WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:27.400 Hello and welcome to Word and Work an Intersection. 2 00:00:27.400 --> 00:00:29.300 I'm your host Dale Meyer. 3 00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:31.800 This hour we'll talk with Dr. 4 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.900 Leopoldo Sanchez. At Concordia Seminary 5 00:00:34.900 --> 00:00:35.300 Dr. 6 00:00:35.300 --> 00:00:39.900 Sanchez is a professor of Systematic Theology and is also Director of 7 00:00:39.900 --> 00:00:44.600 the Center for Hispanic Studies. We'll talk with him about his new book 8 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:45.700 oh boy. 9 00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:49.500 Escatologia La Esperanza Christiana. 10 00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:56.100 Welcome Leo, but first of all say it properly. No I think you did a 11 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:56.400 great job. 12 00:00:56.400 --> 00:01:00.600 Escatologia La Esperanza Christiana. 13 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:05.600 Okay, and that translates into? Eschatology. Oh good 14 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:10.500 I mean you bet might as well be in a foreign language to. What is 15 00:01:10.500 --> 00:01:11.100 eschatology? 16 00:01:11.100 --> 00:01:15.900 It's the study of the last things eschatos last things. 17 00:01:15.900 --> 00:01:16.400 Okay. 18 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:20.700 I mean like judgment day is the end of the world. The Resurrection, 19 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:25.800 the return of Christ. But also the last things have very much to do with the 20 00:01:25.800 --> 00:01:26.200 present. 21 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:33.000 So the last things I have already already present in some way among us 22 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.000 so we can talk about that more. And then the subtitle is Christian 23 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:39.700 Hope, esperanza, hope. 24 00:01:39.700 --> 00:01:46.900 I like that we really need hope in in these troubled times that were in. 25 00:01:46.900 --> 00:01:48.900 Let's back up. You've been on the faculty 26 00:01:48.900 --> 00:01:53.500 how long? I think about 16 years. 16 Okay, so 27 00:01:54.600 --> 00:01:58.100 you came just a little bit before I became president. 28 00:01:58.100 --> 00:02:01.300 Probably just about a year or so. 29 00:02:01.300 --> 00:02:05.000 Okay, tell us about your history. 30 00:02:06.100 --> 00:02:11.900 Where you were born? How Lord led you to the Lutheran Church and also to 31 00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:15.500 Concordia Seminary? Leo is a great colleague 32 00:02:15.500 --> 00:02:17.100 and we all just love him. 33 00:02:17.100 --> 00:02:20.900 We also know that we can tease and he can tease back. 34 00:02:20.900 --> 00:02:31.200 But tells about your life Journey cuz it's fascinating. I was born in Chile in South America, my mother is from Chile. My father is from 35 00:02:31.200 --> 00:02:31.700 Panama. 36 00:02:31.700 --> 00:02:37.700 So dad went down there the study met mom and that's where I was born. 37 00:02:37.700 --> 00:02:39.000 And then we move to Panama. 38 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:43.400 So I was actually raised in Panama Central America in the City of 39 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:47.700 Panama and then I came to the United States as a foreign exchange 40 00:02:47.700 --> 00:02:48.500 student. 41 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:56.400 And lived with a family in Iowa, Williamsburg, Iowa population 5000 42 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.300 Highway 80 and they were Lutheran. 43 00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:03.400 And so that's how that happened. 44 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:09.100 So from Chile to Panama to the United States Midwest and that was 45 00:03:09.100 --> 00:03:12.500 for high school when I came to the us a couple of years. And they 46 00:03:12.500 --> 00:03:14.200 invited me to church. 47 00:03:14.200 --> 00:03:18.100 And that's where that began the connection with the Lutheran 48 00:03:18.100 --> 00:03:19.100 Church-Missouri Synod. 49 00:03:19.100 --> 00:03:22.900 And so I was confirm a couple years after that. There's a pastor in 50 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:27.800 Litchfield, Illinois Myron Multz who went to Lynchburg to 51 00:03:29.700 --> 00:03:37.300 Iowa Iowa, where was it in Iowa, Williamsburg. So, where did 52 00:03:37.300 --> 00:03:38.300 you meet your wife Tracey? 53 00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:39.900 So that was in college. 54 00:03:39.900 --> 00:03:43.900 So then you know my connection with the Lutheran Church. 55 00:03:43.900 --> 00:03:46.400 I thought about going into the ministry. 56 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:53.500 And so I joined the program pre Seminary program at Concordia Wisconsin 57 00:03:53.500 --> 00:03:55.300 ended up doing theology, 58 00:03:56.600 --> 00:04:00.300 languages and so on and that's where I met her. You know and 59 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:04.300 one of the best things that ever happened to me, right? 60 00:04:04.300 --> 00:04:09.000 So we have two kids Lucas who is in college now and then Anna who's 61 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:16.390 in high school there both freshman. And Tracy's last name Von Behren. 62 00:04:16.390 --> 00:04:18.890 So where the Sanchez-Von Behren family. So it 63 00:04:18.890 --> 00:04:28.800 sounds like we should be going on tour singing for the people. Your a musician. Yeah, that's true that started in Panama. 64 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:34.800 I used to go to regular school and then Conservatory in the afternoon. 65 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:39.500 So I started with the chello and then moved to the to the base or most 66 00:04:39.500 --> 00:04:40.900 of bigger and better things. 