WEBVTT

1
00:00:23.300 --> 00:00:27.000
Hello and welcome to Word and Work an Intersection.

2
00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:31.300
I'm your host Dale Meyer joining us as Dr. Abjar Bahkou.

3
00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:36.300
He is associate professor of Practical Theology here at Concordia

4
00:00:36.300 --> 00:00:37.100
Seminary St.

5
00:00:37.100 --> 00:00:42.300
Louis. His research and specialty is Christian Muslim relationships.

6
00:00:42.300 --> 00:00:44.400
Welcome a Abjar,

7
00:00:44.400 --> 00:00:45.700
thank you for being with us.

8
00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:48.100
Let's talk about your life

9
00:00:48.100 --> 00:00:48.800
first of all.

10
00:00:49.900 --> 00:00:56.000
As you know, Concordia Seminary has a great German Heritage.

11
00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.200
So where in Germany did your family come from?

12
00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.500
Well as if you will notice from my accent

13
00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:10.500
it's not a German accent or a Texan accent.

14
00:01:10.500 --> 00:01:16.100
I was not born as a white German Lutheran.

15
00:01:16.100 --> 00:01:25.900
I was born in Syria in a small town called Al-Malikiyah was also it's

16
00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:31.500
called Dayrik, which is a small town at the border with Turkey and

17
00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:31.800
Iraq.

18
00:01:31.800 --> 00:01:35.800
So like 10 miles from Turkey 20 miles from Iraq.

19
00:01:36.600 --> 00:01:38.800
And that's where I was born.

20
00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:48.200
But at the age of 14 I moved to Damascus to enroll in the like a boarding

21
00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:55.700
school to prepare men for to become pastors in the Syrian Orthodox

22
00:01:55.700 --> 00:01:56.400
church.

23
00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.500
So I am always askd when they're here

24
00:02:00.500 --> 00:02:01.200
I'm from Syria

25
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:02.600
where you Muslim before?

26
00:02:02.600 --> 00:02:02.900
I said,

27
00:02:02.900 --> 00:02:03.000
No.

28
00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:08.000
I was Christian, but I come from Orthodox background.

29
00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:15.000
So at the age of 14, I moved to Damascus to enroll at St.

30
00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.700
Ephrem Theological Seminary, which is the Seminary of the Syrian

31
00:02:19.700 --> 00:02:20.500
Orthodox Church.

32
00:02:20.500 --> 00:02:22.000
They train

33
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:27.300
you know Pastor just like Concordia Seminary.

34
00:02:28.700 --> 00:02:35.600
And the seminary was across the street from the Straight street. Straight Street. The church of Ananias.

35
00:02:35.600 --> 00:02:47.600
We read in the book of Acts the Lord told Paul to go to the Straight street and inquire about Ananias.

36
00:02:47.600 --> 00:02:52.900
Is that the true Straight Street do you think would least likely

37
00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:53.700
that's what it is.

38
00:02:53.700 --> 00:02:54.000
Yeah.

39
00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.700
I mean we would go to the church is called the Church of Ananias.

40
00:02:57.700 --> 00:03:05.900
So so the tradition is probably true that is Straight Street. Yeah, so that's where I grew up in that

41
00:03:05.900 --> 00:03:12.900
environment a cross street from the Straight street where Paul was

42
00:03:12.900 --> 00:03:14.300
baptized.

43
00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:22.700
And I know you studied there until I finished high school and

44
00:03:22.700 --> 00:03:28.800
undergraduate. I assume that Syria was peaceful at that time. Oh yeah.

45
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.700
This was way before the Civil War. The Civil War started in 2011.

46
00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:46.100
Yeah, so I started until 91 where I was ordained.

47
00:03:46.100 --> 00:03:52.300
Also Deacon and took my monastic vows in the city hall to the church.

48
00:03:52.300 --> 00:03:58.800
And after that I was sent to Rome through a collaboration between the

49
00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:01.200
Vatican and the various Orthodox Churches.

