600
but our plan is to work together on that.

514
00:34:03.600 --> 00:34:09.700
I work on it regularly, maybe not as focused as I'd like at times as we

515
00:34:09.700 --> 00:34:11.100
were talking a few minutes ago.

516
00:34:11.100 --> 00:34:15.000
Have you read my commentary on 1st Peter?

517
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.000
It was supposed to come out about 20 years ago.

518
00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:22.200
We get that. Digging deep.

519
00:34:23.200 --> 00:34:26.100
Esther is is about what? I mean

520
00:34:26.100 --> 00:34:29.200
just give us a summary of the book short summary.

521
00:34:32.300 --> 00:34:35.800
Reading the book.

522
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:41.100
You're going to think it's about Esther and maybe Mordecai.

523
00:34:43.700 --> 00:34:47.000
But really it's it's it's like all of the other scriptures.

524
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:50.400
It's a story of God's salvation of his people. Now,

525
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:57.700
yes, Esther, Mordecai main main players in this narrative, but I always

526
00:34:57.700 --> 00:35:02.300
like to keep the focus on here is how God was at work to do his thing.

527
00:35:02.300 --> 00:35:07.400
And so you have God's people facing annihilation in the

528
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:21.400
Persia and Susa. Literally. Yeah, right. Literally. Because you got your bad guy. Genocide. You got your stage left bad guy coming in and and

529
00:35:23.900 --> 00:35:27.900
proposing to the king who seems to take people's proposals quite

530
00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:28.100
easily.

531
00:35:28.100 --> 00:35:31.800
There's those people who just don't do everything the way the rest of

532
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:32.200
the world

533
00:35:32.200 --> 00:35:33.400
does it the way you want it done.

534
00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:37.400
Let's get rid of them. And the king said sure

535
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:38.800
here's my signet-ring go do it.

536
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:49.300
And and the story is is how God works through Ester who's a Judahite

537
00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:57.100
young lady in the capital Susa. And he works through her and her cousin

538
00:35:57.100 --> 00:36:03.100
Mordecai to save these people through whom he's going to bring his

539
00:36:03.100 --> 00:36:09.900
promised son and so. The thing people often mention about the book of Esther is God is not mentioned

540
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:15.500
and that is striking and people have been uncomfortable with this from

541
00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:18.500
the beginning I think. Because from the beginning of this book because

542
00:36:18.500 --> 00:36:22.700
the the Greek version of the book and there are a couple different

543
00:36:22.700 --> 00:36:27.500
Greek versions add in a whole bunch of pieces to the narrative so that

544
00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:33.600
the whole book becomes this nice Pius story you have prayer and you

545
00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:39.200
have all of the elements you'd expect. And you can't go to Esther if you want to study prayer. It's kind of like the

546
00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:48.500
doctrinal reviewer said you need to add all of the this. All the good stuff is missing. Which I should explain to the audience. The things that we

547
00:36:48.500 --> 00:36:53.300
prepare in our church usually go through a process called doctrinal

548
00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:53.700
review.

549
00:36:53.700 --> 00:36:57.500
You know is its peer review you get somebody to look at it and say, you

550
00:36:57.500 --> 00:37:01.900
know is is this correct from our understanding the scriptures and Lutheran

551
00:37:01.900 --> 00:37:02.600
Confessions. Yeah.

552
00:37:02.600 --> 00:37:05.400
So it's like the doctrinal reviewer said you got to get some God in there. Yeah, right. God is on every page of Esther if your willing to see it.

553
00:37:11.100 --> 00:37:15.900
God is in control of all of the events taking place and you do see

554
00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:19.600
them fasting and anywhere else in the Old Testament among God's people

555
00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:22.700
when they're fasting they're praying but they don't tell you that but

556
00:37:22.700 --> 00:37:23.500
you can figure that out.

557
00:37:23.500 --> 00:37:28.900
And so so it's really it's a fascinating book. And it's in some ways so

558
00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:32.600
applicable to us because it looks more like our lives than when you

559
00:37:32.600 --> 00:37:35.600
read the Abraham narrative and God is speaking to Abraham.

560
00:37:35.600 --> 00:37:45.600
God has never addressed me audibly on my own apart from my pastor

561
00:37:45.600 --> 00:37:48.900
speaking the words of God to me or a fellow Christian speaking the words

562
00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:49.400
of God to me.

563
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.600
I've never heard the voice of God neither did Esther neither did Mordecai

564
00:37:53.600 --> 00:37:59.400
and and they lived faithfully in their time and did what was theirs to

565
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:01.500
do. As we were preparing for the program

566
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:06.300
you mentioned that there are some historical inaccuracies or something

567
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:06.700
with the

568
00:38:07.900 --> 00:38:11.200
Esther and and history that needs a proper explanation. I'm not sure I would say it that way.

569
00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:22.400
It is hard to correlate the names in Esther exactly with known

570
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:23.500
historical figures.

571
00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:27.700
Okay. And probably Darius or Xerxes

572
00:38:27.700 --> 00:38:30.600
definitely a historical figure no doubt about it.