67 00:04:40.900 --> 00:04:42.800 I would say. And tell us about 68 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:50.500 your activity now with the Base. We have in St. Louis a number of Civic 69 00:04:50.500 --> 00:04:53.800 Orchestras. A town orchestras 70 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.900 and so I've been playing with the Saint Louis Civic Orchestra. It's out of 71 00:04:57.900 --> 00:05:06.800 Chesterfield. Use to be out of Kirkwood and then Clayton, but now out of Chesterfield and has 72 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:14.600 been a wonderful experience playing classical music, pops concerts 73 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:20.700 things like that. So your a totally well rounded person. Well in more then one way. 74 00:05:20.700 --> 00:05:26.300 So now let's let's talk about this book on eschatology in English. This 75 00:05:26.300 --> 00:05:30.000 as part of a series from Concordia Publishing House tell us about the 76 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:35.100 series? This is really a landmark series is the 77 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:40.000 first Spanish language 78 00:05:41.200 --> 00:05:43.700 theological series 79 00:05:44.700 --> 00:05:48.400 in the Spanish-speaking the world that that is written from a Lutheran 80 00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:57.700 biblical confessional perspective. And the series began in 2004 with 81 00:05:57.700 --> 00:06:02.500 the publication of think it was worship by Dr. 82 00:06:02.500 --> 00:06:07.600 Douglas Groll who is an emeritus of Concordia Seminary was the former 83 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:11.400 Director of the Center for Hispanic Studies when it was called 84 00:06:11.400 --> 00:06:12.400 Hispanic Institute. 85 00:06:12.400 --> 00:06:17.800 So he inaugurated the series the series now has 10 volumes. 86 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:23.800 So Escatologia represents the latest volume and 87 00:06:25.100 --> 00:06:30.700 It's wonderful because you know before this you had things in Spanish 88 00:06:30.700 --> 00:06:36.700 which which are important works, but they were all translated, you know 89 00:06:36.700 --> 00:06:38.200 from the original language. 90 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:41.900 They were written into Spanish so you could find the book of Concord. 91 00:06:41.900 --> 00:06:48.700 You could find CFW Walter's Law and Gospel there were 10 volumes of 92 00:06:48.700 --> 00:06:54.200 Luther translated into Spanish previously. 93 00:06:54.200 --> 00:06:59.700 So this is kinda of what you were dealing with. There was also Christian doctrine from 94 00:06:59.700 --> 00:07:00.700 Mueller. 95 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:07.700 But nothing written really in Spanish originally, you know, so 96 00:07:07.700 --> 00:07:12.000 original works written in the Spanish language by Lutheran 97 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:19.200 theologians, either Latin American or US Hispanic or non-hispanics or 98 00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:24.800 non-Latinos who had been working in Latin America or Hispanic US ministries. 99 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:27.500 And these are contemporary books. Yes. 100 00:07:27.500 --> 00:07:35.500 Not not the ancient books of the Book of Concord, Walter, etc and not 101 00:07:35.500 --> 00:07:36.400 putting those down. 102 00:07:36.400 --> 00:07:43.700 But but we need contemporary books by Spanish authors. Right, so how do you apply the best 103 00:07:43.700 --> 00:07:49.600 of Lutheran Theology to the current questions coming out of the 104 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:54.800 Spanish-speaking, you know on the Latin American World. Which really 105 00:07:54.800 --> 00:08:00.500 is is big you know because it would include the Iberian World Spain 106 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:02.500 specific and they're not in America. 107 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:07.900 Yeah, Spain and then Latin America of course and then the United States 108 00:08:07.900 --> 00:08:10.900 because you have a large Hispanic Latino presence here. 109 00:08:10.900 --> 00:08:12.900 Where is the series being distributed? 110 00:08:14.100 --> 00:08:16.500 It's really this distribute all over the place. 111 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:23.500 They were different venues in Mexico, Columbia 112 00:08:23.500 --> 00:08:28.300 I mean you name it, but it's oh so now, you know with the digital era 113 00:08:28.300 --> 00:08:33.500 available also on Amazon so you can even get Kindle versions of this. 114 00:08:33.500 --> 00:08:39.900 Which typically are the most accessible sometimes, you know, the the 115 00:08:39.900 --> 00:08:44.800 slow mail system could be a little bit difficult between countries, 116 00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:49.000 but, you know kudos for this series 117 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:53.600 should really go in many ways to the editor of all the volumes and that's 118 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:54.100 Hector 119 00:08:54.100 --> 00:08:54.700 Hoppe. 120 00:08:54.700 --> 00:08:55.600 Doctor Hector Hoppe. 121 00:08:56.300 --> 00:08:59.600 When we actually gave an honorary doctorate some years ago. 122 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.600 He was our commencement speaker. He was our commencement speaker. 123 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:04.100 He did a wonderful job. 124 00:09:04.100 --> 00:09:12.900 And yeah, he he was the motor behind Concordia Concordia publishing 125 00:09:12.900 --> 00:09:15.800 Houses landmark series 126 00:09:15.800 --> 00:09:21.300 I will call it because it really gives a voice to Global South 127 00:09:21.300 --> 00:09:21.800 Lutheranism. 128 00:09:21.800 --> 00:09:25.700 you know. Okay, would you talk about the the state of Christianity and 129 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:29.000 Lutheranism in the global South especially Latin America? 130 00:09:30.100 --> 00:09:33.900 Well, I mean if you look at Latin America you have in Brazil for 131 00:09:33.900 --> 00:09:39.800 instance the largest Lutheran University in the world, you know, so it 132 00:09:39.800 --> 00:09:42.400 makes you think you know, maybe we should be hearing from 133 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:46.400 Latin Americans, you know speak about Lutheranism. 