50
00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:05.400
This is a program that the Vatican started after the second Vatican

51
00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:10.100
which opens up to difference non-Catholic denomination.

52
00:04:10.100 --> 00:04:15.000
And so they would offer us Scholars full scholarship to go on study

53
00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.899
there at The Pontifical Institute in Rome.

54
00:04:17.899 --> 00:04:24.800
And that's what I started my first Graduate Studies and Salesian

55
00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:32.900
Pontifical Institute and I began doing a BA in education and then

56
00:04:32.900 --> 00:04:38.400
Masters and PhD in Christian education and youth ministry.

57
00:04:38.400 --> 00:04:51.400
At the Pontifical Biblical Institute? No, the Salesian Pontifical Institute. The Salesian is the religious order. One of the largest religious order in the

58
00:04:51.400 --> 00:04:56.800
Catholic church, and they were specially with the use and the

59
00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.100
marginalized excetera.

60
00:05:00.100 --> 00:05:06.300
So they have a major university in Rome and part of the program was

61
00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:11.500
you have to live with a Catholic religious order your cannot

62
00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:13.300
just stay outside.

63
00:05:13.300 --> 00:05:18.600
So part of the this program is to live with them and interact with

64
00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:19.800
them learn from them.

65
00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:21.400
And so that's what I did.

66
00:05:21.400 --> 00:05:25.900
I live for almost six years with the Salesian order

67
00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:31.800
and studied at the universities is also. So here Concordia Seminary we

68
00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:37.900
talk to about formation, but you really experienced formation by

69
00:05:37.900 --> 00:05:46.500
living working and studying at the Salesian Institute. Part of this scholarship and

70
00:05:46.500 --> 00:05:53.400
collaboration was you have to live with a certain Catholic religious

71
00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:59.600
order or Institute to learn from them interact with them and also they

72
00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:03.500
they they know you as a non-catholic. How did that change you?

73
00:06:04.300 --> 00:06:11.400
They changed me a lot because it opens me to do the global context.

74
00:06:11.400 --> 00:06:18.400
You know, the Vatican is is is the center of the Catholic church and

75
00:06:18.400 --> 00:06:20.000
from all over the world

76
00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.900
you have people there.

77
00:06:21.900 --> 00:06:30.500
So like at the Salesian University as a pontifical we had students from 80

78
00:06:30.500 --> 00:06:39.400
different nationalities, not only secular student, priests and nuns and

79
00:06:39.400 --> 00:06:42.500
lay people from 80 different nationalities.

80
00:06:42.500 --> 00:06:51.000
And so you learn you learn learn theology and you learn formation in this global context.

81
00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:52.900
So you are global in formed

82
00:06:52.900 --> 00:06:55.100
not only locally in formed.

83
00:06:55.100 --> 00:07:00.300
So you learn what's going on and even even our teaching when you would

84
00:07:00.300 --> 00:07:03.000
take introduction to practical theology.

85
00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:04.200
They would give you

86
00:07:04.300 --> 00:07:12.100
global theology in a global context. And then learn how to apply the

87
00:07:12.100 --> 00:07:14.800
Practical theology in into your own context.

88
00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:20.300
Did you know much about the Lutheran Church at that time? I did not

89
00:07:20.300 --> 00:07:23.400
know anything about that. You found out about that when you came to the

90
00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:31.700
United States? Later yeah, I cam into the United States in 1999, September 1999

91
00:07:31.700 --> 00:07:37.100
I landed in LAX in Los Angeles and Southern California.

92
00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:45.300
And that was also the Syrian Orthodox Church sent me there to serve the

93
00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:49.800
immigrants of the Syrian community in Los Angeles area.

94
00:07:50.700 --> 00:07:54.800
That's where and then in 2005.

95
00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.000
In 2004 I move to Texas and in 2005

96
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:03.900
I started to hang around with a bunch of Lutherans.

