WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.700 --> 00:00:27.400 Hello and Welcome to Word and Work an Intersection. 2 00:00:27.400 --> 00:00:32.100 I'm your host Dale Mayer. On today's program will visit with Dr. 3 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:33.300 Mark Rockenbach. 4 00:00:33.300 --> 00:00:37.900 He's an associate professor of Practical Theology here at Concordia 5 00:00:37.900 --> 00:00:38.600 Seminary St. 6 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:44.200 Louis. And he frequently speaks about care for church workers and we'd 7 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:48.200 like to discuss how the coronavirus pandemic is affecting pastor 8 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:50.500 church workers and congregations. 9 00:00:50.500 --> 00:00:51.600 Welcome Mark. 10 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:55.800 We're glad to have you here have to point out that you have expertise 11 00:00:55.800 --> 00:00:56.800 in this area. 12 00:00:56.800 --> 00:01:00.000 Unlike me tell us about your degree. 13 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:05.000 So when I was in the parish, I started working on a counseling degree. 14 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.500 So I have a counseling degree. 15 00:01:07.100 --> 00:01:11.500 I've done mental counseling and have a PhD in Psychology as well. 16 00:01:11.500 --> 00:01:17.400 You're an expert for these times and these times really need the kind 17 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:18.800 of expertise that you have. 18 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:23.900 Supplemented or supporting actually, the Word of God and the comfort it 19 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.200 gives us. Several weeks ago 20 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:29.000 I saw a report in Crain's Chicago business. 21 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:34.700 It was taken from Bloomberg News and based on statistics from the US 22 00:01:34.700 --> 00:01:35.600 Census. 23 00:01:36.800 --> 00:01:42.600 Most of the major metropolitan areas have up to 60% of the population 24 00:01:42.600 --> 00:01:45.100 depressed or hopeless, 25 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:47.200 because of COVID. 26 00:01:48.800 --> 00:01:54.000 And the depression and hopelessness was especially pronounced among 27 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:54.600 young people. 28 00:01:55.900 --> 00:02:00.300 So there's a lot that we need to talk about since it's not only 29 00:02:00.300 --> 00:02:03.900 believing in God, but it's also loving our neighbors. 30 00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:05.700 So we're going to get into that. 31 00:02:05.700 --> 00:02:12.700 But but first of all about you and your family. So I have three kids 32 00:02:12.700 --> 00:02:18.800 and a wife my wife teaches kindergarten and so when all this came 33 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:22.300 about it was kind of challenging at our house because we all had to go 34 00:02:22.300 --> 00:02:24.600 online to teach her know how you teach kindergarten online. 35 00:02:24.600 --> 00:02:28.000 But my wife was doing it in the other room and I was doing my thing in 36 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:28.400 my room. 37 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:32.800 So as a family we had to kind of negotiate all those things going 38 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:35.900 on. And unfortunately my daughter graduated this year from high school. 39 00:02:35.900 --> 00:02:39.800 She missed out on all the fun stuff that normally happens like prom and 40 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:43.100 the like. So that was disappointing, you know, so it's all those 41 00:02:43.100 --> 00:02:46.700 transitional things we had to deal with two just during this pandemic 42 00:02:46.700 --> 00:02:48.000 is even as a family 43 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:51.300 Tell us about your career path. 44 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:58.200 So I went to a rural congregation out from Concordia Seminary and 45 00:02:58.200 --> 00:03:02.400 that's when I started working on Master in counseling degree. Worked for Lutheran 46 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:04.900 Family Services to get internship practicum experience. 47 00:03:04.900 --> 00:03:11.000 And then the Nebraska district office called me to serve them. 48 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:16.600 So I was the assistant to the district president for church worker 49 00:03:16.600 --> 00:03:18.700 care and Reconciliation. 50 00:03:18.700 --> 00:03:22.200 So I spent many times connecting with our church workers being 51 00:03:22.200 --> 00:03:26.000 proactive in meeting with them trying to identify issues early 52 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.500 before they got to the district president's desk and we were able to 53 00:03:29.500 --> 00:03:31.100 be successful in doing that. 54 00:03:31.100 --> 00:03:35.700 And so why was there I start working on my PhD and in Psychology, in 55 00:03:35.700 --> 00:03:39.400 particular I was interested in forgiveness. And then the Seminary called and 56 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.600 asked if I'd be interested in coming here to be a professor. 57 00:03:42.600 --> 00:03:46.600 And so that's what I'm doing now is I'm working here at Concordia 58 00:03:46.600 --> 00:03:49.500 Seminary. So in recapping that you have experience as 59 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:55.600 a pastor. For those who may not know the LCMS were divided into 35 60 00:03:55.600 --> 00:04:01.900 District, regions, and Nebraska is one of the larger districts. With quit a few to church 61 00:04:01.900 --> 00:04:02.400 workers. 62 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:02.700 Yes. 63 00:04:02.700 --> 00:04:06.700 Yeah. And and so in doing that you got to see Church workers in 64 00:04:06.700 --> 00:04:11.600 different scenes different settings Urban, Suburban, Rural and to get to 65 00:04:11.600 --> 00:04:15.900 know their problem and that no doubt was also an incentive for you 66 00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:18.000 to work on your degree. Right. 67 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:19.800 So, 68 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:29.000 let's get into the COVID thing because that has totally upset our 69 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:29.600 lives. 70 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:34.100 We have social or physical distancing is probably a better way to 71 00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:37.600 describe it. Mass stay-at-home orders. 72 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:40.800 And even right now the fall coming up on us 73 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.600 we're not we're just not sure how it's going to play out because we've 74 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:46.100 never been through this before. 75 00:04:46.100 --> 00:04:50.900 How are you personally found this crisis. 76 00:04:50.900 --> 00:04:59.000 So probably people struggle the most with isolation or social 77 00:04:59.000 --> 00:04:59.400 distancing. 78 00:04:59.400 --> 00:05:01.100 That's really not the best term to use. 79 00:05:01.100 --> 00:05:05.200 When I talk about this, we really need to be physically distancing 80 00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:09.200 from one another but we shouldn't be socially distancing from one 81 00:05:09.200 --> 00:05:11.200 another because we need each other. 82 00:05:11.200 --> 00:05:13.400 We need to be in contact with each other. 83 00:05:13.400 --> 00:05:17.800 We just need to find different ways of doing it, you know in the 84 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:21.700 current situation we're in but but people 85 00:05:21.700 --> 00:05:25.200 are struggling a lot with simply just being isolated not being 86 00:05:25.200 --> 00:05:28.800 connected with others and especially those people who don't have 87 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:32.800 anyone. So you think of people who made their single they don't have 88 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:34.200 kids or they're not married or whatever. 89 00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:38.300 You know, that's a different world that they're living in than other 90 00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:40.800 people may be calling you if you have family there calling you on the 91 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:46.700 phone or checking in with you, but just not having the same access 92 00:05:46.700 --> 00:05:50.800 that we had before. Even like when I had to stay at home with the 93 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:54.800 Seminary I miss the opportunity of being with my colleagues the staff 94 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:55.500 the students. 95 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:57.000 It was a different world. 