134 00:09:46.400 --> 00:09:51.900 And so that's something about you know, the movement of Christianity 135 00:09:51.900 --> 00:09:58.300 right is becoming increasingly a larger presence in the global South. 136 00:09:58.300 --> 00:10:02.400 Africa has some of the largest Lutheran Church bodies now. 137 00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:10.600 So and then of course, you have a growing Hispanic Latino presence in 138 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:15.200 the United States and with the growth of Global South Christianity 139 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.900 you also have an increasing number of the theologians 140 00:10:18.900 --> 00:10:23.200 You see being a formed from those communities. 141 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:29.300 So people like myself, you know end up in the Concordia University system, 142 00:10:29.300 --> 00:10:33.900 and I came to Concordia Seminary to do my graduate 143 00:10:33.900 --> 00:10:34.800 work here in St. 144 00:10:34.800 --> 00:10:34.900 Louis. 145 00:10:34.900 --> 00:10:41.100 And so all of a sudden we have the tools of that Lutheran formation 146 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:43.500 and we begin to apply them 147 00:10:44.400 --> 00:10:48.100 to a large numbers of neighbors 148 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:53.700 who come from a parts were of the world that we don't usually 149 00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:57.600 associate position with Lutheranism. And the world is changing in the 150 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:57.800 and 151 00:10:57.800 --> 00:11:02.300 I mean, we are all proud here thankful to God for the Center for 152 00:11:02.300 --> 00:11:03.100 Hispanic Studies. 153 00:11:03.100 --> 00:11:07.400 You mentioned Douglas Groll who began it in Chicago and then some 154 00:11:07.400 --> 00:11:07.800 years later 155 00:11:07.800 --> 00:11:12.300 it was moved to the campus the Center for Hispanic Studies you direct 156 00:11:12.300 --> 00:11:12.300 that. 157 00:11:12.300 --> 00:11:17.500 Would you tell us about the center? yes the center the heart of the mission of the 158 00:11:17.500 --> 00:11:18.700 center is to form 159 00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:25.700 Hispanic and pastors and deaconess in the name of the Lutheran Church to 160 00:11:25.700 --> 00:11:31.900 serve Hispanic communities in the United States. It's a Spanish language 161 00:11:31.900 --> 00:11:32.500 program. 162 00:11:33.400 --> 00:11:39.300 And most people to certification for Ministry, but also it has now at 163 00:11:39.300 --> 00:11:40.700 a graduate school component. 164 00:11:40.700 --> 00:11:44.900 So if you meet requirements, you can also get a Master of Arts. So 165 00:11:44.900 --> 00:11:50.100 let's unpack that make sure we all understand these exciting things that 166 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:52.400 are happening, have been happening at the Seminary. 167 00:11:52.400 --> 00:11:58.700 First of all, you said it's conducted in Spanish. Right. And it 168 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:06.500 trains up leaders for the Hispanic communities. Right. Faith leaders. 169 00:12:06.500 --> 00:12:10.500 Some some remain lay but others become pastors and deaconesses. 170 00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:11.800 Yeah. 171 00:12:11.800 --> 00:12:19.000 I mean, we do have programs that involve lay people taking Theology 172 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:23.700 and so on but eventually there are some who are identified right who 173 00:12:23.700 --> 00:12:27.700 could become pastors on deaconesses and we the strength of our 174 00:12:27.700 --> 00:12:31.700 program is to provide formation for them. And when 175 00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:33.000 they go through the required courses 176 00:12:34.900 --> 00:12:40.300 and these required courses distance learning. Right. Talk about how that 177 00:12:40.300 --> 00:12:40.700 happens? 178 00:12:40.700 --> 00:12:49.700 We've been doing distance education for a long time in the Spanish language. A lot of people and now with 179 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:53.600 the crisis our current crisis that we have your trying to wrap 180 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:56.000 their heads around online education. 181 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:03.200 We've been doing it for years. And I got to tell the audience the Seminary didn't miss a beat because you and 182 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:05.900 in other parts of the Seminary have been doing it for a long time. 183 00:13:05.900 --> 00:13:12.200 And to think that we have been doing this for years and also in Spanish is really quite something. 184 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:16.000 I always tell people one of my Joys working at Concordia Seminary is 185 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:23.300 I get to do it in two languages and but then you know that we thought 186 00:13:23.300 --> 00:13:27.600 that it was necessary to continue to take people along a growth path 187 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:28.700 towards leadership. 188 00:13:29.300 --> 00:13:34.400 And so with the grad school, we also not have an MA growth path and 189 00:13:34.400 --> 00:13:37.800 that's been a wonderful because he has allowed us also to bring in 190 00:13:38.800 --> 00:13:43.400 pastors in Latin America who already have a pastoral formation of some 191 00:13:43.400 --> 00:13:48.100 sort but want to continue their studies towards that graduate school 192 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:48.300 work. 193 00:13:48.300 --> 00:13:53.200 And this means then that you can get a Master of Arts degree in 194 00:13:53.200 --> 00:14:00.000 Religion in Spanish from this old German Concordia Seminary in St. 195 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:00.200 Louis. 196 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:09.100 We're one of the few places probably one of just two that offer something 197 00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:09.500 like this. 198 00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:13.300 So it's really quite quite something and so we're forming people who 199 00:14:13.300 --> 00:14:14.500 could then write the other books. 