97
00:08:03.900 --> 00:08:10.600
And that's that that's how. This is a man with two phds.

98
00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:14.900
he has a global consciousness, but you started to hang around with

99
00:08:14.900 --> 00:08:16.500
Lutherans to tell us about that?

100
00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:23.300
Yeah, I started to hang around with Lutherans and they wanted and I was at that time

101
00:08:23.300 --> 00:08:27.400
I was working on my second graduate study in Arabic and Islamic

102
00:08:27.400 --> 00:08:30.800
Studies Mission and evangelism Focus was of Arabic and Islamic

103
00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:41.299
Studies. And I met the the pastors of the Texas district who are

104
00:08:41.299 --> 00:08:44.800
working with Arabs in DFW area Dallas-Fort Worth area.

105
00:08:45.500 --> 00:08:52.300
An at that time many Iraqi moved to Dallas area and they wanted an

106
00:08:52.300 --> 00:08:54.400
arabic-speaking to translate for them.

107
00:08:55.300 --> 00:09:01.900
Lutheran teaching there was no Lutheran teaching, there was no teaching like Lutheran order of

108
00:09:01.900 --> 00:09:09.200
worship to worship reach out to Muslim and that's how I started my

109
00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:13.600
first contact with Lutheranism and the reformer. And at that time

110
00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.600
I'm also I was I got has blessed me with another scholarship from the

111
00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:24.700
Southwestern Baptist Seminary and and I study that got it started to

112
00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:27.600
study academically also the history of the reformers.

113
00:09:28.800 --> 00:09:33.300
And I studied also the life of Martin Luther because in the Middle

114
00:09:33.300 --> 00:09:36.400
East special Orthodox Church Eastern Church

115
00:09:36.400 --> 00:09:39.900
there is a stereotype about Lutheran and Lutheranism.

116
00:09:39.900 --> 00:09:48.000
What is the stereotype? The stereotype is Luther was a monk he broke his vows got married with a nun split

117
00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:48.500
the church

118
00:09:48.500 --> 00:09:50.800
these are cast out and they are outside.

119
00:09:50.800 --> 00:09:57.400
That's the stereotype so imagine when you have this stereotype any book any literature

120
00:09:57.400 --> 00:10:08.300
related to this, I don't want to the learn anything about this guy who is burning in Hell and split the church. And in Texas you start

121
00:10:08.300 --> 00:10:15.300
to hang out? And then I started to hang around and translate and read in the life of Martin

122
00:10:15.300 --> 00:10:21.500
Luther and I saw how connected it is to my own personal experience as

123
00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:22.500
a monk.

124
00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:27.500
And and and how the Lord is working in our life

125
00:10:27.500 --> 00:10:28.600
I'm also it was not an

126
00:10:28.700 --> 00:10:30.400
easy time in my life.

127
00:10:30.400 --> 00:10:37.600
The Lord was working deeply in my life while studying Luther and

128
00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:40.600
Lutheranism and I started to translate material.

129
00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:45.400
I started to it was like a kind of transformation

130
00:10:46.900 --> 00:10:52.500
in my heart and also in my in my mind about Luther and I saw that

131
00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:53.000
okay.

132
00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:54.800
No, he is not a bad guy.

133
00:10:54.800 --> 00:10:59.600
I know this isn't nice teaching and it has a lot of connection with

134
00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.200
the Eastern Church also where I grew up.

135
00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:11.400
So it was that transformation that help me study more in-depth and get

136
00:11:11.400 --> 00:11:18.200
more involved with the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and and this lasted

137
00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:25.400
for over 5 years and then I ended up getting married and leaving

138
00:11:25.400 --> 00:11:28.000
the monastic life just like Luther.

139
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:28.800
Exactly.

140
00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:32.400
And of course in the Syrian or in the Orthodox Church when you leave

141
00:11:32.400 --> 00:11:36.500
the church or when you get married or anything, that's what you

142
00:11:36.500 --> 00:11:36.600
are

143
00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:38.900
You are finished with the church.

