WEBVTT 1 00:00:24.100 --> 00:00:27.300 Hello and welcome to Word and Work an Intersection. 2 00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:29.100 I'm your host Dale Meyer. 3 00:00:29.100 --> 00:00:34.900 This hour will talk with Reverend William Engfehr. Pastor Engfehr is 4 00:00:34.900 --> 00:00:40.100 currently a vacancy pastor, but he has 27 years experience as a 5 00:00:40.100 --> 00:00:45.900 Chaplain for the Illinois State Police. Being a chaplain in today's 6 00:00:45.900 --> 00:00:46.300 world, 7 00:00:46.300 --> 00:00:50.500 wow, and that's what our Word and Work Intersection 8 00:00:50.500 --> 00:00:52.900 today is. Welcome Bill. 9 00:00:52.900 --> 00:00:57.100 Thanks for being here you and I have known each other for a long time 10 00:00:57.100 --> 00:00:57.600 I beg. 11 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:05.000 Yeah, we both had dark hair when we first met. That was Seminary days 12 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.800 or shortly thereafter you you were 13 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:16.100 Pastor in Cahokia, Illinois, correct. Yes. I think we first met actually at an LLL meeting and I was the only Pastor who 14 00:01:16.100 --> 00:01:19.600 came. Yeah, that would happen yeah that would happen. 15 00:01:19.600 --> 00:01:26.500 So all these decades really and now you got some bling 16 00:01:26.500 --> 00:01:29.800 there that has to do with your Chaplaincy with the State Police? 17 00:01:29.800 --> 00:01:34.300 Yes, as you said, I've been a chaplain with Illinois State Police for 18 00:01:34.300 --> 00:01:35.400 27 years. 19 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:42.500 It's been very interesting and fulfilling ministry as kind of a side 20 00:01:42.500 --> 00:01:44.400 Ministry to being a parish pastor. 21 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:49.100 Does that badge help you when you get pulled over for speeding? It's very 22 00:01:49.100 --> 00:01:50.700 embarrassing if you get pulled over. 23 00:01:51.800 --> 00:01:57.700 Well what we like to do here on Word and Work is first of all find out 24 00:01:57.700 --> 00:02:02.000 about you the person and I recall that you have Michigan roots. 25 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:04.700 Take us back there and tell us how your life's journey has gone. 26 00:02:04.700 --> 00:02:05.200 Okay. 27 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:12.800 Well, I grew up in a suburb of Detroit and went through public schools 28 00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:19.100 there and then started my college education at Concordia in Ann Arbor, 29 00:02:19.100 --> 00:02:19.400 Michigan. 30 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:26.100 The old system was in place so that I went to the Senior college in 31 00:02:26.100 --> 00:02:30.900 Fort Wayne, Indiana and then came here to Concordia Seminary and 32 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:32.400 graduated in 1978. 33 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:33.900 What prompted you to enter the ministry? 34 00:02:34.900 --> 00:02:41.000 Well as I look back on it, I think a couple of things happened and 35 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:46.300 one of the biggest was the influence of my mother. Who when we were 36 00:02:46.300 --> 00:02:49.900 little children, we had one car and my dad work shift work, and she 37 00:02:49.900 --> 00:02:53.800 would pile three little kids in the car on Sunday morning still in our 38 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:58.000 pajamas in order to take my dad to work in order to come back get us 39 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:02.100 ready and take us to the Sunday School and church. So she was a very 40 00:03:02.100 --> 00:03:08.900 important influence in my early life, and then the other thing that 41 00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:13.200 really was important was the influence of my pastor. 42 00:03:13.200 --> 00:03:20.000 I think he had identified me potentially as a pastor, but never told 43 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:24.300 me and he kept pushing me into things like, oh we're having a youth 44 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:24.700 service. 45 00:03:24.700 --> 00:03:28.500 Would you read the lessons and we need somebody to teach Sunday 46 00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:28.600 school. 47 00:03:28.600 --> 00:03:33.700 Would you teach Sunday school and he just kept exposing me to 48 00:03:33.700 --> 00:03:34.800 different aspects of 49 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:40.200 ministry. Was that at Southgate do I remember correctly? Yes. Peace in Southgate Michigan. 50 00:03:40.200 --> 00:03:48.700 Pastor Herberding? No, Robert Mueller. Robert Mueller okay. We've noticed over the years at that 51 00:03:48.700 --> 00:03:54.400 some pastors are not gently encouraging young men into the ministry 52 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:57.200 and then please please do that, 53 00:03:57.200 --> 00:04:00.800 we need the students. I'm glad he did that. 54 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:10.300 So that was probably the two main things that influence me. And I 55 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:16.390 remember being at a youth camp Lutheran youth camp in upper Michigan. 56 00:04:16.390 --> 00:04:21.300 I think between my Junior and Senior year of high school and you now we're 57 00:04:21.300 --> 00:04:24.200 sitting around the campfire and the counselor says we're going to go 58 00:04:24.200 --> 00:04:24.900 around everybody and 59 00:04:24.900 --> 00:04:26.900 say what your plans are. 60 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:32.800 And came to me and I'm glad it wasn't the first one cuz I kept trying 61 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.300 to take what am I going to say and out of my mouth. 62 00:04:35.300 --> 00:04:39.100 I said I'm going to be a pastor and that's first time I remember 63 00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:41.400 actually saying that out loud. 64 00:04:41.400 --> 00:04:50.100 So so definitely a Holy Spirit moment. So you said you graduated in 1978? Yes. varied career you have many talents take us 65 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:51.500 through your career. 66 00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:56.200 Okay while I was a student at the Seminary. 67 00:04:56.200 --> 00:05:02.600 I had an opportunity to work in the TV studios as a student worker and 68 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:05.700 found I had some aptitude in that but that was never what I really 69 00:05:05.700 --> 00:05:06.300 wanted to do. 70 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:07.700 I want to be a pair of faster. 71 00:05:07.700 --> 00:05:13.200 So when I graduated I was assigned to a congregation just across the 72 00:05:13.200 --> 00:05:14.000 river from St. 73 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:18.900 Louis in Cahokia, Illinois, and it was a small church was rebuilding 74 00:05:18.900 --> 00:05:24.000 after some difficulties and I was asked by the cemetery if I could 75 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.200 afford two days a week to come back and continue to do 76 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:29.400 Audio visual Work Media work. 77 00:05:29.400 --> 00:05:33.100 So I did did that for a couple of years. 78 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:38.400 And then I told the Seminary I said it can't the parishes is growing 79 00:05:38.400 --> 00:05:41.100 and I just can't do both of these things at once. 80 00:05:41.100 --> 00:05:43.500 So I'm done and 81 00:05:44.700 --> 00:05:48.000 Person who became a dear friend was the president of the Seminary 82 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:51.100 Ralph Bowman said Bill. 83 00:05:51.100 --> 00:05:57.900 We need you full-time and Seminary called me and I worked here for 84 00:05:57.900 --> 00:06:03.500 almost 5 years full time doing it was director of educational media. 85 00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:05.400 Nobody knew what that meant, which was good. 86 00:06:05.400 --> 00:06:07.000 Cuz then I could do whatever I wanted. 87 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.800 They pull your legacy continues. 88 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:16.200 Let me hear we are so and from there the Senate built the 89 00:06:16.200 --> 00:06:18.800 International Center in Suburban St. 90 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.800 Louis thought they do the TV studios here at the Seminary and realize 91 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:28.200 that wasn't real practical so they asked me to come in and take a 92 00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:31.900 storage space and turn it into a video production facility. 93 00:06:31.900 --> 00:06:36.900 So I did and we had one of the best in the st. 94 00:06:36.900 --> 00:06:39.900 Louis area and I did that for 10 years. 