96 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.900 I became isolated from all that. 97 00:05:58.900 --> 00:06:00.000 So that's one thing 98 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.900 I think that's a primary thing that people are struggling with. And then as 99 00:06:02.900 --> 00:06:06.400 a result of that that's where the depression anxiety of those things you 100 00:06:06.400 --> 00:06:09.900 mentioned earlier than I can come about then as a result of that 101 00:06:09.900 --> 00:06:10.700 isolation. 102 00:06:10.700 --> 00:06:17.900 Well can we replace our old way of being together physically close? 103 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:23.800 With with phone calls and Zoom meetings and so on. 104 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.400 I mean would you compare those two? Well, they're different for sure. 105 00:06:27.400 --> 00:06:31.800 So if you're doing a zoom meeting or something you you don't have the 106 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:33.900 opportunity to touch things to smell things. 107 00:06:33.900 --> 00:06:38.800 It's a different kind of a world but like for example we go on walks a 108 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:39.000 lot, 109 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:42.500 there's a park near us. And I've observed lately there people showing 110 00:06:42.500 --> 00:06:47.300 up with their lawn chairs and they sit in a circle distancing apart from 111 00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:49.600 one another and they're having conversation. 112 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:52.800 They're talking so they're still in flesh with one another, in the 113 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:55.600 flesh but they're doing so inappropriate ways. 114 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.100 And I think if do some of those things I think that will 115 00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:03.500 you can get there's a new term now called Zoom fatigue. You 116 00:07:03.500 --> 00:07:06.400 know, and some people are getting that because they sit in their 117 00:07:06.400 --> 00:07:07.900 front of their computer all day long. 118 00:07:07.900 --> 00:07:09.400 You've got to get away from that computer. 119 00:07:09.400 --> 00:07:13.800 You got to get up and do something different. Besides social isolation. 120 00:07:14.900 --> 00:07:19.400 What other challenges have you observed happening to people in this 121 00:07:19.400 --> 00:07:19.800 time? 122 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:26.300 So I'm I think some of the other challenges is just how to interact in 123 00:07:26.300 --> 00:07:29.400 this new world that were in. So like there's a big debate now about 124 00:07:29.400 --> 00:07:33.800 whether you should wear a mask or or not wear a mask and that's 125 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:35.400 actually created some conflict. 126 00:07:35.400 --> 00:07:38.900 I mean you can see this on social media were people being yelled at 127 00:07:38.900 --> 00:07:42.200 for wearing one or not wearing one and there's all this debate. 128 00:07:42.200 --> 00:07:44.500 I saw a lady recently on social media. 129 00:07:44.500 --> 00:07:47.400 She was saying God put his breath in me. 130 00:07:47.400 --> 00:07:51.400 And so because of that I don't need to wear a mask and making this big 131 00:07:51.400 --> 00:07:57.300 so there's a lot of tension right now in our culture 132 00:07:57.300 --> 00:08:02.400 because of the pandemic and a lot of it has to do with unknowns. 133 00:08:02.400 --> 00:08:04.200 We just don't know a lot about COVID. 134 00:08:14.900 --> 00:08:18.100 And because we don't know a lot about it there's a lot of fear. And so fear drives a lot of how we think about things and how we responding to what is going on amongst each other. Because we are fearful of something that is unknown. 135 00:08:18.100 --> 00:08:18.800 Eventually 136 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:21.400 we're going to know more about this in our fear will go down a little 137 00:08:21.400 --> 00:08:26.300 bit will know how to manage it. But fear is a big factor in in what's 138 00:08:26.300 --> 00:08:30.100 going on and how it is that we are responding to the current situation. 139 00:08:30.100 --> 00:08:32.200 Your not only a psychologist 140 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:36.100 but you're also by virtue of being a seminary Professor a theologian. 141 00:08:36.100 --> 00:08:42.000 True. So isn't did you see this laying bare who we really are as 142 00:08:42.900 --> 00:08:52.800 fallen sinful beings? Right, so it connects to our identity right of who we are so we are fallen and 143 00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:56.600 because that fallenness we should you know, as Luther says we 144 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:59.000 should fear love and trust in God, right? 145 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:02.400 Well, then we end up fear loving and trusting and something else and 146 00:09:02.400 --> 00:09:05.100 that's where the fallenness comes in the play and the challenge that 147 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:08.500 comes when we're not fear, loving and trusting in God. 148 00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:11.000 We're going to fear love and trust and something else and then that's 149 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:12.800 going to create those conflicts that we're seeing 150 00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:17.900 now that are happening amongst amongst people. it's distressing to watch the news which 151 00:09:17.900 --> 00:09:22.100 Diane and I love to do but you watch the news and you see for example 152 00:09:22.100 --> 00:09:24.900 face mask conflicts. 153 00:09:24.900 --> 00:09:29.400 I did read that during the Spanish pandemic a hundred plus years ago. 154 00:09:29.400 --> 00:09:32.600 They had the same issues and back San Francisco the city of San 155 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:36.200 Francisco had an anti face mask league. 156 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:38.400 They were really organized about it. 157 00:09:38.400 --> 00:09:42.300 But you look at you you look at all the controversy this going on and 158 00:09:42.300 --> 00:09:42.800 spills into 159 00:09:42.800 --> 00:09:49.100 so many areas. It has in some cases become partisan political and and 160 00:09:49.100 --> 00:09:53.900 you see people for what they really are and it's all done at a human 161 00:09:53.900 --> 00:09:54.200 level. 162 00:09:54.200 --> 00:10:00.300 So that looking to God seems to me to be one of the dimensions of the 163 00:10:00.300 --> 00:10:05.400 church has to offer the Seminary has to offer to try and get through 164 00:10:05.400 --> 00:10:11.500 this thing whatever getting through this thing means. So that's 165 00:10:11.500 --> 00:10:13.800 a general overview that you've given us. 166 00:10:13.800 --> 00:10:19.100 Let's talk about the challenges with churches have of ministering to 167 00:10:19.100 --> 00:10:21.600 people in a time of crisis. 168 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:22.700 Yeah. 169 00:10:22.700 --> 00:10:27.500 So I mean we all have routines and we don't always realize the 170 00:10:27.500 --> 00:10:29.800 routines that were in until they're shaken up. 171 00:10:29.800 --> 00:10:33.600 So a church itself has a routine like there's worship that takes place 172 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:38.100 pastors are making calls upon people at nursing homes, hospitals and 173 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:42.000 all the sudden this pandemic has interrupted that routine. 174 00:10:42.800 --> 00:10:46.800 So like online there's a meme I saw where it says and just like that 175 00:10:46.800 --> 00:10:52.100 every pastor became a TV evangelist, right and in some of those 176 00:10:52.100 --> 00:10:54.800 pastors it went well for them. 177 00:10:54.800 --> 00:10:58.000 They were okay with that but there are a lot of pastors they're 178 00:10:58.000 --> 00:10:59.000 uncomfortable with that and 179 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:02.500 they don't know how to do it and they're used to preaching or teaching to 180 00:11:02.500 --> 00:11:06.000 the people and now they have a camera in front of them and some of 181 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:09.600 them are not even tech savvy. They don't even know so I was watching so 182 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:14.100 I can watch like 4 to 5 worship Services now and Sunday morning just 183 00:11:14.100 --> 00:11:18.200 through my computer cuz I look at a student's we've had our friends 184 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:18.500 buddies. 185 00:11:18.500 --> 00:11:21.500 I have in the ministry. And the first week one of my buddies 186 00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:27.700 He was someone must have a camera taping him and all the sudden his 187 00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:31.800 eyes had these cartoon eyes well the person taping him must have accidentally hit the 188 00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:33.600 filter that does that kind of stuff. 