200 00:14:14.500 --> 00:14:15.300 Yeah. 201 00:14:15.300 --> 00:14:20.700 Well. They come after it. The center has been instrumental in this series because I 202 00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:23.700 8 out of the 10 books would not have been possible 203 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:29.000 I think without the engagement of Center faculty, guest instructors 204 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.700 adjuncts and so on. Who have contributed to the series. 205 00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:37.700 So by having a center which really is a community of 206 00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:44.400 pastors and teachers and scholars interacting, you know, with 207 00:14:44.400 --> 00:14:46.600 students, teaching thinking about this topics. 208 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:51.800 We would have had the manpower for a series like this. 209 00:14:51.800 --> 00:14:56.600 Tell us about the three books? Just summarize what the three are about. 210 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:08.000 So the series as a whole has 10 books but I have written three of the 10. So the first one I wrote was this one here Pneumatologia 211 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.600 and that this was on the Holy Spirit. 212 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.000 That was my first one, 213 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:17.500 I was still a student here when I was writing this one. Pneuma is the 214 00:15:17.500 --> 00:15:22.900 Greek word for spirit and it logia theologiae of his theology Theology 215 00:15:22.900 --> 00:15:27.700 of the Holy Spirit. Correct. And you can see the red for the fire of 216 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:28.400 the spirit. 217 00:15:30.100 --> 00:15:34.300 So that was that that's on the Holy Spirit and then that one came out 218 00:15:34.300 --> 00:15:39.600 pretty early in the series 2005. 2013 about 7-8 years later 219 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.700 Theology of Sanctification, Teologia De La Sanctification. 220 00:15:44.900 --> 00:15:46.900 This is on the Christian life. 221 00:15:46.900 --> 00:15:52.300 So life in the spirit, it's almost like the second part, you know of the the first 222 00:15:52.300 --> 00:15:57.300 one. And then the last one that I wrote a 2020 so just came out April 223 00:15:57.300 --> 00:16:03.800 Escatologia and that's on Christian Hope and it's interesting you have the green 224 00:16:03.800 --> 00:16:07.800 of growth in the Christian Life and then the blue of you know of the 225 00:16:07.800 --> 00:16:08.200 heavenly 226 00:16:09.500 --> 00:16:14.800 hope that we have in Christ. And these are not the only books you've 227 00:16:14.800 --> 00:16:15.100 written. 228 00:16:15.100 --> 00:16:18.600 You've written up a book that's received great 229 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:26.500 praise Sculptor Spirit, a little summary of that? On sanctification as well and 230 00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:29.800 what it does is it describes what the Christian life looks like and it 231 00:16:29.800 --> 00:16:35.400 gives five different models of of life in the spirit. Because you know, I 232 00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:37.200 have to kind of keep up with my English. 233 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.100 I got to practice my English a little bit 234 00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:41.000 so that's why I write books in English. 235 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:50.100 We're going to take a deeper dive into this book eschatology after we 236 00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:55.200 take a short break, but please stay with us Doctor Sanchez and I are 237 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.900 glad to be with you at this time. 238 00:16:59.300 --> 00:17:01.000 Concordia Seminary St. 239 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:05.700 Louis provides continuing education resources for pastors and lay 240 00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:10.800 people. To discover all the Concordia Seminary has for you visit us on 241 00:17:10.800 --> 00:17:13.400 the web at CSL. 242 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:14.090 EDU. 243 00:17:16.900 --> 00:17:22.700 Welcome back to Word and Work an Intersection I'm Dale Mayer today our 244 00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:23.300 guest is Dr. 245 00:17:23.300 --> 00:17:24.090 Leopoldo Sanchez. 246 00:17:24.090 --> 00:17:25.400 Dr. 247 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:28.090 Sanchez is a professor of systematic theology 248 00:17:28.090 --> 00:17:32.200 and also the Director of the Center for Hispanic Studies here 249 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:33.300 Concordia Seminary. 250 00:17:33.300 --> 00:17:38.600 We've been talking with Leo about his book series Concordia publishing 251 00:17:38.600 --> 00:17:45.400 House's Spanish-language, Concordia Theological Library series. The third 252 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:49.300 and final book is his new book on Christian Eschatology 253 00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:59.600 focusing on hope. Let's talk about this latest book and we hit early in 254 00:17:59.600 --> 00:18:02.000 the program on what this strange word 255 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.700 Eschatology means but start to talk more about that. 256 00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:11.500 Yeah, so eschatologia from eschotos that which is last or 257 00:18:11.500 --> 00:18:18.400 final and logia, you know the words the words of God about the final 258 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:18.800 things. 259 00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:25.800 So so the book deals with our hope in that which is to come and we 260 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:29.200 confess that, you know will confess the resurrection of the Dead which 261 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:34.200 is to come, we we look forward to Christ coming. 