95 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:42.600 I remember the quality now. 96 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:43.500 It was very good. 97 00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:49.100 We would have even Broadcast News people come in and do things for I 98 00:06:49.100 --> 00:06:52.400 send and they all said to all we wish we had a place like this. 99 00:06:52.400 --> 00:07:00.200 So it was it was top-notch and then I went back to my first love and 100 00:07:00.200 --> 00:07:03.500 that's Parish Ministry and her did you do that? 101 00:07:03.500 --> 00:07:05.500 That's the crazy thing. 102 00:07:05.500 --> 00:07:08.200 I was all that time. 103 00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:13.500 I was a member at a church in Collinsville and I became a member of 104 00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:17.300 that church because some guy was the senior pastor there and I really 105 00:07:17.300 --> 00:07:17.800 like them. 106 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:19.000 I think his name was Dale Mayer. 107 00:07:19.900 --> 00:07:24.900 And so I was a member there we could have somebody put him in a lie 108 00:07:24.900 --> 00:07:32.500 detector vacancy occurs. 109 00:07:32.500 --> 00:07:38.600 This was after you were gone from there but a bankruptcy occurred and 110 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:42.700 the congregation called me and I thought I can get back to Parish 111 00:07:42.700 --> 00:07:43.300 Ministry. 112 00:07:43.300 --> 00:07:44.600 I don't have to move. 113 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.100 My kids are already in school down the hall. 114 00:07:48.500 --> 00:07:49.400 And I did that. 115 00:07:49.400 --> 00:07:53.900 So then I served in at Holy Cross in Collinsville for 20 years. 116 00:07:53.900 --> 00:08:03.900 I was going to say was a long time ago and decided to to do in from 117 00:08:03.900 --> 00:08:08.900 work and I'm now serving the forest and trim that I've done in like 7 118 00:08:08.900 --> 00:08:14.400 months the first one a year the next 1/2 and 1/2 year the last one and 119 00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:20.800 is it that the forgive the question but it is that easier than being 120 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:24.100 the called full-time Pastor? 121 00:08:24.100 --> 00:08:29.000 Yes it is it is and you probably don't have the burden on your 122 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:33.000 shoulders like you do as a call Brian Pastor. 123 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:40.200 I mean you provide Extra Care and and all this at but there is a 124 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:43.000 definitely a different feeling because you're their interim for one 125 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.800 thing people appreciate you cuz they know the pulpit would be empty if 126 00:08:46.800 --> 00:08:47.200 you work there. 127 00:08:48.400 --> 00:08:52.000 Did a lot of accolades that we both know when you're the full-time 128 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.700 call Pastor appreciation. 129 00:08:54.700 --> 00:09:03.000 We want to talk about chaplaincy. 130 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.000 How did you get involved in police work? 131 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:12.500 Well, when I went to Parish Ministry at Holy Cross in Collinsville, I 132 00:09:12.500 --> 00:09:16.300 always felt that of course taking care of the members of the 133 00:09:16.300 --> 00:09:20.600 congregation is extremely important, but you also have a role to play 134 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.500 in the community and as you know, Holy Cross if you take the 135 00:09:24.500 --> 00:09:28.800 membership at Holy Cross, it's a tenth of the population of the of the 136 00:09:28.800 --> 00:09:30.000 city that we lived in. 137 00:09:30.700 --> 00:09:34.000 Oh, I'm so I want to find something to do in the community and I I 138 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:36.000 tried out a few things. 139 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:39.800 I went to a Kiwanis meeting and Lions Club meeting great 140 00:09:39.800 --> 00:09:42.300 organizations, but it just didn't quite click. 141 00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:47.000 And that was actually for a tragedy that I got introduced to police 142 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:47.600 chaplaincy. 143 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:53.600 I got a call one day from the city police department and they asked if 144 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:57.500 someone so is a member of my church and I said, yes, they said could 145 00:09:57.500 --> 00:09:58.800 you come to their house? 146 00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:07.400 We need some help turns out they had found the church newsletter are 147 00:10:07.400 --> 00:10:11.700 they said that this woman had committed suicide. 148 00:10:11.700 --> 00:10:20.200 She was her family was about to be evicted from their home and she had 149 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.200 gone somewhere else not at home, but I committed suicide and I ended 150 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.900 up there the whole day ministering to her husband to her two young 151 00:10:28.900 --> 00:10:33.200 children to her parents when they arrived but I know there's something 152 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.700 else to that were allowed police officers are investigating and all of 153 00:10:37.700 --> 00:10:43.100 that and as I left that day I said to the assistant police 154 00:10:43.300 --> 00:10:44.600 People is a member of our church. 155 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:48.300 I said who takes care of you guys when you have to deal with stuff 156 00:10:48.300 --> 00:10:53.900 like this and he said well the chaplain if we had one and that got me 157 00:10:53.900 --> 00:10:58.500 thinking I went back later and ask him I said, so could I be the 158 00:10:58.500 --> 00:10:59.100 chaplain? 159 00:10:59.100 --> 00:11:03.900 He said I'll ask the Chief and now this is 27 years ago. 160 00:11:03.900 --> 00:11:08.000 The chief said nah, we don't need anything like that tighten your belt 161 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:14.500 and deal with it, which was old school and it was just like two months 162 00:11:14.500 --> 00:11:17.600 later that I found out the state police were looking for chaplains, 163 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:20.000 and I applied for that and got accepted. 164 00:11:21.400 --> 00:11:25.800 Been doing it ever since did you go through extensive training and we 165 00:11:25.800 --> 00:11:27.100 did go through some training. 166 00:11:27.100 --> 00:11:31.100 A lot of the training is on-the-job training. 167 00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:35.900 But yes, there is there's orientation and training and since then I've 168 00:11:35.900 --> 00:11:40.300 added a lot of knowledge through various courses and things like that 169 00:11:40.300 --> 00:11:44.100 and then of course years and years of experience, how is the job 170 00:11:44.100 --> 00:11:45.100 changed over the years? 171 00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:55.100 One of the things changed I think is the way police are perceived in 172 00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:55.800 the community. 173 00:11:55.800 --> 00:11:58.700 And in the last several years. 174 00:11:58.700 --> 00:12:02.500 It's just been a very different. 175 00:12:03.100 --> 00:12:09.700 Feeling used to be unless you were caught speeding or something police 176 00:12:09.700 --> 00:12:10.700 were appreciate it. 177 00:12:10.700 --> 00:12:14.400 But now there's a lot of people that just, you know, kind of have a 178 00:12:14.400 --> 00:12:22.800 blanket hatred or dislike for police and that that really changes a 179 00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:28.600 lot of things for the police officers had a whole nother level of 180 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:34.200 stress plus I think the the danger level of being a police officer has 181 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:40.800 gone up to and that changes a lot of things to do you Minister mainly 182 00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:48.200 to the police officers police chaplain program was put together its 183 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:54.800 first goal was to provide help and support for the Troopers. 