189 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:37.900 So I texted his wife I said, I think something's wrong, you know, and 190 00:11:37.900 --> 00:11:40.400 and you have all this stuff that cuz we don't know we're not 191 00:11:40.400 --> 00:11:41.600 professionals at this. 192 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:42.700 I mean, there's no 193 00:11:42.800 --> 00:11:45.500 class, maybe we'll have a class Seminary teaches you how to do 194 00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:49.200 this, but we don't currently that I'm aware of and so they were there just 195 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:52.800 struggling to figure out how to live in this new world and yet still 196 00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:57.200 bring that good gospel message the Word of God, to people so that 197 00:11:57.200 --> 00:11:59.500 there's a lot of struggling but we'll figure it out, 198 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:02.900 I mean we'll go get there. In the same way will eventually figure 199 00:12:02.900 --> 00:12:10.200 COVID out. But let's take these pastors who have to struggle to go online now, 200 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:16.100 there's some out there who are doing it already. But I'm imagining we 201 00:12:16.100 --> 00:12:19.400 have not provided resources on how to do this. 202 00:12:19.400 --> 00:12:22.900 You say the Seminary doesn't teach this right now, no doubt. 203 00:12:22.900 --> 00:12:26.000 will. What it what is a pastor 204 00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:33.800 In his being feel when he can't do it the normal way and you know, 205 00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:37.900 he's not getting any affirmation very little affirmation cuz he 206 00:12:37.900 --> 00:12:38.800 doesn't have a crowd there. 207 00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:40.800 What kind of personal things 208 00:12:40.800 --> 00:12:47.200 is he going through? Well I think this is one of my concerns with our 209 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:51.300 clergy is I think they're being stressed out by all this. 210 00:12:51.300 --> 00:12:55.300 I mean you can't really go on a vacation now, you can't really take time 211 00:12:55.300 --> 00:12:57.300 off you have all these extra stressors. 212 00:12:57.300 --> 00:12:58.200 How do you do worship? 213 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:03.300 How do you care for your people in nursing homes hospitals? 214 00:13:03.300 --> 00:13:07.000 How do you do weddings how to do funerals all of a sudden now, 215 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:10.900 everything is more difficult than it was before and they're doing 216 00:13:10.900 --> 00:13:12.800 their best and they're responding to it. 217 00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:15.300 But there I think eventually they're going to start running on fumes 218 00:13:15.300 --> 00:13:19.200 and my worry is that probably after Christmas time. 219 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.900 We might start seeing a lot of our clergy start suffering with 220 00:13:22.900 --> 00:13:23.300 burnout. 221 00:13:23.300 --> 00:13:26.800 They're going to just start burning out because they're there. 222 00:13:26.800 --> 00:13:31.000 Right now responding to everything but they really need someone to try 223 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:34.600 to care for them or to check in with them and to see on how they're 224 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:34.800 doing. 225 00:13:34.800 --> 00:13:39.600 So the stresses of all this having to do things so differently and 226 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:44.400 then the other thing is just the unknown like one of our past students 227 00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:47.700 just posted he's a pastor now that apparently California now has 228 00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:52.600 passed a law or something that you can't have any worship at all in 229 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:53.000 your Sanctuary. 230 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:55.300 They just started going back to the sanctuary. 231 00:13:55.300 --> 00:13:58.900 Now, they've they've taken that away just another stressor. 232 00:13:58.900 --> 00:14:03.900 So all these stressors are adding up and I think that's 233 00:14:03.900 --> 00:14:06.600 going to have an impact upon our clergy at some point. 234 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:10.000 So you're predicting and we hope you're wrong you're predicting 235 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:11.700 burnout as time goes on. 236 00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:14.800 Will you just describe for us what burn out is? 237 00:14:14.800 --> 00:14:16.200 I mean we talk about it all the time 238 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:23.400 but but give this layman an understanding? Well burnout is when think of 239 00:14:23.400 --> 00:14:26.700 it this way you have you know, you have like a full tank right and you 240 00:14:26.800 --> 00:14:27.300 can keep going. 241 00:14:27.300 --> 00:14:30.700 Well that tank gets empty if it's not replenished. 242 00:14:30.700 --> 00:14:35.000 So if it's not replenish and you're not taking care of yourself, then 243 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:40.400 eventually you just won't have the energy to do anything. And 244 00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:44.200 so that that's the concern I have is that you you put forth all this 245 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:45.600 energy at the beginning of the pandemic. 246 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:49.800 But if you're not doing anything to take care of yourself and it kind 247 00:14:49.800 --> 00:14:54.100 of replenish that that tank then eventually you won't be able to go 248 00:14:54.100 --> 00:14:56.600 anymore because you'll just be dry. 249 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:02.100 You know, you'll be run out. Isn't a problem in normal times for 250 00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:02.700 clergy? 251 00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:08.500 Yes, but but in in normal times usually like when I worked at the 252 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:12.600 district office, we'd have a church worker here or there, you know, 253 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:16.900 this is different because this crisis is impacting everyone. 254 00:15:16.900 --> 00:15:21.200 So like a particular church worker may be impacted by specific crisis 255 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:26.300 may be in in his or her situation, you know, whatever that may be. But 256 00:15:26.300 --> 00:15:26.800 what's 257 00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.300 right now is it impacting everyone 258 00:15:29.300 --> 00:15:32.600 it's just not one or two people that are struggling with we're going 259 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:33.500 to struggle with it. 260 00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:35.000 So that would be the biggest difference. 261 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.800 So we have pastors listening to this. 262 00:15:38.800 --> 00:15:44.000 Do you have some easy suggestion practical suggestions 263 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.200 so that a pastor does not burn out. 264 00:15:49.300 --> 00:15:53.300 So first of all, you need to take time off make sure that you're 265 00:15:53.300 --> 00:15:57.200 taking one or two days off a week or take a vacation. 266 00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:01.600 You can't maybe do it the way you wanted to but you have to take you 267 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.900 got to step away from the ministry to to recharge so that you can go 268 00:16:05.900 --> 00:16:09.900 back in again and make sure you have someone who's caring for you. 269 00:16:09.900 --> 00:16:12.500 Some people have Father Confessors, 270 00:16:12.500 --> 00:16:16.300 some people have accountability partners, but someone who's calling 271 00:16:16.300 --> 00:16:20.700 you and praying with you sharing God's Word with you and just giving 272 00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:25.900 you the opportunity to talk. One of the things we know from psychology and 273 00:16:25.900 --> 00:16:29.500 counseling is if you just give people an opportunity just to talk 274 00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:33.800 about what's going on that actually will reduce what we call in the 275 00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:36.000 psychological or post-traumatic stress syndrome, 276 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.900 you probably heard about. If we can get people to talk about the 277 00:16:39.900 --> 00:16:44.100 stressor earlier, then they won't have those then the symptoms won't 278 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:46.200 be as as large later on then. 279 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:47.700 Is this why psychologist say 280 00:16:49.300 --> 00:16:56.500 How are you feeling, Dale? Right. They try to get you to talk about it. Thank you for that trick of the trade. 