144
00:11:38.900 --> 00:11:42.200
So there are certain rules and regulation.

145
00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:49.700
So I got married and I need continue to work reaching out to Muslims

146
00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:51.800
and Arabs in the DFW area.

147
00:11:52.900 --> 00:11:59.800
Partnering with other churches are in DFW area especialiy in Peace

148
00:11:59.800 --> 00:12:01.100
Lutheran Church in Hurst. Walt Wieser an old friend you know him.

149
00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:07.600
So through him

150
00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:08.000
also

151
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:17.200
we started this process of being colliqised as a LCMS pastor. For

152
00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:17.800
our audience.

153
00:12:17.800 --> 00:12:25.200
If if if if a person has become a pastor or priest or monk, you know,

154
00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.600
in another denomination and they decide they want to become

155
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:31.200
Lutheran

156
00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:36.000
they go through a process called colloquy. Which involves an interview

157
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:39.400
maybe some extra work or studying until

158
00:12:40.700 --> 00:12:44.300
colloquy board says, yes, this person is qualified to be a

159
00:12:44.300 --> 00:12:47.600
Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod pastor and that's where we first met

160
00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.000
because the seminary presidents sit on that board.

161
00:12:50.000 --> 00:13:05.800
Do you remember what year that was? In 2012. 2012 yeah. So Doctor Meyer was the one who certified me as LCMS so if anything happen blame him do blame me. I'm proud of it.

162
00:13:05.800 --> 00:13:13.500
Let's let's jump to the global view that you have courtesy of The

163
00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:22.200
Salesian Institute describe the need for Arabic Lutheran Arabic

164
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:22.700
curriculum.

165
00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.200
Yeah, since I started to work with the with our churches

166
00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:38.400
I saw the need of Arabic material that engage with Muslim and Arab

167
00:13:38.400 --> 00:13:43.100
Christian also different Arabic Christian denomination from a

168
00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:51.400
conservative Orthodox Lutheran perspectives., and there is no

169
00:13:51.400 --> 00:14:01.000
no material. Lutheran catechism was translated in 1988 and they work on

170
00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:07.200
a translation that was made in I think in the sixties and seventies so

171
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.700
they translated that document into Arabic.

172
00:14:10.900 --> 00:14:13.500
And there's nothing wrong with that material.

173
00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:17.800
But the only thing is we know very well through history

174
00:14:17.800 --> 00:14:23.200
that Luther wrote the small and large catechism for the German congregation

175
00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:28.400
were in need of an introductory to the Christian faith.

176
00:14:29.400 --> 00:14:36.900
Now for the Arab it is a different context the challenges to the Christian

177
00:14:36.900 --> 00:14:40.900
faith as a minority now in the Arab world Christian Christian are

178
00:14:40.900 --> 00:14:47.000
maybe 3% so we are always faced with the challenge of Islam who are

179
00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:55.200
challenging the core of our faith. So let me interrupt  make sure I am

180
00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.000
understanding this.As a pastor

181
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:03.100
I would find somebody who wanted to join our church and we would have

182
00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:05.800
them come and we study the small catechism.

183
00:15:05.800 --> 00:15:12.000
So the people who came had some knowledge of Christianity they were

184
00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:18.300
they were out of the American culture and and it made sense to them

185
00:15:18.300 --> 00:15:20.600
with some explanation made sense to them.

186
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:21.900
But what you're saying is

187
00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:28.800
this does not make sense immediately to Muslim.

188
00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:37.900
Exactly, that's what it is. There is nothing wrong with the catechism it's the context. Exactly, what we call it contextualization the

189
00:15:37.900 --> 00:15:42.600
way we contextualize we incarnate this document in certain

190
00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:46.100
culture the language used.