184 00:12:54.800 --> 00:12:57.400 So it's providing 185 00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:02.800 Physical emotional and spiritual support for the Troopers but the 186 00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:08.200 secondary purpose is to assist the Troopers as they interact with the 187 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:14.600 public which usually means victims of trauma violence or crime things 188 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:15.000 like that. 189 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:20.700 So so it's both an but the first goal is to help keep Troopers healthy 190 00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:26.000 and and that's expanded even to include all the other Personnel that 191 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:33.300 work for the police like telecommunicators are dispatchers office 192 00:13:33.300 --> 00:13:33.800 staff. 193 00:13:34.900 --> 00:13:39.800 Really anybody do you have a story that you can share anonymously, of 194 00:13:39.800 --> 00:13:43.800 course about your ministry to a police officer? 195 00:13:46.900 --> 00:13:50.600 Well, there's a there's 27 years worth. And what as you said anonymously. 196 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:57.000 And what I see what I share, I'm not going to go into details because 197 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:02.600 confidentiality is is an important part of it, but I'll tell you a 198 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:03.700 funny one first. 199 00:14:03.700 --> 00:14:11.100 This is a serious topic. It is. Understandably so but a little. So one day 200 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:16.800 I was in headquarters and down the halls several officers 201 00:14:16.800 --> 00:14:20.400 were gathering before their shift and they were getting into a little 202 00:14:20.400 --> 00:14:26.500 argument with each other friendly argument. But I could hear down the 203 00:14:26.500 --> 00:14:30.100 halls of voices rasied and I could hear one of the officers using 204 00:14:30.100 --> 00:14:31.100 inappropriate language. 205 00:14:31.100 --> 00:14:32.600 I call it inappropriate language. 206 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:37.600 We'll just leave it at. So I walked down the hall and I and I stood in 207 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:40.400 the doorway. Well he had his back to the doorway. 208 00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:43.900 Everybody else in the room saw that the chaplain is now standing 209 00:14:43.900 --> 00:14:46.100 in the doorway and he's still going on and on and on. Finally he 210 00:14:46.900 --> 00:14:51.400 realizes nobody else is talking. And he turns around and he looks and 211 00:14:51.400 --> 00:14:52.800 of course, he turns beat red. 212 00:14:53.900 --> 00:15:02.900 Oh Rev, I'm sorry and I looked at him and said well tell you what I've heard all that 213 00:15:02.900 --> 00:15:07.400 language before I just choose not to use it. And that open up a 214 00:15:07.400 --> 00:15:11.800 dialogue that we continued every time we saw each other and it really 215 00:15:11.800 --> 00:15:17.200 it really helped him kind of rethink some of the ways he was doing things. 216 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:20.300 I'm not sure it completely cleaned up his language, but he looked over his shoulder 217 00:15:20.300 --> 00:15:25.300 before he said anything. That's an improvement. Does the state give you a 218 00:15:25.300 --> 00:15:33.900 confessional booth? No. The confessional booth is often the squad car. 219 00:15:33.900 --> 00:15:40.300 So one of the ways you get to know the Troopers is by riding with them. 220 00:15:40.300 --> 00:15:42.500 Just riding with them. Just riding, just riding. 221 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:50.400 And I always try to ride most of a shift because if you're only there 222 00:15:50.400 --> 00:15:54.600 an hour or two, you might completely miss the nuances of what it's 223 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.700 like in a 10 hour shift. 224 00:15:57.700 --> 00:16:03.100 There might be 9 hours of boredom followed by one hour of panic. You 225 00:16:03.100 --> 00:16:05.400 know, it's a roller coaster 226 00:16:05.400 --> 00:16:11.700 sometimes. There's many a day when out on patrol the most you do is 227 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:14.400 help somebody change a flat tire, which is great. 228 00:16:14.400 --> 00:16:19.000 But then there's those times when something bad has happened, a bad 229 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:20.100 crash or something like that. 230 00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:25.400 What territory do you cover? The district that I'm in covers five 231 00:16:25.400 --> 00:16:27.200 counties in the Metro East of St. 232 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:27.400 Louis. 233 00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:28.900 So it's a huge area. 234 00:16:28.900 --> 00:16:35.800 The district headquarters also houses the regional area for 235 00:16:35.800 --> 00:16:37.000 investigations. 236 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:42.700 So there's a whole other staff the local Department you would call them 237 00:16:42.700 --> 00:16:43.900 detectives, State Police call them 238 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:51.000 Investigators. There's also one of the regional crime scene Labs is is 239 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.000 in our area. 240 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.700 So that's another whole set of people crime scene investigators. And 241 00:16:55.700 --> 00:17:02.100 Metro East is a populist area. Populist and a very very diverse area in 242 00:17:02.100 --> 00:17:06.090 terms of you might be in kind of an inner-city situation or you might 243 00:17:06.090 --> 00:17:11.200 be out way out in the country somewhere. And there's many a time 244 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:16.800 a Trooper out and in one of the outlying areas his or her closest 245 00:17:16.800 --> 00:17:18.700 backup might be 20 minutes away. 246 00:17:18.700 --> 00:17:24.590 So it's a very lonely job and when you respond to a call or make a 247 00:17:24.590 --> 00:17:28.700 traffic stop or something you really got to be thinking, you know, I'm 248 00:17:28.700 --> 00:17:30.200 out here by myself right now. 249 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:36.300 So there's a lot of stress a lot of tension that goes with that. You gave us the light story 250 00:17:36.300 --> 00:17:37.700 give us a heavier story. Well one of the most recent ones and one of the heaviest ones is 251 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:50.300 for the Illinois State Police 2019 was a very bad year. We had for 252 00:17:50.300 --> 00:17:51.500 line-of-duty deaths. 253 00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:55.400 The last one was in the Metro East area. 254 00:17:55.400 --> 00:18:03.300 So I got a call at 5 o'clock in the morning from our chaplain coordinator. 255 00:18:03.300 --> 00:18:07.200 I made the mistake of saying good morning master sergeant. 256 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.200 And he said Chaplin Bill it's not a good morning. 257 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:15.400 So we ended up at St. 258 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:20.900 Louis area trauma center and I spent the first part of the day. 259 00:18:20.900 --> 00:18:24.900 In fact, I got there before they got his wife there are from her home. 260 00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:27.600 So I met her in the emergency room. 261 00:18:27.600 --> 00:18:32.100 They already moved the trooper to ICU room. 262 00:18:32.100 --> 00:18:37.200 So I spent the first part of the day with her first couple of hours 263 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:43.300 with her until her pastor arrived and actually her father's pastor, 264 00:18:43.300 --> 00:18:44.000 who was visiting 265 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:49.600 from Texas. Talk about a God thing. And and then I spent the next 12 266 00:18:49.600 --> 00:18:56.800 hours with all the other Troopers who came whenever Troopers injured 267 00:18:56.800 --> 00:18:59.700 people just come from everywhere. 268 00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:02.900 I mean, there's over a hundred people in the hospital hallways. In a 269 00:19:02.900 --> 00:19:08.200 case like that is is it that in part of Ministry of presence also a 270 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:19.500 Ministry of words of comfort. Right. Definitely with the family that's real hardcore pastoral Ministry. 271 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:20.700 We prayed together. 272 00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:22.700 We shared scripture. 273 00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:24.200 We we cried together. 274 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:31.000 I mean that that part as that shifted then the rest of the time is 275 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:36.100 mostly a Ministry of presence and then also being that person in the 276 00:19:36.100 --> 00:19:39.100 chaplains often that person who has to think of some of the other 277 00:19:39.100 --> 00:19:43.900 peripheral things. Like I arranged with the hospital 278 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.800 staff to open up the chapel which was a very big space. 