281 00:16:56.500 --> 00:17:02.500 I suppose that not only with an accountability partner or up a brother 282 00:17:02.500 --> 00:17:07.500 pastor, Father Confessor a pastor is also going to want to make sure 283 00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:13.900 that his church officers especially his Elders know what's going on in 284 00:17:13.900 --> 00:17:17.590 his head and in his heart and and they may not be the ones to 285 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:24.090 counsel him, encourage him. They'll encourage him but just for the welfare 286 00:17:24.090 --> 00:17:28.900 of the congregation the officers need to know to don't they? Right. 287 00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:34.700 So church workers need to be okay with letting their leaders know 288 00:17:34.700 --> 00:17:35.500 what they need. 289 00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:38.600 Because sometimes the leaders don't know what they need or they don't know 290 00:17:38.600 --> 00:17:42.100 they're struggling or they've been working constantly trying to figure 291 00:17:42.100 --> 00:17:45.500 out how to do ministry. That's true in normal times. Yeah, sometimes or 292 00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:45.600 not 293 00:17:45.600 --> 00:17:46.100 we're not communicating 294 00:17:46.100 --> 00:17:50.800 well. So like when I was at the district office, what we would do is 295 00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:54.200 I'd be the one who showed up and made that communication cuz pastors 296 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:57.100 feel guilty about asking for things for themselves. 297 00:17:57.100 --> 00:18:00.500 And so I come in as a district official and ask for them. 298 00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:03.800 I said this is really what your church worker needs and if you could 299 00:18:03.800 --> 00:18:07.100 provide this in this way, so you almost need someone to advocate for 300 00:18:07.100 --> 00:18:07.600 you. 301 00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:11.700 So this would be for more district offices around or those in 302 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:15.600 ecclesiastical supervision if they can advocate for their workers cuz 303 00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:19.000 sometimes workers feel unsure about doing that 304 00:18:19.100 --> 00:18:22.900 for they feel that's a selfish thing to ask for. But if you can let your 305 00:18:22.900 --> 00:18:28.000 your your leaders know what would be helpful like I need two Sundays 306 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.700 off, you know, and let's see if we can find someone to be a able to 307 00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:36.700 help out let them know and if those are leaders are worth their salt 308 00:18:36.700 --> 00:18:40.200 they will find ways to be able to support their Pastor or their 309 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:43.700 teachers or principal, DCE whoever it is. Because they want them to continue 310 00:18:43.700 --> 00:18:47.100 being able to do ministry there in that place. This certainly applies 311 00:18:47.100 --> 00:18:56.900 also to School teachers and other staff members. Who often get lost in normal times, you know, the focus is 312 00:18:56.900 --> 00:19:00.900 on the pastor but your wife being a kindergarten teacher 313 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:05.200 is is probably a prime example of someone who needs support. 314 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:10.300 You just happen to have a psychologist in the home with her but it's 315 00:19:10.300 --> 00:19:11.500 the same correct, right? 316 00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:15.600 Everyone needs that that support in in in in that care and that's why 317 00:19:15.600 --> 00:19:18.800 I think during these times we need to start checking in on each other. 318 00:19:19.100 --> 00:19:24.700 And don't just assume someone's okay, because once something later on 319 00:19:24.700 --> 00:19:28.400 and things go bad, and now they need help will there's 320 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:31.900 preventive things we can do it ahead of time part of it is just 321 00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:36.300 checking in on each other and praying with each other and encouraging 322 00:19:36.300 --> 00:19:39.100 each other during these beasts times, even though they may be 323 00:19:39.100 --> 00:19:39.600 stressful. 324 00:19:39.600 --> 00:19:43.900 One of the things that concerns me is how the church is going to 325 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:48.100 come out of this and we may not come out of it will come through it 326 00:19:48.100 --> 00:19:49.200 to whatever that means. 327 00:19:50.500 --> 00:19:54.800 But there are a lot of people now who can go to church online. 328 00:19:55.900 --> 00:19:59.300 Some of those people I fear will say hey, I don't even have to go 329 00:19:59.300 --> 00:19:59.600 online. 330 00:19:59.600 --> 00:20:02.900 Right. Because that's an American tendency that's been happening in the 331 00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:07.500 last decades organized religion traditional religion is in decline 332 00:20:07.500 --> 00:20:09.600 and if I'm a pastor 333 00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:16.600 and I'm quote-unquote the CEO of this institution and I know pastors 334 00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:19.400 are not exactly CEOs, but they feel responsible. 335 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:21.700 You made that point before they feel responsible. 336 00:20:21.700 --> 00:20:27.700 My congregation might come out very very weakened from the COVID 337 00:20:27.700 --> 00:20:32.900 crisis and I'm worrying about that and that's stressing me out. Right. 338 00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:37.400 I will even now some pastors Award of the financial aspect of it 339 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:40.100 because people are not giving their offering in the same way that they 340 00:20:40.100 --> 00:20:45.800 they did before. But I really think if if the church can start visiting 341 00:20:45.800 --> 00:20:50.500 each other and checking in on each other don't just have just the 342 00:20:50.500 --> 00:20:53.800 video thing you have on Sunday morning, but we need to find a way to 343 00:20:53.800 --> 00:20:56.800 connect with the people in our congregation and see how they're doing. 344 00:20:56.800 --> 00:20:57.900 Now, 345 00:20:57.900 --> 00:20:59.100 you can do that in two ways. 346 00:20:59.100 --> 00:21:00.000 It could be a phone call. 347 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.400 It could be social media. 348 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:06.000 It can be let me just lots of different ways to do it now, but even if 349 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.000 you can make contact with people and just in this would be a simple 350 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:10.100 formula you could do. 351 00:21:10.600 --> 00:21:12.100 The pastor does not have to do this alone. 352 00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:16.500 He can also engage his Elders, leaders or whoever to do it as well. 353 00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:20.800 But you check in with them you say so what's the worst part about this 354 00:21:20.800 --> 00:21:25.400 pandemic and just let them talk and the second thing you do 355 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:29.500 you say so is anything positive come as a result of this pandemic. 356 00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:33.200 Because many times people don't think of anything positive about it, 357 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.900 but there probably are some good things that a kind of popped up. And 358 00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:40.100 then the third thing you do the third step is you say, so, how may I 359 00:21:40.100 --> 00:21:41.100 pray for you today? 360 00:21:41.100 --> 00:21:45.600 And it's a simple formula that we could all use as we check in with 361 00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:45.900 each other. 362 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:49.100 And the thing to remember is by doing this you're not trying to fix 363 00:21:49.100 --> 00:21:49.400 them. 364 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.500 So don't try to solve their problem that this is a huge I run in this 365 00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:56.900 with my students here at Seminary they want to do my fix everyone. 366 00:21:56.900 --> 00:22:01.100 It's that's not the goal of pastoral care and counseling it's simply 367 00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:04.000 let him talk and that they just talk about it. 368 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:05.400 It's amazing how that is 369 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.400 so therapeutic and we can do that with each other. 