262 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.800 Again, you know to gather his church from all nations, you know, 263 00:18:38.800 --> 00:18:43.500 so so in the Christian mind is always hope in the last things, you know, 264 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:49.300 when God will fulfill his purposes for creation and yet last 265 00:18:49.300 --> 00:18:53.600 things we also think of last things in terms of promises. 266 00:18:53.600 --> 00:18:59.800 And so God has given us his promises about his purposes for the world 267 00:18:59.800 --> 00:19:04.900 and we get to enjoy some of that already now. In the first 268 00:19:04.900 --> 00:19:11.300 segment when we teased this discussion you talked about now, so yeah 269 00:19:11.300 --> 00:19:12.400 talk more about that. 270 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:16.700 If you would that it's not just far off in whenever the Lord chooses 271 00:19:16.700 --> 00:19:20.000 to come back but there's impact for his us now. Right. 272 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.300 So one example of this would be and look at the Gospel of John, 273 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:27.500 He who believes in the Son has eternal life. 274 00:19:28.900 --> 00:19:35.100 And that means now you know, so now we have because of Christ and his 275 00:19:35.100 --> 00:19:40.800 Word of promise eternal life and yet the text also says and I shall 276 00:19:40.800 --> 00:19:42.100 raise him at the last day. 277 00:19:43.100 --> 00:19:48.200 So even though now we have the promise of eternal life and because 278 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:49.400 of our faith in Christ 279 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:53.600 we have that that promise has yet to be fulfilled in the future 280 00:19:53.600 --> 00:19:56.600 you know, when we shall be raised on the eternal life. 281 00:19:56.600 --> 00:20:04.500 So it will include also the bodily Resurrection. So theologians usually talk about the not yet or the future dimension of 282 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:09.500 eschatology or Christian hope and the already now where we get to 283 00:20:09.500 --> 00:20:15.200 buy God's promises enjoy those blessings. In 1st Peter chapter 1 verse 284 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:17.200 13, "Set 285 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:22.600 your Hope on the grace that is to be revealed to you in Jesus Christ", 286 00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:26.600 and he's talking about the future the eschatology but already now we 287 00:20:26.600 --> 00:20:31.000 set our Hope on what is to come now and end and not yet. 288 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:31.900 Right, right. 289 00:20:31.900 --> 00:20:33.000 I understand that 290 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:39.500 your book is filling a gap that is needed needs to be filling a gap 291 00:20:39.500 --> 00:20:41.400 a gap that needs to be filled. Excuse me. 292 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:47.600 Would you tell us about that? Well part of it is because this is the first book that 293 00:20:47.600 --> 00:20:55.400 I know of at least recently where we have an original Spanish work or 294 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:59.700 work in the Spanish language addressing theologically the issue of 295 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:09.900 Hope and so that's part of it and also it fills a gap because it deals 296 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:15.000 with issues raised by voices that we're not often familiar with. So 297 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:20.100 voices of theologians who speak, you know, whether he's from Spain or 298 00:21:20.100 --> 00:21:24.800 Argentina or Chile or US Hispanic world the theologians from the 299 00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:27.600 Hispanic World broadly speaking. 300 00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:32.000 I understand that you have four theologians with whom you dialogue in 301 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.000 this book. Is that what you're talkin about, now. 302 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.600 Tell us about those four? 303 00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:51.000 One by the name of Tamile Acosta, and he talks about hope as something we are kinda of hardwired for 304 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.300 you-know-what in the sense of every human being hopes for something. 305 00:21:54.300 --> 00:21:57.900 So the question of where do you put your hope 306 00:21:57.900 --> 00:21:59.100 is an important one. 307 00:21:59.100 --> 00:22:04.200 You know,do I put my hope in some kind of Flight of the spirit 308 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:04.900 from this world? 309 00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:07.900 You know, where do I put my hope in 310 00:22:07.900 --> 00:22:09.600 some may be political movement? 311 00:22:09.600 --> 00:22:14.000 You know, what do I put my hope in and so he erases that questions. All 312 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:18.200 humans, but they're hoping something and I think that's that's an 313 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:23.100 important way of thinking about eschatology. 314 00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:28.000 So then the question is then who do we put our hope in, right, 315 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:33.800 and so he brings Christ into the picture. Another one is De la Torre 316 00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:38.200 he is Cuban American Hispanic ethicist. 317 00:22:38.900 --> 00:22:45.300 He critiques ideas of hope that are only future but have 318 00:22:45.300 --> 00:22:48.400 nothing to say about the present, right. 319 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.200 So what he says is what does Hope have to do with Lament. 320 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:57.000 A grieving over death, you know, what does Hope have to do with walking 321 00:22:57.000 --> 00:22:58.100 along with suffering people? 