573
00:38:30.600 --> 00:38:39.600
But the the plot of Esther really kicks off when Xerxes Queen Vashti

574
00:38:39.600 --> 00:38:44.690
refuses to come out and show off her beauty and she's deposed. Well no

575
00:38:44.690 --> 00:38:51.300
one can find Vashti in any outside of the Bible accounts and

576
00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:55.690
we don't have a record of an Esther or record of Mordecai.

577
00:38:55.690 --> 00:38:57.600
Although there are names of a similar to Mordecai.

578
00:38:59.500 --> 00:39:02.800
But there are so many things buried in the sands of time that we

579
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:06.500
haven't seen yet, right. There was a time when no one believed that the

580
00:39:06.500 --> 00:39:13.900
Hittites existed so Eastern Turkey north of Syria, the Hittite Empire

581
00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:18.200
scriptures talk about it all the time and it in critical Scholars were

582
00:39:18.200 --> 00:39:21.800
saying that's just a Biblical myth until they actually found the

583
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:22.200
Hittite Empire.

584
00:39:22.200 --> 00:39:30.000
So that's true. New Testament archaeology as well. Yeah. We can't use archeology to prove the faith.

585
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.900
One one thing you find seems like it prove something the next thing he

586
00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:39.800
finds out will have to reconsider that. But it is it is a great way to

587
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:43.700
understand the context in which these biblical people live.

588
00:39:43.700 --> 00:39:46.900
So now you've been talking these last minutes as a scholar but you

589
00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:52.200
obviously are but you also served as a pastor, a vacancy Pastor, what's

590
00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:55.600
the differences between professor and pastor? Well being a professor here you better be a pastor. Alright.

591
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:04.400
We're training people to go be pastors or deaconesses

592
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:06.700
and serve in the church in that way.

593
00:40:08.600 --> 00:40:11.200
So my professorial roll

594
00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:12.100
that's what I'm doing.

595
00:40:12.100 --> 00:40:12.700
I'm here

596
00:40:12.700 --> 00:40:17.400
I have to be a scholar but I also need that experience of of living

597
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:21.200
with people in a congregation in their lives and being a part of

598
00:40:21.200 --> 00:40:24.900
their lives and bringing the word directly into their lives. Crying

599
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:29.300
with them singing with them praising with them rejoicing being

600
00:40:29.300 --> 00:40:33.200
being a part of people's lives in the in their daily lives. And

601
00:40:33.200 --> 00:40:38.500
bringing the word of God to people both audibly and in the sacraments,

602
00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:40.300
so.

603
00:40:41.700 --> 00:40:46.400
It is a joy to get to do it all actually. One of the reasons

604
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.200
why we're so glad you've joined us here Concordia Seminary is because

605
00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:54.400
you have a reputation as relating very well to students at college, Okay.

606
00:40:54.400 --> 00:41:00.400
And could you tell us a little bit about that and and contrast college

607
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:01.500
students and seminarians?

608
00:41:05.100 --> 00:41:09.100
I push myself hard and I push my students hard.

609
00:41:10.900 --> 00:41:12.600
But not without supporting them.

610
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:20.400
And in my students who are willing to work recognize that and tend to

611
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:24.600
come back and say thank you. And praise and glory be to God.

612
00:41:24.600 --> 00:41:34.400
I love the relational aspect of of this professorial ministry. I dealt with  a lot of

613
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.700
freshmen, especially in my last year's at Concordia Ann Arbor.

614
00:41:37.700 --> 00:41:42.700
So they're just coming they're the age of my kids so I can understand

615
00:41:42.700 --> 00:41:49.300
them better than when I got there. Here and here I've only been teaching six of the

616
00:41:49.300 --> 00:41:50.500
eight weeks that we've been here.

617
00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:54.800
It has been a little bit of a revelation remembering that there are

618
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:57.500
further down the road and many of them have had a few years of

619
00:41:57.500 --> 00:42:00.700
experience even beyond college or many years of experience beyond

620
00:42:00.700 --> 00:42:01.300
college.

621
00:42:01.300 --> 00:42:06.600
So so I'm still getting used to the different the different place in

622
00:42:06.600 --> 00:42:08.200
life that these students are. It's a lot of fun.

623
00:42:08.200 --> 00:42:12.800
I've had some really great conversations as I get to know the

624
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:13.200
students.

625
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:17.300
It's a niche student body and when they come back from vicarage, you can

626
00:42:17.300 --> 00:42:27.700
see the change in maturation. Yeah, I'm excited to see that. Well I have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation today Phil, Doctor Penhallegon.

627
00:42:27.700 --> 00:42:33.800
As I said after my nap, I'll delay shuffleboard to read the prayers of

628
00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:38.700
Nehemiah and and I am just so thrilled you you you've joined us here at

629
00:42:38.700 --> 00:42:43.200
Concordia Seminary. You're on the faculty and in your another reason

630
00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:45.300
why you know, it's just a great time to be at the Seminary.

631
00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:48.900
It's a great time to be getting into the ministry. And I want to thank

632
00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:51.700
you our audience for being with us today.

633
00:42:51.700 --> 00:42:54.000
This has been a stimulating conversation.

634
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.100
I hope you benefited from it.

635
00:42:57.100 --> 00:43:01.700
I certainly have I hope your Doctor Penhallegon have benefited from it.

636
00:43:01.700 --> 00:43:06.300
And my prayer is that the intersection of Word and Work will be busy on

637
00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:07.100
your corner.