370 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.400 So what's the what's the worst thing is come 371 00:22:10.600 --> 00:22:14.200 about? With a positive thing and how may I pray for you today and actually 372 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:17.600 have a word of Prayer in their presents were they can hear it about 373 00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:21.200 this thing that they're they're struggling with. Well that's great to hear those are three 374 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:27.400 practical suggestions that I now have that you have for helping church 375 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:32.600 workers through this time. But we've been focusing on church workers 376 00:22:32.600 --> 00:22:35.200 and that's not the whole world. 377 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:40.400 There's all of us just as individuals lay people and church workers 378 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:44.200 alike. We're going to take a short break, but when we come back with 379 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:49.400 Doctor Rockenbach, we're going to start talking about all of us as 380 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:54.600 individuals loved by God, but scared by this crisis, please stay with 381 00:22:54.600 --> 00:22:54.800 us. 382 00:22:55.060 --> 00:22:56.660 Concordia Seminary St. 383 00:22:56.660 --> 00:23:01.460 Louis provides continuing education resources for pastors and lay 384 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:06.560 people. To discover all the Concordia Seminary has for you visit us on 385 00:23:06.560 --> 00:23:09.060 the web at CSL. 386 00:23:09.060 --> 00:23:09.860 EDU. 387 00:23:12.260 --> 00:23:15.860 Welcome back to Word and Work an Intersection. 388 00:23:15.860 --> 00:23:19.460 I'm your host Dale Meyer today our guest is Dr. 389 00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:20.460 Mark Rockenbach. 390 00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:24.560 He's an associate professor of Practical theology at Concordia 391 00:23:24.560 --> 00:23:30.960 Seminary and we are discussing with him the impact of Covid-19 before 392 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:31.460 the break. 393 00:23:31.460 --> 00:23:37.560 We were focusing mainly on church workers pastors, teachers and others 394 00:23:37.560 --> 00:23:42.960 who have this professional responsibility for the care of congregation 395 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.360 members. But let's shift now to individuals. 396 00:23:48.760 --> 00:23:53.660 What's the impact of this on an individual's Faith Life? 397 00:23:55.660 --> 00:23:59.360 Well, you know individuals are used to going to be in worship, 398 00:23:59.360 --> 00:24:03.260 Bible class, whatever they've been doing and now it's it's totally 399 00:24:03.260 --> 00:24:08.660 different. And so they can't be with one another and so sometimes their 400 00:24:08.660 --> 00:24:13.460 prayer life or their devotional life may be lacking. Or another thing 401 00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:18.860 that happens is they may be asking a lot of why questions and why is 402 00:24:18.860 --> 00:24:19.160 this happening? 403 00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:20.860 Why is this happening to me or now? 404 00:24:20.860 --> 00:24:24.560 And then that's not always helpful to ask why questions. 405 00:24:24.560 --> 00:24:27.060 It's better to ask where questions. 406 00:24:27.060 --> 00:24:31.560 So where is God at in the midst of this instead of why is God doing 407 00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:37.260 this. And we're God is at is he is in the midst of us still working he hasn't 408 00:24:37.260 --> 00:24:41.760 an abandoned us hasn't left us although it may feel that way sometimes but 409 00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:45.060 when we're in God's word and reading what his work has to offer we 410 00:24:45.060 --> 00:24:48.460 hear him talking about how I think it's some in the Old Testament 411 00:24:48.460 --> 00:24:52.360 talks about how the flowers, you know will wither and disappear the 412 00:24:52.360 --> 00:24:55.560 grass but the word of the Lord remains forever, right? 413 00:24:55.760 --> 00:25:01.260 And His word is there so it is a strain upon everyone in regards to 414 00:25:01.260 --> 00:25:05.360 their faith, but God never going to abandon us and he'll never leave 415 00:25:05.360 --> 00:25:09.060 us he'll always be there to provide for us, but he'll provide 416 00:25:09.060 --> 00:25:12.560 according to his will and purpose not according to our will and 417 00:25:12.560 --> 00:25:13.860 purpose and I can be a struggle 418 00:25:13.860 --> 00:25:19.360 sometimes. This is a great great insight from a pastor obviously and I thank 419 00:25:19.360 --> 00:25:24.160 you for it. Somebody pointed out to me years ago that we say why you know. 420 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:24.860 Why is this happening? 421 00:25:24.860 --> 00:25:29.060 Well, if we knew the answer it would make any difference if that we 422 00:25:29.060 --> 00:25:32.460 probably couldn't stand the answer if God told us why this is 423 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:34.560 happening. Instead 424 00:25:34.560 --> 00:25:36.860 you know, what do I do with this? 425 00:25:36.860 --> 00:25:38.360 How do I deal with it? 426 00:25:38.360 --> 00:25:42.760 Just as Jesus dealt with suffering he took the cards that were dealt 427 00:25:42.760 --> 00:25:48.160 him and faced it. One of the great things about devotion 428 00:25:49.060 --> 00:25:54.260 is that it's garbage out in oh why is this happening to me? 429 00:25:54.260 --> 00:25:55.960 Well if I knew it wouldn't make any difference 430 00:25:55.960 --> 00:26:00.660 anyway, I've got to deal with this garbage out. But it's the word in 431 00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:08.760 and the promises of God are so significant at a time like this for for 432 00:26:08.760 --> 00:26:12.260 group worship and also for personal devotion, we should talk more 433 00:26:12.260 --> 00:26:17.560 about the promises of God that he gives to us when we don't know which 434 00:26:17.560 --> 00:26:18.060 end is up? 435 00:26:18.060 --> 00:26:22.060 Alright, we just to read scripture notice the promises he makes and he 436 00:26:22.060 --> 00:26:25.560 always fulfills his promises to his people that's how we can trust him 437 00:26:25.560 --> 00:26:29.660 and trust his word. And so if you're reading that word of God and he 438 00:26:29.660 --> 00:26:32.860 promises these things, you know that he'll never forsake you or never 439 00:26:32.860 --> 00:26:36.960 leave you. And that's not the one of the things I got this from 440 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.560 John Klein Nekoosa a Theologian. 441 00:26:40.560 --> 00:26:43.660 He says when you read God's word, you should always read it out loud. 442 00:26:43.660 --> 00:26:47.960 I'd always read God's word internally, but as you read God's word 443 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:48.960 out loud you got to 444 00:26:49.060 --> 00:26:49.660 here it as 445 00:26:49.660 --> 00:26:53.460 well and you hear those promises and that really helps out a lot. 446 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:57.860 So part of the devotional life is how it is that we do that devotional 447 00:26:57.860 --> 00:27:02.260 life and who we do it with and especially when you hear God saying I'm 448 00:27:02.260 --> 00:27:05.360 not going to leave you I'm not going to forsake you. In the Old 449 00:27:05.360 --> 00:27:08.060 Testament talks about Tabernacleing amongst his people. 450 00:27:08.060 --> 00:27:10.760 He never left his people. In the New Testament 451 00:27:10.760 --> 00:27:15.450 Jesus becomes that you know that Temple that Tabernacle in the sense and 452 00:27:15.450 --> 00:27:17.960 and no matter what happens or what takes place. 453 00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:22.760 God is never going to forsake you or leave you he's still there. And 454 00:27:22.760 --> 00:27:25.860 that's why I think sharing with them that when our being 455 00:27:25.860 --> 00:27:28.860 social with one another while being physically distance is still 456 00:27:28.860 --> 00:27:33.260 important to give other people remind you of that. We say, hey God is 457 00:27:33.260 --> 00:27:37.160 not abandoning you he is here in your midst and he still providing for you 458 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.260 in ways that maybe you hadn't even imagined that he would provide for 459 00:27:40.260 --> 00:27:46.260 you. In the first segment you talked about just just voicing just speaking 460 00:27:46.260 --> 00:27:47.260 how you're feeling. 