279 00:19:47.800 --> 00:19:53.000 So we had a place to congregate. I work with some auxiliary groups that 280 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.700 come in to help when an officer has been injured and got food and 281 00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:59.500 water for a hundred people for the whole day. 282 00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:04.500 So you start doing some of those peripheral things, you know, you 283 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:08.700 have to take care of those basic things also and it's often the 284 00:20:08.700 --> 00:20:13.600 chaplain who first of all thinks to that has to be done and then 285 00:20:13.600 --> 00:20:15.600 starts doing the behind-the-scenes thing. 286 00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:19.400 You can't do a whole lot of ministry to somebody who's stressed out, 287 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:24.500 hungry, thirsty, tired and I'll show you the address some of those 288 00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:29.300 issues first. You know, that that that reminds me in my job as 289 00:20:29.300 --> 00:20:30.000 president. 290 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:36.200 People would come with some idea and I say, okay, but let's consider 291 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:37.700 all these other things because 292 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:41.900 I knew the broad perspective. 293 00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:46.700 But I never thought about a police chaplain does the same thing 294 00:20:46.700 --> 00:20:49.800 that nobody else is going to come up with so it's not just a matter of 295 00:20:49.800 --> 00:20:54.000 saying a comforting word and being there but hey to deliver this 296 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:54.600 comfort. 297 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:09.400 There's there's logistics that's interesting. Once everybody feed and watered then we have a prayer or we share some scripture and things like that. 298 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:13.800 And those little things are part of the ministry because you need some 299 00:21:13.800 --> 00:21:16.400 normalcy when when normal is taken away. 300 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:23.600 And then in the case of this situation the family made a decision to 301 00:21:23.600 --> 00:21:26.200 donate the Troopers organs. 302 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:32.900 So then I became a liaison between the family the state police command 303 00:21:32.900 --> 00:21:38.700 and the transport organ transport people because they weren't 304 00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:42.700 transport him to another location for organ donation. 305 00:21:42.700 --> 00:21:46.500 And of course that doesn't happen until he's officially pronounced 306 00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:47.100 deceased. 307 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:53.400 So I had to kind of coach the state police command and I said now, you 308 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:58.400 know when he leaves here he ought to have the flag over and things like that 309 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:01.100 and they didn't quite understand. 310 00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:01.800 Well 311 00:22:01.800 --> 00:22:03.500 yeah, but he's still alive. 312 00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:05.500 I should no his organs are being kept alive 313 00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:06.900 he's not alive anymore. 314 00:22:06.900 --> 00:22:10.500 And so we had to coordinate some of that some of the 315 00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:16.800 ceremonial things which are important and are healing things to. It is 316 00:22:16.800 --> 00:22:23.400 a sinful world isn't? Yeah. Besides ministering to officers . Do you minister to 317 00:22:24.600 --> 00:22:30.000 for examples of people who are arrested? People who are arrested not 318 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:30.900 very much. 319 00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:37.300 And the reason for that is a police chaplain needs to have the trust 320 00:22:37.300 --> 00:22:38.400 of the officers. 321 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:43.600 And if you do ministry to those who have been arrested that diminishes 322 00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:45.000 your trust with the officers. 323 00:22:45.900 --> 00:22:48.000 Sounds kind of crazy. But that makes sense 324 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:55.600 it makes sense. So I have at times connected an arrested person with some other chaplain. 325 00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:56.600 In Southern Illinois 326 00:22:56.600 --> 00:23:04.500 we have the the largest contingent of prison and jail chaplains in 327 00:23:06.100 --> 00:23:09.300 the whole Synod and and really are an example for it. 328 00:23:09.300 --> 00:23:10.700 So I have ready resources. 329 00:23:10.700 --> 00:23:14.400 I have people I can call and say hey this guy could really use a 330 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:14.600 visit. 331 00:23:14.600 --> 00:23:15.500 He just got arrested. 332 00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:21.800 I do remember it in in my Ministry that that I frequently was invited 333 00:23:21.800 --> 00:23:24.900 to be a guest speaker at a prison and end that always came through the 334 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:25.800 local chaplain. 335 00:23:25.800 --> 00:23:30.200 I mean the prison chaplain. You probably know some of the same ones 336 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.300 that did I was privileged to deal with. 337 00:23:34.600 --> 00:23:38.300 One of the things that strikes me as you're telling this awesome 338 00:23:38.300 --> 00:23:39.200 information. 339 00:23:40.600 --> 00:23:44.900 Is it I don't know that we regularly pray in our churches for 340 00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:47.400 chaplains, police chaplains. 341 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:50.600 Probably. Institutional chaplains. Probably not. 342 00:23:52.800 --> 00:23:54.700 Where I am wherever I am. 343 00:23:54.700 --> 00:24:00.900 I make sure that every week we pray for the members of our Armed 344 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:06.200 Forces, law enforcement, fire and Emergency Medical Service people and 345 00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:12.600 healthcare workers and you know, most people forget until they called 346 00:24:12.600 --> 00:24:14.900 911 and need some help. 347 00:24:14.900 --> 00:24:19.100 They forget that those people are out there every day and are 348 00:24:19.100 --> 00:24:24.400 providing help and support to people and people who are having the 349 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:25.200 worst day of their lives. 350 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:31.400 Today's intersection of Word and Work is giving us a lot to think 351 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:37.700 about and and one thing is pastors or lay people ask your pastor to 352 00:24:37.700 --> 00:24:42.400 include police and institutional chaplains in the Sunday prayers. We're going 353 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:46.700 to take a quick break, but when we return critical incident stress 354 00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:49.300 management. Stay with us. 355 00:24:51.580 --> 00:24:53.180 Concordia Seminary St. 356 00:24:53.180 --> 00:24:57.980 Louis provides continuing education resources for pastors and lay 357 00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:03.080 people to discover all the Concordia Seminary has for you visit us on 358 00:25:03.080 --> 00:25:05.580 the web at CSL. 359 00:25:05.580 --> 00:25:06.380 EDU. 360 00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:12.880 Welcome back to Word and Work an Intersection. 361 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:15.680 I'm your host Dale Meyer. Today 362 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:17.680 my guest is Reverend William Engfehr. 363 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:22.880 Reverend Engfehr is currently a vacancy pastor but he has 27 years 364 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:27.880 experience as a Chaplain for the Illinois State Police. Being a 365 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:29.580 chaplain in today's world 366 00:25:29.580 --> 00:25:37.980 that's our Word and Work Intersection today. You serve on and I've I've 367 00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:43.680 got to do my notes the critical incident stress management team. 368 00:25:44.780 --> 00:25:46.080 Could you explain that to us? 369 00:25:46.080 --> 00:25:46.580 Right. 