191
00:15:46.100 --> 00:15:51.000
Let me give you an example of the word law. The word law could be translated

192
00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:57.200
into two  three different word in Arabic. You mean low? Law, the law and Gospel.

193
00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:11.000
Law. See my accent. Law and Gospel. Law and Gospel.

194
00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:17.900
So when I work on when I when I wrote my own catechism, I was

195
00:16:17.900 --> 00:16:21.300
familiar with the quranic language and and the Arabic Christian

196
00:16:21.300 --> 00:16:21.600
language.

197
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:22.300
So I put

198
00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:32.900
a word that can click and can attract the Muslim and the Christian Arabic audience, which is sharia.

199
00:16:32.900 --> 00:16:37.300
And sharia it was introduced into the English vocabulary.

200
00:16:37.300 --> 00:16:38.400
What do we say?

201
00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:40.500
Sharia allah. Sharia is not an English word. Sharia means law.

202
00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:45.200
So so and so

203
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.700
that's one of the the point the way we turn and then the challenges

204
00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:55.800
like when we talk about Christ the Muslim always a challenge our

205
00:16:55.800 --> 00:16:57.400
Christian faith about what do we say?

206
00:16:57.400 --> 00:17:01.000
What do you mean by God died for us?

207
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:06.800
What do we mean by Jesus is the Son of God and then the Son of Man.

208
00:17:06.800 --> 00:17:08.200
So all this the

209
00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:14.900
Lutheran catechism or the Lutheran Church did not have to deal with them

210
00:17:14.900 --> 00:17:19.200
with these challenges in Germany and United States.

211
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.800
So what wrote is I explained

212
00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:28.099
all this all these terms in the Muslim in the Muslim vocabulary in

213
00:17:28.099 --> 00:17:31.000
Arabic Christian vocabulary that they can understand it.

214
00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:38.000
So so translating law Sharia, I mean to an American in an uninformed

215
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.300
American that meat that means oppressive.

216
00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:43.000
Exactly. Muslim law.

217
00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:52.000
So when you use that word, you have to what present Sharia the word in

218
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.200
a in a in a true Christian law Gospel sense. Exactly.

219
00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.400
Is that what you do in life with God?

220
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:00.700
It is yeah.

221
00:18:00.700 --> 00:18:01.700
That's what I did.

222
00:18:01.700 --> 00:18:04.800
Tell us about life with God?

223
00:18:04.800 --> 00:18:07.800
Which is this book here. Life with God.

224
00:18:07.800 --> 00:18:12.800
This is something that I worked over 10 years on it, and I'm still

225
00:18:12.800 --> 00:18:13.500
working on it.

226
00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:19.300
My plan is to continue to develop it in in a curriculum

227
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:24.900
for different ages also but that's a future project.

228
00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:40.300
You're like a monk your still working. So when I began in 2005 translate work translate Lutheran material into Arabic to Iraqi

229
00:18:40.300 --> 00:18:45.100
because we started the first arabic-speaking congregation Lutheran

230
00:18:45.100 --> 00:18:49.000
congregation in the state of Texas and we started this congregation by

231
00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:54.400
baptizing the first Muslim family from Iraq. Hasem  his wife and four

232
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:54.500
children.

233
00:18:54.500 --> 00:18:58.100
That's how we started doing Bible study at their house and then

234
00:18:58.100 --> 00:19:02.200
expanded to different Arabic group

235
00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:10.300
and and we planted it. Do Muslims turn to convert by family, or will it

236
00:19:10.300 --> 00:19:13.200
sometimes be just one individual and the family and then?

237
00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:18.900
Again, it depends from case to case. The case of the family

238
00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:19.700
we baptized

239
00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:26.500
Yes, he the whole family was and then other cases the wife or the

240
00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:32.000
husband and then and then the whole family joined again.