461 00:27:47.260 --> 00:27:48.360 What's bad. 462 00:27:48.360 --> 00:27:48.660 What's good. 463 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:52.160 And we don't need to fix it. 464 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:56.260 Just get it out verbally and here you're applying the same thing to 465 00:27:56.260 --> 00:27:59.460 devotion read the word of God out loud out loud. 466 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:04.960 I know but when I have talked with counselors and just saying it 467 00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:10.760 saying it helps crystallized what's really going on in me. And that's 468 00:28:10.760 --> 00:28:14.560 one of the reasons why we go to church physically go to church just to 469 00:28:14.560 --> 00:28:18.660 hear what we met already know. Right. But it but it but it makes it 470 00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:19.660 makes it real. 471 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:27.460 The 42nd Psalm has a great passage that that I just love. 472 00:28:27.460 --> 00:28:29.260 Why art thou cast down. 473 00:28:29.260 --> 00:28:29.960 Oh my soul. 474 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:32.460 And why art thou disquieted within me? 475 00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:39.460 Hope thou in God and I shall yet again Praise Him My Savior and and 476 00:28:39.460 --> 00:28:45.460 and my my my salvation and my God. You know, ya bad stuff is 477 00:28:45.460 --> 00:28:50.460 happening, but we focus on God and and and you know, and I know and I 478 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:55.260 trust you all know the word of God actually touches us we can feel the 479 00:28:55.260 --> 00:28:57.360 change in mood as we 480 00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.960 go through read hear hear his word. 481 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:06.760 One things we all have to deal with lay people and church workers 482 00:29:06.760 --> 00:29:13.660 alike our new routines. Would you talk about how you maintain 483 00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:18.060 balance or maybe talk about how you lose balance and then try and get 484 00:29:18.060 --> 00:29:21.060 it back in this world of new routines? 485 00:29:21.060 --> 00:29:25.160 Well a lot of people had to start working from home, which is a whole 486 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:29.060 new routine and there can be good and bad to that 487 00:29:29.060 --> 00:29:29.360 of course. 488 00:29:29.360 --> 00:29:34.260 So like for example 9 now, I can just walk down to the kitchen and I 489 00:29:34.260 --> 00:29:37.060 open up a refrigerator and eat on a regular basis. 490 00:29:37.060 --> 00:29:40.460 Where here at the Seminary I do not have that opportunity to have that routine. 491 00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:40.760 Right? 492 00:29:40.760 --> 00:29:45.060 So and so you may find that you gained a little bit more weight, but 493 00:29:45.060 --> 00:29:49.160 it's important like if you're going to work you have a schedule you 494 00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.760 get up and say you you shower you shave your brush your teeth. 495 00:29:52.760 --> 00:29:56.760 You do everything even wear the clothes need to wear that routine will 496 00:29:56.760 --> 00:29:58.160 help you to actually 497 00:29:58.160 --> 00:29:59.460 do your work at home. 498 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:03.960 If you can't come in to where it where your office is and then you 499 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:06.860 have to have a schedule time work then you're with family. 500 00:30:06.860 --> 00:30:11.560 But what happens is either people become so obsessed with work that 501 00:30:11.560 --> 00:30:13.160 because now they're working at home. 502 00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:16.460 All they do is work at home and they never take time away from it 503 00:30:16.460 --> 00:30:20.660 and that's problematic or in the other end of spectrum you have people who 504 00:30:20.660 --> 00:30:24.060 they're doing more with family and the work is suffering. 505 00:30:24.060 --> 00:30:29.060 And so you have to find a routine that works and if you have that 506 00:30:29.060 --> 00:30:32.260 routine and you just followed on a regular basis, it'll actually make 507 00:30:32.260 --> 00:30:36.160 you more productive both in your family life and also in all the work 508 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:39.260 that you're being asked to do. And the other thing think about is 509 00:30:39.260 --> 00:30:40.260 expectations. 510 00:30:40.260 --> 00:30:46.760 So sometimes our expectations are not correct and we got to anticipate 511 00:30:46.760 --> 00:30:48.160 what those expectations are. 512 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:51.860 So like when we all started when online my expectation was everyone 513 00:30:51.860 --> 00:30:55.960 in the house would be in their own room doing their own thing and 514 00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:58.160 Wi-Fi or the internet would 515 00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.960 manage it but it didn't always do that. 516 00:30:59.960 --> 00:31:03.060 So sometimes I have lagging issues cuz we were all in the intern at 517 00:31:03.060 --> 00:31:03.860 the same time. 518 00:31:03.860 --> 00:31:09.960 I'm in my in my room trying to do my teaching and Darlene's in the 519 00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:13.160 other room teaching Kindergarten now teaching kindergarten online. 520 00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:16.260 She's like saying will hi Jimmy. 521 00:31:16.260 --> 00:31:16.560 How are you? 522 00:31:16.560 --> 00:31:18.360 Oh is that your new dog you got and 523 00:31:18.360 --> 00:31:22.560 they're showing their their stuffed animals to her. That's a little different then teaching 524 00:31:22.560 --> 00:31:27.560 Seminary. Totally different but yet my Seminary class can hear her over 525 00:31:27.560 --> 00:31:29.060 here her in the other room. 526 00:31:29.060 --> 00:31:33.060 So we had talked about expectations then about how we're going to do 527 00:31:33.060 --> 00:31:35.560 this and how we're going to manage it and I know talking to other 528 00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:39.360 people that have similar kind of struggles, you know, just being at 529 00:31:39.360 --> 00:31:41.060 home and how you going to figure that out. 530 00:31:41.060 --> 00:31:44.960 So one response is you can get mad and get angry about it have a big fight 531 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.860 that's not going to help or you can sit down and talk about it. 532 00:31:48.860 --> 00:31:52.960 Say we need to figure out a better way to do this so we can still all 533 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:55.760 do we need to do that goes back to expectations? 534 00:31:55.760 --> 00:31:57.660 What are our expectations and how do we 535 00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:03.260 coordinate together to be able to to move this forward. When you 536 00:32:03.260 --> 00:32:08.260 talk about expectations and then about routines being changed you 537 00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:09.360 mentioned anger. 538 00:32:10.560 --> 00:32:15.760 Is anger on the increase because of this virus? I think so because 539 00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:20.460 anytime something is out of our control one of the responses, you'll 540 00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:22.560 see from people is anger. 541 00:32:22.560 --> 00:32:27.760 So someone who gets overly angry or just blows up many times 542 00:32:27.760 --> 00:32:31.060 it means that they feel out of control and that's the response that 543 00:32:31.060 --> 00:32:31.460 you're getting. 544 00:32:31.460 --> 00:32:35.060 So when you see the stuff happening like the Social Media stuff for 545 00:32:35.060 --> 00:32:39.160 stuff at the stores so people need to feel sense of control. But 546 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:43.760 if you have a routine you have good expectations, then you'll feel 547 00:32:43.760 --> 00:32:48.460 more in control and hopefully then you won't respond in a sinfully 548 00:32:48.460 --> 00:32:52.460 angry kind of response than two other people. In the first segment you 549 00:32:52.460 --> 00:32:56.160 talked about filling your bucket and you were speaking about pastors 550 00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:56.260 there. 551 00:32:56.260 --> 00:33:03.160 How about the rest of us filling our bucket in this strange time. Yeah, so to 552 00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:07.360 fill your bucket when you feel that your empty is you need people to 553 00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:10.460 speak into your life. And so 554 00:33:10.460 --> 00:33:15.660 you need to have someone who cares for you and that goes with church 555 00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:17.560 workers are or non church or doesn't matter. 556 00:33:17.560 --> 00:33:21.860 You need someone to kind of do that for you and you need to find 557 00:33:21.860 --> 00:33:24.460 things you can do outside of your house. 558 00:33:24.460 --> 00:33:28.660 So you can go on a walk in the park or you can drive in your car. 559 00:33:28.660 --> 00:33:32.760 There are things you can still do during a pandemic. 560 00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:35.560 If you're just isolated in your house in front of a computer screen, 561 00:33:35.560 --> 00:33:39.160 that's not going to go well over an extended period 562 00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:39.360 of time. 563 00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:44.160 You have to get out you have to do other things and you have to be 564 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:45.560 social with other people. 