370 00:25:46.580 --> 00:25:48.780 Will call it CISM from here 371 00:25:48.780 --> 00:25:54.080 on make it easier. Critical Incident Stress Management is a 372 00:25:54.080 --> 00:26:02.180 relatively new thing. In the 1980s a couple of people at a couple of 373 00:26:02.180 --> 00:26:07.580 doctors Jeffrey Mitchell and George Everly started analyzing why First 374 00:26:07.580 --> 00:26:13.080 Responders quit. Why they left their professions police and fire and 375 00:26:13.080 --> 00:26:17.580 EMS workers and they found that a lot of times it had to do with 376 00:26:17.580 --> 00:26:18.980 stress. From there 377 00:26:18.980 --> 00:26:22.580 they start developing some techniques to deal with stress, especially 378 00:26:22.580 --> 00:26:27.580 the stress from critical incidents. Critical incident is defined as 379 00:26:27.580 --> 00:26:31.580 anything that challenges a person's normal coping skills. 380 00:26:32.380 --> 00:26:37.380 Now those in first responder professions have very high-level coping 381 00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:39.580 skills cuz they see and deal with a lot of stuff. 382 00:26:39.580 --> 00:26:44.480 But every once in awhile something goes over the top. And if they can 383 00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:49.480 get help dealing with the stress reactions, they'll recover they'll 384 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:53.380 stay healthy though be able to continue doing their jobs. 385 00:26:53.380 --> 00:27:00.280 So out of this came a protocol called Critical Incident Stress Management and I've 386 00:27:00.280 --> 00:27:06.180 taken the training and I joined actually I'm on three teams right now. 387 00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:08.380 There's one in Greater St. 388 00:27:08.380 --> 00:27:10.880 Louis area with covers the eastern half of Missouri. 389 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:15.080 There's one in Southern Illinois, and I'm helping a young team get 390 00:27:15.080 --> 00:27:16.280 started in Central Illinois. 391 00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:20.080 So it's all volunteer work. 392 00:27:20.080 --> 00:27:24.580 It's all done by trained people mental health professionals, chaplains 393 00:27:24.580 --> 00:27:32.380 and peers police, fire, EMS, emergency room nurses, dispatchers who have 394 00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:35.080 been trained in this thing called critical incident stress management. 395 00:27:35.080 --> 00:27:40.680 Is this a version of and probably a little more high-powered version 396 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:45.580 of something that was told that our our congregational pastors who 397 00:27:45.580 --> 00:27:46.380 experience 398 00:27:47.780 --> 00:27:52.880 flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes, fire, earthquakes 399 00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:56.880 you name it. That they go through the same thing that after after they 400 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.180 give their best in an impossible situation 401 00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:02.180 they often burn out. 402 00:28:02.180 --> 00:28:02.880 Yes. 403 00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.380 It is exactly the same thing. 404 00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:15.480 And in fact, we have formed, the Synod has formed a team of Disaster 405 00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:17.480 Response chaplains. 406 00:28:18.380 --> 00:28:23.880 To minister to pastors and other Church workers lay leaders in 407 00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:29.180 congregations following a disaster to help mitigate some of the stress 408 00:28:29.180 --> 00:28:30.980 reactions that they might be having. 409 00:28:30.980 --> 00:28:38.280 So we've taken this CISM stuff and have incorporated it also into the 410 00:28:38.280 --> 00:28:45.280 church and even you know, the things I've learned they apply so 411 00:28:45.280 --> 00:28:47.180 often to Parish Ministry. 412 00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:52.780 I mean when Pastor gets phone call at someone's been killed in an 413 00:28:52.780 --> 00:28:55.580 accident and has to go to minister to that family. 414 00:28:55.580 --> 00:29:00.180 How do you minister to a family in that stressful situation? A lot of the 415 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:06.480 skills that I've learned apply there. And the neat thing is in the 416 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:11.080 church you could use those skills and add the word of God to it. 417 00:29:11.080 --> 00:29:15.880 And now you're really doing something special. That must be different 418 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:17.980 because in the ministry 419 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:23.080 you if you share a doctrinal outlook of faith outlook with a 420 00:29:23.080 --> 00:29:28.180 parishioner, but you don't always in chaplaincy and in fact probably don't. 421 00:29:28.180 --> 00:29:28.480 And 422 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.680 so you have to move in in a little bit different way. 423 00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:37.180 You have to do more Ministry of presence as we call it. 424 00:29:37.180 --> 00:29:43.380 You just have to be there but the doors do open. When all this pandemic 425 00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:44.380 started. 426 00:29:44.380 --> 00:29:48.180 I got a phone call from an aide to the director of the Illinois State 427 00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:53.780 Police who said Chaplin the director would like to have you come to a 428 00:29:53.780 --> 00:29:53.980 meeting. 429 00:29:53.980 --> 00:29:56.780 Can you be here in an hour? 430 00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:00.780 And he said it's at the crime lab, but we've got a secure room. 431 00:30:00.780 --> 00:30:03.480 It's only going to be four of us in the room 432 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:10.080 but we need you there. When the director calls, you know, so I hopped 433 00:30:10.080 --> 00:30:12.180 in my car and headed to the crime lab. 434 00:30:12.180 --> 00:30:15.780 Got there walked in the room and the director said oh Chaplin. 435 00:30:15.780 --> 00:30:16.780 thanks for comin 436 00:30:16.780 --> 00:30:23.680 I'm about to do a phone conference with a thousand police Chiefs and 437 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.280 sheriffs in the state of Illinois to brief them on some of the stuff 438 00:30:27.280 --> 00:30:31.580 that we're going to have to deal with in this pandemic and I want you 439 00:30:31.580 --> 00:30:32.880 to start with a prayer. 440 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:40.880 Talk about Ministry doors opening I mean you no no nobody could have 441 00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:46.880 dreamed that I would be able to lead in prayer to 1000 police Chiefs 442 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.080 and sheriffs in the entire state of Illinois. Well that is also an encouraging story 443 00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:56.780 for those of us who don't realize that faith is a factor in 444 00:30:56.780 --> 00:30:58.580 governmental service. 445 00:30:58.580 --> 00:30:59.980 It absolutely is. 446 00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:04.380 We we have been blessed over the years in the Illinois State Police to 447 00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:05.280 have some great directors. 448 00:31:05.280 --> 00:31:10.280 The one we have now is in an extremely devout Christian and he lives 449 00:31:10.280 --> 00:31:15.880 his faith and any leans on the chaplains often to provide help and 450 00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:19.880 support not only to him but to everybody around him. 451 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:32.580 So in CISM, Critical Incident Stress Management. We got side tracked there a little bit. No, no this is fascinating I'm really learning a lot and 452 00:31:32.580 --> 00:31:34.180 again this is worth 453 00:31:35.080 --> 00:31:39.980 congregational prayers and personal prayers too. But in CISM 454 00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:42.880 what departments do you serve? 455 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:43.580 You mean 456 00:31:43.580 --> 00:31:48.080 you're obviously police. Our teams 457 00:31:48.080 --> 00:31:50.380 serve any First Responders. 458 00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:58.980 So police, Fire, EMS, emergency room staff, dispatchers or 459 00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:01.380 telecommunicators cuz they're the front line. 460 00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:04.480 They're the ones that answer the 911 call that starts everything. 461 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.380 So that's who we serve in any department. 