241
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.400
It depends from place to place where they are

242
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:40.400
are they still in and their oppressive context or they are outside of

243
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:45.100
the context usually conversion is much much easier when they are

244
00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:52.000
outside of the context. This is fascinating and I'm enjoying the conversation because the fact of the

245
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.600
matter is your family didn't come from Germany and in this day and age

246
00:19:56.600 --> 00:20:03.100
we are aware of the global mission that has been given to us and we're

247
00:20:03.100 --> 00:20:05.000
thrilled at Concordia Seminary to have Dr.

248
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.600
Bahkou with us.

249
00:20:06.600 --> 00:20:09.800
We're going to take a little break now, but then we'll come back and

250
00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:12.000
continue this interesting talk.

251
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:17.800
Make a difference in the world become a church worker or encourage

252
00:20:17.800 --> 00:20:22.300
someone you know who has the skills call Concordia Seminary admissions

253
00:20:22.300 --> 00:20:29.800
at 800-822-9545 or email admission at CSL.

254
00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:30.500
Edu.

255
00:20:30.500 --> 00:20:37.700
That's 800-822-9545 Concordia Seminary can make a difference in your

256
00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:38.300
world.

257
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:42.600
Welcome back to Word and Work an Intersection.

258
00:20:42.600 --> 00:20:46.300
I'm your host Dale Meyer today our guest is Dr.

259
00:20:46.300 --> 00:20:47.400
Abjar Bahkou.

260
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:52.200
He's associate professor of practical theology here at Concordia

261
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:53.100
Seminary St.

262
00:20:53.100 --> 00:20:53.600
Louis.

263
00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:55.800
We're enjoying this conversation.

264
00:20:55.800 --> 00:21:03.000
Abjar and then again, it's a joy and a vision expanding experience

265
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.600
for me to have have you as a colleague here at Concordia Seminary.

266
00:21:06.600 --> 00:21:10.100
We talked about sharing the gospel with Muslims.

267
00:21:10.100 --> 00:21:15.900
You talk about a Kerygmatic approach when you share with what you

268
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:16.200
mean by that?

269
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:17.300
Yeah.

270
00:21:17.300 --> 00:21:21.700
This is one of the courses I'm teaching here is called teaching the

271
00:21:21.700 --> 00:21:22.100
faith.

272
00:21:22.100 --> 00:21:25.900
So I I go over it with my students.

273
00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:28.300
Of course the

274
00:21:28.300 --> 00:21:31.800
Kerygmatic approach is not something that we invented that Kerygmatic

275
00:21:31.800 --> 00:21:37.300
approach is what the disciple used in the book of Acts. A Kerygmatic means

276
00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:45.900
the one who shared the good news so that she is sharing the good news

277
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:49.600
with our Muslim friends.

278
00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:51.900
Kayriso is is the Greek word

279
00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:58.700
that means I share I announce and that little ma ending kerma

280
00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:04.200
is what is announced.

281
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:04.800
Exactly. My little bit of Greek I don't know any Arabic.

282
00:22:04.800 --> 00:22:12.500
So it's it's it's the proclamation exactly and this is by the way, I

283
00:22:12.500 --> 00:22:18.800
am by God's grace by the end of this year a book will be published

284
00:22:18.800 --> 00:22:20.600
also in this topic.

285
00:22:20.600 --> 00:22:25.900
I entitled it the Gospel or the Quran in ally with the Gospel

286
00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:29.400
respectively Muslim Christian counselors

287
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:34.400
and I go through this kind of approach.

288
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:44.200
I always take the story of Jesus walk with the disciples of Emmaus in

289
00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.700
Luke 24:13 to 35.

290
00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:55.700
I said when we meet with Muslim we meet first as as a human being and

291
00:22:55.700 --> 00:23:00.700
then we meet as monotheistic believers just like Jesus was started to talk to

292
00:23:00.700 --> 00:23:04.800
them and then as a witnessing believers also. Okay, let's do those 3 again

293
00:23:04.800 --> 00:23:11.800
because I do believe that there are important for all witnessing but

294
00:23:11.800 --> 00:23:16.100
first we just meet as a person like you hung around with those Lutheran

295
00:23:16.100 --> 00:23:17.100
guys out in Texas.