565 00:33:45.560 --> 00:33:46.960 However, you're comfortable doing that. 566 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.060 You know, you got to be social with other people cuz we are people 567 00:33:51.060 --> 00:33:56.360 designed to be with one another. And when that's taken away for totally 568 00:33:56.360 --> 00:33:59.460 going to be socially distant from one another that's going to have huge 569 00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:00.060 issues. 570 00:34:00.060 --> 00:34:04.060 It's better to be physically distant, but it's socially engaged with 571 00:34:04.060 --> 00:34:05.960 one another that's going to fill your bucket up. 572 00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.160 I think there are many couples. 573 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:15.860 Who can do this for one another husbands and wives children too. On the 574 00:34:15.860 --> 00:34:16.360 other hand 575 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:19.360 there are probably couples who are ready to kill each other because 576 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.860 they haven't been together this much. Right, right. 577 00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:27.360 It's a threat or blessing to marriage. 578 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:27.860 Right. 579 00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:29.860 So but look at it as an opportunity. 580 00:34:29.860 --> 00:34:34.060 It is an opportunity to sit down and start talking about things 581 00:34:34.060 --> 00:34:39.160 instead of just pushing back on the on the other person. 582 00:34:39.160 --> 00:34:41.860 So like my wife and I we had to figure out what we're going to do with this 583 00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:44.660 whole thing with her teaching kindergarten in the other room. But you 584 00:34:44.660 --> 00:34:47.460 have to talk through it and figure out a way forward. So it's really an 585 00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:51.960 opportunity to work on communication skills for married couples now 586 00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:53.460 whether or not they actually want to do that or not. 587 00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:55.260 That's a whole nother issue. 588 00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:59.760 Maybe they don't want to but it would sure be a blessing to them. And 589 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.560 there's lots of resources now online cuz they're doing a lot of 590 00:35:02.560 --> 00:35:07.560 counseling on your online now so many people probably have something 591 00:35:07.560 --> 00:35:09.760 called EAP as a part of their insurance 592 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:13.860 program called Employer Assistance Program. And what we've 593 00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:18.260 discovered even before the pandemic that if we helped people with their 594 00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:19.260 issues at home. 595 00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:24.760 If a if then they would be more productive at work and so employers 596 00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:29.060 started offering for free EAP or they were paying for it was free to 597 00:35:29.060 --> 00:35:32.860 the employee because they realize that they could actually get more 598 00:35:32.860 --> 00:35:37.060 work out of them if their issues at home were actually taken care of. 599 00:35:37.060 --> 00:35:42.160 And many people probably have EAP don't even realize it. So they're having 600 00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:45.560 issues with their spouse or because of being home in the pandemic. 601 00:35:45.560 --> 00:35:49.160 They should look into that and reach out for those resources that 602 00:35:49.160 --> 00:35:51.860 could be very very much a blessing to them. 603 00:35:51.860 --> 00:35:54.760 So I'm a person who works for 604 00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:04.060 Ford Motors, how do I find out if I have EAP available to me? It all 605 00:36:04.060 --> 00:36:07.860 depends upon which organization work for and which insurance company. 606 00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:10.860 But many times if they just take their insurance card and may flip it 607 00:36:10.860 --> 00:36:14.760 over to the back and they'll see something say EAP and a phone 608 00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:20.760 number or a website. Or you can contact they can contact their human 609 00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:25.260 resource officer or sometimes there's maybe a website they can go to 610 00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:30.260 and in just type in EAP maybe in some of those sources and see if it 611 00:36:30.260 --> 00:36:34.760 comes up. But many times it's on the insurance card so like for my 612 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:38.460 insurance card if I just flip it over that I have EAP is listed on the 613 00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:40.060 back with a phone number of that 614 00:36:40.060 --> 00:36:45.160 you can call. Well that's another practical practical bit of advise and thank you very much for that. 615 00:36:45.160 --> 00:36:47.860 We're getting a lot of practical things were doing theory, but we're 616 00:36:47.860 --> 00:36:52.060 getting practical things to. It occurs to me as as we're talkin about 617 00:36:52.060 --> 00:36:52.760 being home. 618 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:59.360 Husband and wife and children can be physically close, you know, we 619 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:01.060 don't have to stay away from each other. 620 00:37:01.060 --> 00:37:05.160 Now, you have to be careful where you go out and what you bring in but 621 00:37:05.160 --> 00:37:09.760 that hasn't changed right? No, that's right. 622 00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.160 Now that I'm retired, I'm spending more time with Diane. 623 00:37:13.160 --> 00:37:19.660 I have little understanding of more time together and it is it's a 624 00:37:19.660 --> 00:37:24.660 great blessing. Are there formulas for checking in with one another, 625 00:37:24.660 --> 00:37:30.460 you know. Well kind of what kind of what I said earlier is you know, what's 626 00:37:30.460 --> 00:37:34.960 stressful about this what's positive and then just saying, how may I 627 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:38.560 pray for you is really the formula that's going to be helpful for everyone 628 00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:40.260 doesn't matter if your church work or not. 629 00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:44.960 If you use that formula that creates a good way to be social with one 630 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:48.660 another and show care for one another and just remember that the goal 631 00:37:48.660 --> 00:37:49.560 is not to fix it. 632 00:37:49.560 --> 00:37:52.560 The goal is just to listen and just be there. 633 00:37:53.260 --> 00:37:58.460 With the with the other person. There there's nothing more caring 634 00:37:58.460 --> 00:38:01.960 than if you're struggling with someone and someone just sitting next 635 00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:06.460 to your bedside and they're just in there with you in so we can just 636 00:38:06.460 --> 00:38:07.060 be there. 637 00:38:07.060 --> 00:38:10.260 However that works in this environment how we can find a way to make 638 00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:10.660 it work. 639 00:38:10.660 --> 00:38:14.260 If you can just be there with people that usually is very very 640 00:38:14.260 --> 00:38:14.460 helpful. 641 00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:19.960 You're also mentioned in that connection and praying with one another 642 00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:26.460 and in a lot of us are not good prayers are we think we are not good 643 00:38:26.460 --> 00:38:31.060 prayers, you know, we give that to the minister to do who has the 644 00:38:31.060 --> 00:38:31.760 theological 645 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:36.260 jargon to bring out. Would you talk about what a prayer would be like 646 00:38:36.260 --> 00:38:42.060 after you checked in with somebody and just heard them and have them 647 00:38:42.060 --> 00:38:42.660 talk. 648 00:38:42.660 --> 00:38:47.360 It could be as simple as this again can be a formula that you can use 649 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:53.160 is let's say someone is really just struggling with 650 00:38:53.260 --> 00:38:57.260 the whole pandemic thing and this whole transition that is 651 00:38:57.260 --> 00:38:58.460 happening, right that's going on. 652 00:38:58.460 --> 00:39:01.760 They said well, I'm really struggling cuz I have mailed see my friends 653 00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:03.360 my family or go to work and the like. 654 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:07.860 So a simple prayer would be first or you just you can use Dear God 655 00:39:07.860 --> 00:39:10.860 Dear heavenly father there's lots of different ways 656 00:39:10.860 --> 00:39:14.960 we start a prayer but whatever is comfortable to you. And say in the 657 00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:19.460 same way that you provided for people in the Old Testament who felt 658 00:39:19.460 --> 00:39:23.760 isolated or who felt separated for example, you know, we can talk 659 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:27.660 about, you know, when the Israelites, you know, where we're separate 660 00:39:27.660 --> 00:39:31.360 from from their Homeland in from people in the same way that they 661 00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:33.160 struggled and you provided for them. 662 00:39:33.160 --> 00:39:37.560 We ask also that you help Jim in this in his struggle in 663 00:39:37.560 --> 00:39:42.660 him feeling separated from family members and like. And we ask 664 00:39:42.660 --> 00:39:47.060 so it's told you how it works is your introduction and you say just as 665 00:39:47.060 --> 00:39:52.060 so you refer to something in scripture we ask that and now you insert 666 00:39:52.060 --> 00:39:53.160 the person's request. 