462 00:32:08.380 --> 00:32:10.480 It's all volunteer. 463 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:11.880 It's all free. 464 00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:18.380 We do fundraising the to get funds for training and things like that. 465 00:32:18.380 --> 00:32:22.580 I mean it's but it's no charge any of the people we serve. And we do 466 00:32:22.580 --> 00:32:26.580 have several different things the things we like to do the most is 467 00:32:26.580 --> 00:32:31.280 education in Stress Management. Teach people about stress what it does 468 00:32:31.280 --> 00:32:34.880 to you and and how to mitigate the reactions to stress. 469 00:32:35.980 --> 00:32:40.780 But most often we don't get called until after something bad has 470 00:32:40.780 --> 00:32:40.980 happened. 471 00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:46.380 So one of the things to do is is called diffusing which is meeting 472 00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:50.980 with the people who are immediately involved as soon afterwards as 473 00:32:50.980 --> 00:32:51.580 possible. 474 00:32:51.580 --> 00:32:55.780 Sometimes at the end of the shift and just talk a little bit about 475 00:32:55.780 --> 00:32:59.980 what's going to happen the next several days where some of the things 476 00:32:59.980 --> 00:33:03.480 are going to experience that are stress reactions. Because people don't 477 00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:07.980 realize sometimes that they are stress reactions and then what are some 478 00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:12.980 helpful things to do some unhealthy things to avoid doing things like 479 00:33:12.980 --> 00:33:17.380 that. You mentioned in the first segment that there was a city police 480 00:33:17.380 --> 00:33:19.680 chief nah we don't need that just tighten your belt. 481 00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:26.880 Do you encounter any of that now? Very rarely now, there's a much greater 482 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:35.680 understanding among Chiefs and and command people that stress is 483 00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:41.280 very very serious. For example police officers, 484 00:33:41.280 --> 00:33:45.380 the divorce rate among police officers is way higher than the national 485 00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:49.880 average, suicide not talked about very often. 486 00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:53.580 It's a very significant problem. And this is normal that when you have 487 00:33:53.580 --> 00:34:02.280 a critical incident? Right, right. This is the everyday stress. And so the thing that we do most often though is a 488 00:34:02.280 --> 00:34:05.880 couple of days after critical incident we do a debriefing and that's a 489 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.980 group process where everybody involved gets to talk about what 490 00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:09.980 happened. 491 00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:16.180 We explore some of their reactions feelings emotions physical signs 492 00:34:16.180 --> 00:34:16.880 and symptoms. 493 00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:19.880 And then we spent a lot of time on education. 494 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:23.780 These are the good things you need to do to deal with with stress. 495 00:34:23.780 --> 00:34:26.880 Do they get time off after the incident? 496 00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:33.080 Some departments are very good about that recently did a debriefing 497 00:34:33.080 --> 00:34:35.680 following the line of duty 498 00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:38.980 death of a police officer in a large Metropolitan Police Department 499 00:34:38.980 --> 00:34:44.880 and several of the officers there had been off for a couple of days 500 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.280 one of them when he came in. 501 00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:48.680 He said this first time I've sat down since this happened. 502 00:34:49.780 --> 00:34:54.480 So one of the things we did afterwards was pulled the sergeant aside and 503 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.580 said can you do something about that? 504 00:34:56.580 --> 00:35:01.180 And before you left the room he texted somebody and said get this guy 505 00:35:01.180 --> 00:35:01.780 a day off. 506 00:35:01.780 --> 00:35:03.580 So sometimes it works. 507 00:35:03.580 --> 00:35:07.580 Sometimes it doesn't. Do you notice differences in the Department's I 508 00:35:07.580 --> 00:35:10.780 mean, we know that what the fire department doesn't with the police 509 00:35:10.780 --> 00:35:12.580 department does but in your ministry 510 00:35:12.580 --> 00:35:16.680 and in this team approach that are critical incidents you noticed 511 00:35:16.680 --> 00:35:25.880 differences. Oh yeah. They're lots of differences. Differences from one police department to another and a some some very much 512 00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:31.180 reach out for help immediately to their own chaplain or to the 513 00:35:31.180 --> 00:35:35.980 critical incident team and police and fire deal with things very 514 00:35:35.980 --> 00:35:38.380 differently too. So many times 515 00:35:39.080 --> 00:35:45.080 when they're done at the scene of something the police officer has to 516 00:35:45.080 --> 00:35:49.080 get back in their car and finish the rest of the shift the firefighters 517 00:35:49.080 --> 00:35:52.980 go back to the firehouse and they sit around the kitchen table and 518 00:35:52.980 --> 00:35:55.980 they have a cup of coffee and they kind of start debriefing 519 00:35:55.980 --> 00:35:56.880 themselves. 520 00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:58.880 So it's a very different approaches. 521 00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:04.880 They all need some level of support but firefighters have a little 522 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:09.680 easier ways of it being built in cuz they they live together they sleep 523 00:36:09.680 --> 00:36:10.680 together they eat together. 524 00:36:10.680 --> 00:36:15.880 So they get to talk to each other. Tell us about EMS. 525 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:25.080 I mean, let's talk about stress. Well yeah, EMS, emergency medical people are 526 00:36:25.080 --> 00:36:28.480 constantly dealing with problems. 527 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:32.380 They don't get any of the good side that you know, police and 528 00:36:32.380 --> 00:36:36.180 firefighter sometimes good opportunities to do good things, but the 529 00:36:36.180 --> 00:36:38.880 EMS people are are under a lot of stress. 530 00:36:39.080 --> 00:36:44.580 And they are just now just in the last couple years realizing that 531 00:36:44.580 --> 00:36:46.580 they need help with the EMS. 532 00:36:46.580 --> 00:36:50.780 I've got a couple of ambulance services in my area that have me on 533 00:36:50.780 --> 00:36:51.680 speed dial now. 534 00:36:51.680 --> 00:36:57.980 And they'll call me at 2 o'clock in the morning and say we just had a crew dealt with 535 00:36:57.980 --> 00:37:01.880 thus and so could you come and sit with him for a while things like 536 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:02.080 that. 537 00:37:03.580 --> 00:37:11.480 But in EMS Personnel, I mean they never have a good call, you know, 538 00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:16.780 if it's always something whether it's heart attack or or or even worse 539 00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:21.380 more disastrous catastrophic heart attack is bad. 540 00:37:21.380 --> 00:37:27.580 And that's that's what they do for a full shift, correct? Yeah and sometimes they 541 00:37:27.580 --> 00:37:31.680 never get a break and they seem always to be 542 00:37:31.680 --> 00:37:32.080 short-staffed. 543 00:37:32.080 --> 00:37:36.380 I mean, they're always running from one call to another I just dealt 544 00:37:36.380 --> 00:37:43.880 with a crew after a call where a woman died. And one of the things that 545 00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:47.680 bothered them was that their response time was 25 minutes away because 546 00:37:47.680 --> 00:37:51.280 they were way at the other end of the county when the call came. And 547 00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:54.480 they were playing through the heads could could we have done 548 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:58.480 better if we had gotten there sooner which turned out not to be the 549 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.580 case, but you know you do that second-guessing. Do they have much 550 00:38:01.580 --> 00:38:02.180 downtime? You mentioned the Fire 551 00:38:03.580 --> 00:38:07.380 Department can go back to the barn or whatever you 552 00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:07.580 call it now 553 00:38:07.580 --> 00:38:13.680 the station. Do EMS get down time? They do get some and and many 554 00:38:13.680 --> 00:38:16.980 ambulance crews work out of a base. 555 00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:20.880 Some of the EMS people are connected with fire department. 