322 00:22:58.100 --> 00:23:04.900 So that future doesn't become an excuse not to deal with the suffering 323 00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:10.100 of people now. So that's a no the important issue that Christian 324 00:23:10.100 --> 00:23:10.500 Hope raises. 325 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:16.000 What do we have to say about Hope in the here and now as well. And you 326 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.000 know as we go through crisis mode you think about things like that, 327 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.300 you know. Have we given ourselves time to lament what we're going 328 00:23:24.300 --> 00:23:24.400 through. 329 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:30.200 How do we walk along with people who are suffering because of crisis? 330 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:34.400 And for a Lutheran, we think of Theology of the Cross. Absolutely. 331 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:41.100 Absolutely. So having that dialogue with this voice from the Hispanic world allows me then 332 00:23:41.800 --> 00:23:45.600 to talk about things like a Theology of the Cross from a Lutheran 333 00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:53.200 angle. There others there's Bentoua, last name Bentoua, from Chile. 334 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.500 So he talks more about narrative. 335 00:23:56.500 --> 00:24:00.200 You know, what is what is unique about the Christian narrative that 336 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:03.800 gives us hope. So he raises a question of the word of God. 337 00:24:03.800 --> 00:24:09.000 What do we have to say in terms of God's promises and so on and then 338 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.800 the other one is last name of Roldan from Argentina. 339 00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:14.500 He talks about kingdom of God stuff. 340 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:18.500 So, why does Hope have to do with the kingdom of God. So Kingdom 341 00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:19.800 meaning that got rules 342 00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:24.700 among us by his Spirit through his word. 343 00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:28.300 So that gives me then and I'll pretend it talk about you know, Luther 344 00:24:28.300 --> 00:24:31.500 for instance when he says when we pray thy Kingdom Come. 345 00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:32.600 What are we asking for? 346 00:24:32.600 --> 00:24:38.700 Right. That God will establish his rule among us through his word and 347 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:44.500 spirit, you know, and so what does that have to do with again the word 348 00:24:44.500 --> 00:24:50.000 of God, but also he says how we live our lives, you know, in piety here 349 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.100 and there after. So it sounds like you dialogue with these four 350 00:24:55.100 --> 00:25:00.800 theologians in in your book in a positive way lifting up their 351 00:25:00.800 --> 00:25:02.800 emphases and then 352 00:25:03.700 --> 00:25:06.400 filling in what Lutheranism beliefs. 353 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:12.700 We know we might not agree with everything they say they do come from 354 00:25:12.700 --> 00:25:17.700 different theological backgrounds. But they raise issues that we can 355 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:22.100 interact with and then we can provide our own Lutheran response to 356 00:25:22.100 --> 00:25:22.300 them. 357 00:25:22.300 --> 00:25:25.900 So the last two chapters of the book of the third part of the book 358 00:25:25.900 --> 00:25:28.800 really deals with that engagement. Tells us about the three parts of the book? 359 00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:38.100 The first one is an introduction eschatology and you know, it talks about some of the things we 360 00:25:38.100 --> 00:25:42.200 were discussing earlier eschatology has to do with the future but he 361 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:49.200 also has to do with the present enjoyment of Blessings in Christ. 362 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.400 So that one deals with that in there a couple of chapters dealing with 363 00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:56.500 that and I will describe are those chapters basically as 364 00:25:57.500 --> 00:26:04.500 laying out the thesis of the book. Which is that we don't look up for 365 00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.900 hope and we don't look down for hope we look not to you know, 366 00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:12.100 something up there or something down here. 367 00:26:12.100 --> 00:26:13.800 We look through Christ for our hope. 368 00:26:13.800 --> 00:26:15.800 So hope is in a person. 369 00:26:16.800 --> 00:26:23.700 You know and hope is in a relationship with that person and in God's 370 00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:25.600 purpose is being fulfilled in Christ. 371 00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:30.100 All of God's promises are yea and amen in Christ. 372 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:35.200 And so that's kind of what I teach there, you know where hope can 373 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:38.700 become a very abstract thing if you just looking for some kind of 374 00:26:39.800 --> 00:26:42.200 perfect state of affairs here or something 375 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.000 perfect up there. 376 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.700 My question is did Jesus show up that day. 377 00:26:46.700 --> 00:26:54.900 So I really emphasis that. Is hope a person in a relationship with that person and 378 00:26:54.900 --> 00:26:58.600 now we can talk about other things but that has to be right in there. 