667 00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:56.260 And then you just simply end it in the name of Jesus Christ. 668 00:39:56.260 --> 00:40:00.460 And that's a great little formula people can use we we often 669 00:40:00.460 --> 00:40:03.060 referred to as collects kind of when we do write collects 670 00:40:03.060 --> 00:40:03.650 they're very similar. 671 00:40:03.650 --> 00:40:07.150 So if you look at the collects that we have the church has a use the 672 00:40:07.150 --> 00:40:08.650 very similar kind of formula. 673 00:40:08.650 --> 00:40:11.560 So if you use that formula when you pray with someone see now that 674 00:40:11.560 --> 00:40:14.760 gives you something to use. Now you got to know your scripture 675 00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:19.260 pretty good to know what to refer to or to relate to. So its goes back to 676 00:40:19.260 --> 00:40:22.860 the importance of being in God's word and reading it. But when you're 677 00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:26.260 in God's word and reading it then you can relate them and connect that 678 00:40:26.260 --> 00:40:27.260 back to God's word, 679 00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:30.960 whatever it is it that they're struggling with. Can we take it 680 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:33.760 one step even easier. 681 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:35.760 Dear God 682 00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:43.360 I don't know what to make of this and I'm scared by this and what's 683 00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:49.260 what's to become of me and just lay there that out in silence. True. In 684 00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:56.260 Jesus name. Yes. In Jesus name. So sometimes you can just, that's appropriate to so you can do either 685 00:40:56.260 --> 00:40:59.060 one of those and that's the cool thing is we have options. 686 00:40:59.060 --> 00:41:03.960 We have lots of ways that we can talk to God and pray to him and 687 00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:05.260 whatever you're comfortable with 688 00:41:05.260 --> 00:41:07.760 you can choose that one at as as you do that. 689 00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:13.260 We're going to somehow get through this crisis. 690 00:41:14.260 --> 00:41:20.060 What do you see in the months and years ahead will we ever get back to 691 00:41:20.060 --> 00:41:20.760 normal? 692 00:41:22.560 --> 00:41:27.260 It all depends on what how you define normal, of course, whether or 693 00:41:27.260 --> 00:41:28.860 not we'll ever shake hands with each other 694 00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:33.360 I don't know cuz it's hard to tell. We'll probably be much better at 695 00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:36.760 washing our hands much better at cleansing things, 696 00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:41.260 we should've been doing that anyway to begin with. But but the one 697 00:41:41.260 --> 00:41:46.760 thing that we know for sure is that whatever comes God's going to be 698 00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:49.860 there in the midst of it and provide. And there may be opportunities 699 00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:55.260 that that will happen that we didn't even realize there was an 700 00:41:55.260 --> 00:41:59.860 opportunity there and and now all the sudden now we have different 701 00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:02.760 ways of serving each other different ways of caring for each other. 702 00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:07.160 So I don't know it's hard to predict the future what things are going 703 00:42:07.160 --> 00:42:12.460 to look like. When you go through some sort of crisis like this, it's 704 00:42:12.460 --> 00:42:14.760 you it's never going to be the same. 705 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:19.160 You can't you you can never go back to the way it was before. 706 00:42:19.160 --> 00:42:22.460 It's just you got to learn how to live in the midst of 707 00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:28.260 in a way that is Godly and appropriate. Social commentators have have 708 00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:30.960 observed that the modern 709 00:42:32.060 --> 00:42:33.160 religious people 710 00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:39.160 often are functional atheist because we can get along on our own. We 711 00:42:39.160 --> 00:42:40.460 run the institutional church. 712 00:42:40.460 --> 00:42:43.160 We do the spiritual things on Sunday 713 00:42:43.160 --> 00:42:48.560 at least one when we could the old way, but in fact we've put got on 714 00:42:48.560 --> 00:42:53.360 the margins and we're putting the burden all on us. And I would think 715 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:58.560 of one of the opportunities now is to say hey God is present be still 716 00:42:58.560 --> 00:43:04.660 and know that I am God. And so faith can grow especially if 717 00:43:04.660 --> 00:43:08.960 we're doing the devotion the word of God prayer the conversation of 718 00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:13.260 fellow believers. This is a great opportunity for us. Right, and 719 00:43:13.260 --> 00:43:16.460 especially if you're in God's words a lot of those people talk about 720 00:43:16.460 --> 00:43:20.260 their kind of functional atheist, you know, it may be in in church 721 00:43:20.260 --> 00:43:24.160 work. What we know as many of them are not in the word of God and 722 00:43:24.160 --> 00:43:27.360 they're not in prayer and they don't have some sort of accountability 723 00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:29.160 partner or father Confessor. 724 00:43:29.160 --> 00:43:32.760 But if you have those things in place it will root you even more 725 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:33.960 into God's word. 726 00:43:34.260 --> 00:43:38.060 And the more you're rooted into God's word that the less you're going 727 00:43:38.060 --> 00:43:41.560 to worry about some of the things that that are going on. 728 00:43:41.560 --> 00:43:44.960 My son my youngest son. 729 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:48.560 He he's big he's big on prayer. And so something happens 730 00:43:48.560 --> 00:43:51.560 and he'll say well have you prayed about it just pray about it. 731 00:43:51.560 --> 00:43:55.960 And so he's big on that and that's what he does in his own life as 732 00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:59.860 well as he brings a lot of that to the Lord and cuz he doesn't know 733 00:43:59.860 --> 00:44:00.960 how to fix it or how to do it. 734 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.360 But he has found comfort in the fact that he just lays it in the 735 00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:08.660 Lord's hands and allows the Lord to do something with that. And who 736 00:44:08.660 --> 00:44:12.460 knows what that's going to look like but God is always promise that he 737 00:44:12.460 --> 00:44:15.860 will provide for us and he will care for us. What you say makes me 738 00:44:15.860 --> 00:44:20.460 think of a favorite hymn verse of mine fear not I am with thee Oh Be not 739 00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:23.860 dismayed for I am thy God and will still give thee aid. 740 00:44:23.860 --> 00:44:27.860 I'll strengthen thee, help thee and cause thee to stand upheld by my 741 00:44:27.860 --> 00:44:29.460 righteous omnipotent 742 00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:34.160 hand. That's the promise and we trust in times of crisis our 743 00:44:34.160 --> 00:44:36.160 Lord's promises. Doctor Rockenbach 744 00:44:36.160 --> 00:44:39.660 thanks for joining us today and helping us to travel through this 745 00:44:39.660 --> 00:44:44.560 unique time in society and and also in the church. And thank you our 746 00:44:44.560 --> 00:44:45.860 audience for being with us. 747 00:44:45.860 --> 00:44:52.060 I'm Dale Meyer and as always may the intersection of Word and Work be 748 00:44:52.060 --> 00:44:53.960 busy on your corner.