556 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:22.580 So they work out of the firehouse. 557 00:38:22.580 --> 00:38:24.080 So they do get some down time. 558 00:38:24.080 --> 00:38:29.680 They do get some time to interact with each other 559 00:38:29.680 --> 00:38:34.480 but in our little Community the fire department the EMS people 560 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:35.480 run 561 00:38:36.180 --> 00:38:39.480 I think the latest I heard was 1.500 calls a year. 562 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:45.680 I mean that's a lot in a community of 25.000. 563 00:38:45.680 --> 00:38:48.280 So so they don't get a lot of downtime. 564 00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:54.780 So you go with them when it's a critical incident. 565 00:38:54.780 --> 00:38:56.480 Yes. And you see 566 00:38:57.680 --> 00:39:05.880 the worst situations in life tell us about that and tell us about the 567 00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.680 people who are the victims of these awful times. 568 00:39:09.680 --> 00:39:13.080 I tell you a story about one many years ago. 569 00:39:13.080 --> 00:39:18.480 I got called by the local police departments to respond to a traffic 570 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.780 crash. When I got there 571 00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:24.880 I found out that an eighteen-year-old 572 00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:31.280 they had been involved in a rear-end accident and this young woman died 573 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:35.180 and police asked me to do the death notification. 574 00:39:36.380 --> 00:39:40.280 Which is something Chaplains often get asked to participate in or 575 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:40.980 actually do. 576 00:39:41.980 --> 00:39:43.780 We had we had a home address. 577 00:39:43.780 --> 00:39:44.880 Nobody was at home. 578 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:50.080 The only other thing I had was an 800 phone number, so I didn't know 579 00:39:50.080 --> 00:39:51.180 where that rang. 580 00:39:51.180 --> 00:39:55.680 So I called the number hoping it would be some big company and I could 581 00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:59.080 find out where it was and I could go there. Didn't turn out that the 582 00:39:59.080 --> 00:40:02.780 the mother of this young woman answered the phone. 583 00:40:03.980 --> 00:40:08.780 So I had to tell her over the phone what had happened and there's a 584 00:40:08.780 --> 00:40:15.280 lot more to the story on that but met with her and her husband later 585 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:21.480 spent the day with them. Got them connected to their support people and 586 00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:27.280 as often happens with the chaplain at the end of the day, that was the 587 00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:28.080 last I saw of them. 588 00:40:28.080 --> 00:40:39.880 So as a pastor my my my. I got to finish the story for you. 8 years later our youth group director came and said pastor we had one of the guys 589 00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:43.980 brought a young lady to youth group last night and I think you know 590 00:40:43.980 --> 00:40:48.880 her and started describing it and it was the young sister of this girl 591 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:53.480 have been killed eight years later. Wow. The short story is she 592 00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:54.980 started coming to our church. 593 00:40:56.180 --> 00:40:57.680 We baptized her. 594 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:03.380 And we did when we did that the whole youth group threw a party that 595 00:41:03.380 --> 00:41:09.480 Sunday so at the little reception afterwards I met her parents first 596 00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:10.480 time, I'd seen him in eight years. 597 00:41:11.680 --> 00:41:15.680 And I didn't know what to say to him and I felt for eight years. 598 00:41:15.680 --> 00:41:18.680 I felt horrible about the way I had to tell them about their 599 00:41:18.680 --> 00:41:19.880 daughter's death on the phone. 600 00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:25.180 Not the way you do death notification, and I apologized. And the woman 601 00:41:25.180 --> 00:41:26.180 looked at me and she said, 602 00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:28.880 there's quite a few things 603 00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:30.180 I remember from that day. 604 00:41:30.180 --> 00:41:31.180 Probably a lot of things. 605 00:41:31.180 --> 00:41:34.380 I don't remember but one thing that stands out is your kindness and 606 00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:34.680 compassion. 607 00:41:36.580 --> 00:41:37.080 Wow. 608 00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:42.680 They went through Adult class and became members of the church too, that 609 00:41:42.680 --> 00:41:43.680 doesn't happen very often. 610 00:41:45.080 --> 00:41:49.480 What I was going to ask before you gave the the great end of the 611 00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:50.080 story. 612 00:41:50.080 --> 00:41:53.080 Was that as as a pastor 613 00:41:54.080 --> 00:41:59.280 first of all, you don't you want to do it in person and I'm sure you 614 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:04.780 make more death notifications and then an average pastor does. I have, yes. Yeah I mean 615 00:42:04.780 --> 00:42:10.880 I've done some but it's not a regular routine in in most Parish 616 00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:16.380 pastors life. But you call up and then might mind and so you got to do 617 00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:16.680 it. 618 00:42:16.680 --> 00:42:18.680 You can't say it, you know, I need to come and talk to you 619 00:42:18.680 --> 00:42:22.180 I mean traumatic in itself. 620 00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:27.980 But you would worry after you told them what's going to happen until 621 00:42:27.980 --> 00:42:28.780 you get there. 622 00:42:28.780 --> 00:42:34.180 I mean you pray and I'll let me get there and in 623 00:42:35.180 --> 00:42:37.480 physically be present with them. 624 00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:42.680 We usually do not make a phone call first will usually want to just go 625 00:42:42.680 --> 00:42:43.080 there. 626 00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:52.180 So you're there and you know, one of those the challenges is you want 627 00:42:52.180 --> 00:42:55.180 to stay there and be as helpful and supportive as you can but you know 628 00:42:55.180 --> 00:42:58.480 that ultimately you have to connect them with their own support 629 00:42:58.480 --> 00:42:58.580 system. 630 00:42:58.580 --> 00:43:02.580 So what and I always asked you have a church home. 631 00:43:02.580 --> 00:43:05.280 Can I call the pastor? And many times, 632 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:10.180 yes. And I make that call so that I am able to even brief the pastor 633 00:43:10.180 --> 00:43:13.280 and what has happened and things like that. 634 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:16.480 But yeah you want to be there. 635 00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:18.380 I made one death notification. 636 00:43:18.380 --> 00:43:25.580 I had a deputy coroner and the state trooper and District Commander 637 00:43:25.580 --> 00:43:26.680 State Police with me. 638 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:28.480 And we knock on this door. 639 00:43:29.680 --> 00:43:33.480 And the woman opens the door and she just starts screaming. 640 00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:36.780 I mean imagine these four on your front porch. 641 00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:40.780 I didn't know that the other three were going to step down off the 642 00:43:40.780 --> 00:43:44.380 porch and I wouldn't be the one through the door, but I was glad I was. 643 00:43:44.380 --> 00:43:51.580 It reminds me of the scene in Saving Private Ryan the woman in Iowa. 644 00:43:51.580 --> 00:43:52.880 The older 645 00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:53.180 Mrs. 646 00:43:53.180 --> 00:43:58.480 Ryan is doing her dishes and a police car comes up a military car and 647 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:02.580 the uniforms get out and she knew immediately what it was. I've 648 00:44:02.580 --> 00:44:07.380 had that reaction several times. People just know that and there's always 649 00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:11.580 something else that they knew their daughter was late or whatever 650 00:44:11.580 --> 00:44:12.480 getting home. 651 00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:19.880 So we talked about for example that couple that lost her young 652 00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:25.980 daughter and thank heaven the seeds that you planted came to fruition 653 00:44:25.980 --> 00:44:27.680 years, years later. 