379 00:26:58.600 --> 00:27:03.000 And that's the first part then the second part is is kind of a how do 380 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.600 you frame a discussion in hope? 381 00:27:06.600 --> 00:27:13.200 What are the two ways of presenting our teaching on Christian hope and one 382 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:15.000 chapter has the weather Trinitarian way. 383 00:27:16.800 --> 00:27:20.900 Thinking about the narrative of Christian hope and the other one is 384 00:27:20.900 --> 00:27:22.200 more catechetical way. 385 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.800 Which deals with hope as Redemption from sin., 386 00:27:26.900 --> 00:27:29.400 evil or Satan and death. 387 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.900 And then the third part I engage the voices from the Hispanic world. 388 00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:36.600 So that's a little bit of the three parts. 389 00:27:36.600 --> 00:27:42.600 Let me ask you a question about about the book and give you an 390 00:27:42.600 --> 00:27:44.000 opportunity to get yourself in trouble. 391 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:51.900 When I grew up, starting to be a long time ago 1950s, but I heard a lot 392 00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:52.500 about faith. 393 00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:55.500 We have St. Paul talks about faith, hope and love and its not 394 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:59.000 just St. Paul but he specially articulates that, And I know 1st Peter 395 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.700 which I know well has faith, hope and love as well. 396 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:07.200 But but we heard about faith because Lutherans are 397 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:12.200 scholarly students of of the scripture and of the correct 398 00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:17.900 teaching of the Bible. And so faith was always lifted up in my childhood 399 00:28:17.900 --> 00:28:23.000 but I never heard much about hope and love. And it seems to me that we 400 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:29.500 are in a time when yes the faith has to be taught correctly. The hymn 401 00:28:29.500 --> 00:28:35.000 says Let no false Doctrine me beguile but raising up hope not only in the 402 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.500 coronavirus time but but in America today with with with so much that 403 00:28:39.500 --> 00:28:46.000 goes on is just as necessary as faith and certainly love. 404 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:50.400 Could you could you talk about that? We have we would have shifted from 405 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:56.200 an Enlightenment understanding of let's get the doctrine correct and 406 00:28:56.200 --> 00:29:09.300 believe it but also to the experience of hope. Yeah, you know one way I like to think about that is rather then thinking about hope in distinction from 407 00:29:09.300 --> 00:29:10.300 faith 408 00:29:10.300 --> 00:29:16.300 and love what if we Infuse faith and love with hope that's another way 409 00:29:16.300 --> 00:29:21.100 of thinking about it, you know, so that faith is in some sense 410 00:29:21.100 --> 00:29:21.700 hopeful. 411 00:29:22.600 --> 00:29:26.600 Because it holds onto God's promises. 412 00:29:27.800 --> 00:29:30.700 When everything seems hopeless. 413 00:29:31.800 --> 00:29:36.300 You know so so so there is such a thing as hopeful faith 414 00:29:36.300 --> 00:29:43.500 you might say. Faith infused with hope that even in a tough 415 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:47.200 situation a situation of suffering that we can that faith can still be 416 00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:51.200 bold. Which is another way of saying hopeful. This is interesting 417 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:55.400 because on first Peter again doesn't talk about faith that 418 00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:55.800 much. 419 00:29:55.800 --> 00:30:01.500 I mean not per se but he talks a lot about Hope and it seemed so he is 420 00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:05.000 infusing Faith which is obviously throughout 1st Peter, but he's 421 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:08.700 infusing it with hope I appreciate that. Or love it the same thing. Yes. 422 00:30:08.800 --> 00:30:14.200 How do we have a fuse love with hope so that is a hopeful love, right. 423 00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:18.500 Because you see again a lot of the humanizing situations going on. 424 00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:23.800 In life right people's relationships broken as you see all of that 425 00:30:23.800 --> 00:30:24.000 stuff. 426 00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:29.700 So then how does Hope in a sense bring hope to the situation? 427 00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:36.300 So there is there's a sense in which love that love I even when 428 00:30:36.300 --> 00:30:38.000 everything seems to be going against love. 429 00:30:39.100 --> 00:30:43.200 Is a bold Love is a hopeful love. So I think that's one way I like 430 00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:44.000 to think about that. 431 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:44.500 Thank you. 432 00:30:44.500 --> 00:30:45.800 You have a unique perspective. 433 00:30:45.800 --> 00:30:52.700 I mean from your history and as as as a scholar and a theologian. Look 434 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:59.500 at North America today, you know, what you written for Latin America 435 00:30:59.500 --> 00:31:04.600 the Iberian Peninsula Spain and so on what do you see in North America 436 00:31:04.600 --> 00:31:07.100 culture today that can benefit from what you've written? 437 00:31:07.100 --> 00:31:12.500 Well, I mean one of the things that eschatology in the 438 00:31:12.500 --> 00:31:21.200 Spanish-speaking world brings up quite a bit is how does Christian 439 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.400 hope relate to present day suffering? 440 00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:29.300 Because you know, you've had a lot of situations of oppression and 441 00:31:29.300 --> 00:31:35.800 large inequalities and things like that in the majority world. 442 00:31:35.800 --> 00:31:40.400 And so, you know, what does Christian hope have to say about the present? 443 00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:40.700 Right? 444 00:31:40.700 --> 00:31:48.100 And I think in North American culture, sometimes I think people don't 445 00:31:48.100 --> 00:31:52.700 want to give themselves time to grieve, you know, there's such a high 446 00:31:52.700 --> 00:31:57.000 hope in us fixing all of our problems in the here 447 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:02.000 and now. That we don't have time to even think about suffering, you 448 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:05.500 know, we have a very optimistic view of life and I think in Latin 449 00:32:05.500 --> 00:32:10.600 America and you have to deal with a more realistic view of life, and 450 00:32:10.600 --> 00:32:14.200 what does God have to say about that. Is where Liberation theology 451 00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:14.700 came from? 452 00:32:15.020 --> 00:32:22.440 Liberation theology really arises out of a Roman Catholic way of trying to deal with situations of oppression and suffering 453 00:32:24.700 --> 00:32:27.700 In Latin America, you know, what does the all you have to say about 454 00:32:27.700 --> 00:32:28.000 that? 455 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:32.000 So you're right in the sense that Liberation theology raises the question 456 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.900 of you know, what does Hope have to do with present suffering as 457 00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:41.600 opposed to what does Hope have to do with the end of suffering in the 458 00:32:41.600 --> 00:32:42.200 future. 459 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:49.700 So you have to kinda of engage Liberation theology at some point. In treatise on 460 00:32:49.700 --> 00:32:53.300 eschatology, but more broadly. 461 00:32:53.300 --> 00:32:57.000 I think you have to deal with the issue of source of suffering and 462 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.800 what what do Lutherans have to say about that today. 463 00:32:59.800 --> 00:33:01.800 I think that another area would be 464 00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:10.000 you have a lot of this sort of a spiritualizing view of hope, you know 465 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.000 where hope is not being in the body. 466 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.900 Hope it's about you know, leaving this world. 467 00:33:15.900 --> 00:33:18.500 This world is good for nothing. 468 00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:22.700 You know, it's an so it's better to just escape it somehow. 469 00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:27.100 So you have this homespun spirituality, you know. And in the Latin 470 00:33:27.100 --> 00:33:35.700 American World this, you know this awareness that the spiritual world 471 00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:39.500 that we deal with is has to do with also our present day world. We 472 00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:40.600 don't have to leave this world. 473 00:33:40.600 --> 00:33:44.800 We deal with spiritual things in the world and that's important. 474 00:33:44.800 --> 00:33:45.200 Right. 475 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:48.300 So spirit is not kind of above the world you have to deal with the 476 00:33:48.300 --> 00:33:51.000 spiritual here and now . So you 477 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:55.300 you were saying before I brought up Liberation theology you were saying that 478 00:33:55.300 --> 00:33:59.200 grieving is important and and we see that in our desire to get 479 00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:03.200 out of the coronavirus epidemic. Right. You know, we just want to get this 480 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:05.900 behind us and not process what's happening. 481 00:34:05.900 --> 00:34:09.900 I'm guessing that this would be a great book for teaching and 482 00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:10.190 learning. 483 00:34:10.190 --> 00:34:17.100 At a congregational level obviously the Seminary level can you wrap us up with 484 00:34:17.100 --> 00:34:18.690 with that? 485 00:34:18.690 --> 00:34:23.300 Well, one of the nice things about the series is that every 486 00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:27.600 chapter has questions at the end that help people process what they 487 00:34:27.600 --> 00:34:32.600 have read and also there is a glossary of terms at the end of the book to 488 00:34:32.600 --> 00:34:36.190 you know, where all terms are they defined so escatologia is in there 489 00:34:36.190 --> 00:34:41.190 too. Teología de la liberación. 490 00:34:41.190 --> 00:34:45.300 What does that mean in Spanish. That's all in Spanish. How to respond to that? 491 00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:51.900 So there are tools to help communicate this in a way, you know that 492 00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:59.000 could benefit people. And this can be used not only in the Seminary but in the congregation Bible study settings right 493 00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.100 here in the United States. 494 00:35:01.100 --> 00:35:01.500 Yeah. 495 00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:06.900 The reason why we wrote the books is because we needed material 496 00:35:06.900 --> 00:35:09.100 so that we could teach these things in Spanish. 497 00:35:09.100 --> 00:35:09.800 So, you know, 498 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:12.400 Thank you. 499 00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:13.400 Doctor Sanchez, 500 00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:17.500 I've enjoyed our conversation and I said he's a great colleague here 501 00:35:17.500 --> 00:35:21.200 on the faculty of Concordia Seminary and we always enjoy the 502 00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:22.500 conversation and the repartee. 503 00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:25.400 I also think you our audience for being with us. 504 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:31.000 I'm Dale Mayer and as always may the intersection of Word and Work be 505 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:32.500 busy on your corner.