654 00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:30.480 Talk about a 655 00:44:31.780 --> 00:44:35.380 line officer being killed... 656 00:44:35.380 --> 00:44:36.880 What about you? 657 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:43.580 I mean, I would think that this is stressful for you as a person. 658 00:44:43.580 --> 00:44:49.480 You have your faith you have family, but wow. 659 00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:50.680 Where do you go? 660 00:44:50.680 --> 00:44:55.180 Well, that's one of the advantages of being part of a critical 661 00:44:55.180 --> 00:44:57.980 incident team is that we take care of each other. 662 00:44:57.980 --> 00:45:05.280 So after we've gone through a critical incident other team members 663 00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:07.480 reach out. 664 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:13.880 We do kind of our own debriefing of things. Also and I don't chaplain 665 00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:18.280 alone, Illinois State Police have a lot of chaplains, about 25. 666 00:45:19.180 --> 00:45:24.680 And so they reach out. When I was at the hospital all day with 667 00:45:24.680 --> 00:45:26.080 when this Trooper was shot. 668 00:45:26.080 --> 00:45:34.480 I got text messages and phone calls from about 10 chaplains or 669 00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:38.380 critical incident team members saying hey Bill, do you need anything? And I 670 00:45:38.380 --> 00:45:41.880 actually did that brought several of them to assist at the hospital, 671 00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:42.980 we had so many people there. 672 00:45:42.980 --> 00:45:49.980 So we take care of each other and then we tried to do what preachers 673 00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:53.580 wish that people would always do and that is practice what you preach. 674 00:45:53.580 --> 00:46:00.180 So, you know, if we're trained in Stress Management we ought to use 675 00:46:00.180 --> 00:46:00.380 it. 676 00:46:00.380 --> 00:46:07.080 Sometimes it takes a friendly nudge sometimes from the person that 677 00:46:07.080 --> 00:46:12.980 I've been married to for 47 years. One of the things getting offline 678 00:46:12.980 --> 00:46:16.980 now, is it is it is it at the change in seminary life and change in 679 00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:18.480 curriculum and change in generations. 680 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:23.980 Our students I think are are more open to being Brothers to one 681 00:46:23.980 --> 00:46:28.080 another and encouraging one another especially in the in the down 682 00:46:28.080 --> 00:46:31.880 times. You mentioned before that the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, 683 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:38.080 our denomination, has has a critical stress critical incident 684 00:46:38.080 --> 00:46:45.580 department or what is the proper title is. So we have a disaster response department and several years 685 00:46:45.580 --> 00:46:45.880 ago 686 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:51.680 I was asked to to expand our ministry to Chaplin's what we call 687 00:46:51.680 --> 00:46:57.180 Emergency Services chaplains police, Fire, EMS, chaplains and out of 688 00:46:57.180 --> 00:46:57.180 that. 689 00:46:57.180 --> 00:47:03.680 We developed a program of Disaster Response chaplains so that there 690 00:47:03.680 --> 00:47:06.280 were chaplains who could go. For example years ago 691 00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:10.980 there was a twin tornado that went through the town of Pilger. 692 00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:12.680 Nebraska. I've been the Pilger. 693 00:47:12.680 --> 00:47:17.280 Yeah wiped out the town including the church and the pastor's house 694 00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:18.680 next door and 695 00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:24.980 I went there as a Disaster Response chaplain to minister primarily to 696 00:47:24.980 --> 00:47:31.480 the pastor and his wife. Again to share some Stress Management things 697 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:35.680 with them, but to to minister to them Pastor to Pastor. Church sits on the 698 00:47:35.680 --> 00:47:38.980 westside of the little town of Pilger and they have built a new 699 00:47:38.980 --> 00:47:39.880 Sanctuary now. 700 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:47.880 Yes. That was dual parish so actually when I was there I preached that Sunday for the 701 00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:51.680 pastor they were all meeting at the other parish and you know, he told 702 00:47:51.680 --> 00:47:56.480 me afterwards you said you opened up 8 hours this week that I didn't 703 00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:01.380 have to prepare for church. And I got to do more in-person Ministry and 704 00:48:01.380 --> 00:48:08.180 things like that so. We often neglect 705 00:48:09.580 --> 00:48:12.880 our pastors who are on the front line. 706 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:17.380 I mean you think about what's going on with the Hurricanes that have 707 00:48:17.380 --> 00:48:21.980 hit in the Gulf States and we've got pastors who are out of their 708 00:48:21.980 --> 00:48:23.480 homes are out of their churches. 709 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:27.880 And what are they doing day in and day out there still doing Pastoral 710 00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:28.280 Care Ministry. 711 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:30.780 So who takes care of them? 712 00:48:32.180 --> 00:48:37.980 Where can a person learn about you mentioned chaplaincy and there 713 00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:41.580 are various kinds of chaplaincies, critical incident stress management? 714 00:48:41.580 --> 00:48:47.280 The Disaster Response of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. Where 715 00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:52.280 can a person go to learn more about these various ways to the bring 716 00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:58.080 comfort to people? One of the things is on our Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod 717 00:48:58.080 --> 00:49:02.680 website under specialized pastoral Ministry, which is where chaplaincy 718 00:49:02.680 --> 00:49:07.580 of all kinds falls with prisons, hospitals, whatever including 719 00:49:07.580 --> 00:49:08.680 Emergency Services. 720 00:49:08.680 --> 00:49:10.880 There are a number of resources there. 721 00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:18.880 We actually have a program in the Synod to endorse Emergency Services 722 00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:19.380 chaplains. 723 00:49:19.380 --> 00:49:22.980 There aren't too many of us that have gone through that but it's a 724 00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:27.880 pretty rigorous endorsement process with a lot of training. But there's 725 00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.980 also resources there of chaplain organizations 726 00:49:32.080 --> 00:49:34.480 across the country that do training things like that. 727 00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:36.480 A critical incident stress management 728 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.780 there is an international critical incident stress management 729 00:49:39.780 --> 00:49:43.680 foundation that sponsors training and that can be done 730 00:49:43.680 --> 00:49:46.880 regionally. Our St. 731 00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:51.380 Louis team offers training a couple times a year. You can Google that 732 00:49:51.380 --> 00:49:58.880 I assume. Yep, sure can. And you know that that's really where you get it and 733 00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:03.480 then if you get connected with a local Department police, Fire, EMS, 734 00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:08.280 sometimes they have resources as far as training and things like that. 735 00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:16.180 This has been an eye-opener to me and so friend Bill, Pastor 736 00:50:16.180 --> 00:50:16.380 Engfehr. 737 00:50:16.380 --> 00:50:21.680 I want to thank you for this most interesting discussion and our 738 00:50:21.680 --> 00:50:26.380 prayers are with you and and those who serve as chaplains in in 739 00:50:26.380 --> 00:50:27.480 various settings. 740 00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:31.680 And thank you our audience for joining us. 741 00:50:31.680 --> 00:50:37.180 Wow, what an intersection of Word and Work we've heard about today. And 742 00:50:37.180 --> 00:50:40.180 I pray that it'll also be busy on your corner.