296
00:23:17.100 --> 00:23:18.800
That's first article

297
00:23:18.800 --> 00:23:21.300
God made us all. Secondly

298
00:23:21.300 --> 00:23:26.100
would you talk a little bit about Muslims and Christians having a

299
00:23:26.100 --> 00:23:34.700
monotheistic belief? Yeah, so this is what differs us from a nonbeliever an atheist or anything. An atheist does not believe in God.

300
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:37.700
An agnostic he believes in something. But for Muslim

301
00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:41.800
we all believe in God creator of Heaven and Earth.

302
00:23:41.800 --> 00:23:47.800
But again as it is a radical differences between Christianity and

303
00:23:47.800 --> 00:23:52.800
Islam about how God relate to us and how we relate to God.

304
00:23:52.800 --> 00:24:00.800
So that's the radical differences for them. We have a starting point in our monotheism. Yeah, exactly we

305
00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:05.300
believe in God, but what kind of God that's a radical differences

306
00:24:05.300 --> 00:24:09.500
between God who came and and become one of us suffered on the cross and

307
00:24:09.500 --> 00:24:12.300
died for for them

308
00:24:12.300 --> 00:24:16.400
this is a big plus. Do they revere Abraham, Isaac and Jacob like we do? All this are recorded in the Koran.

309
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:28.100
Abraham, Moses, Jesus is mentioned in the Koran more than Muhammad 93 verses.

310
00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:30.300
And he is a miracle worker.

311
00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:37.300
He is he was born of the Virgin Mary excetera and did miracle he is

312
00:24:37.300 --> 00:24:41.400
called Messiah the spirit of God the word of God the

313
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:41.900
Logos.

314
00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:47.700
But again, when it comes to interpretation, it's radically different.

315
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:52.600
So when it comes to what we I call it the reason of our hope.

316
00:24:52.600 --> 00:24:56.700
What is the reason of our hope is Jesus died on the cross for us?

317
00:24:58.300 --> 00:25:03.800
Was resurrect and he is seated at the right hand of God

318
00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:04.300
the Father.

319
00:25:04.300 --> 00:25:06.800
Is this the third part of the Kerygmatic approach? Yeah, this is as monotheistic believers, yeah.

320
00:25:06.800 --> 00:25:15.000
So so and then the third one is as a witnessing believer.

321
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:20.200
What do you say as a witnessing believer is when we talk to Muslim

322
00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:22.900
and we build relationship with them

323
00:25:22.900 --> 00:25:28.600
they have to be comfortable on opening the Gospel reading the real

324
00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:35.100
story of Jesus in the Gospel with us. Is that a heretical thing to so to open the gospel of read it?

325
00:25:35.100 --> 00:25:41.200
It's a huge step for us to work toward evangelism to Muslim when

326
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:47.800
they are comfortable because (comfortable) of opening the Gospel and reading the gospel with

327
00:25:47.800 --> 00:25:55.000
us or listening to Jesus story with us because for them the Bible is

328
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:55.500
corrupt.

329
00:25:56.500 --> 00:26:01.500
Okay, so they are trained on this

330
00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:03.400
don't touch don't read this book

331
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:04.700
it's a corrupted book.

332
00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:06.000
Okay.

333
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:11.200
So how do we do it by also being comfortable as a Christian to open the Koran and read the Koran.

334
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:18.700
So I taught the whole course this fall about Muslim and the Gospel.

335
00:26:18.700 --> 00:26:23.300
I said we are not attacking we are not attacking Muhammad and the

336
00:26:23.300 --> 00:26:27.700
Quran saying it's a bad book Muhammad is a bad person. Except that

337
00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:30.300
I know this is confrontational approach

338
00:26:30.300 --> 00:26:33.300
they were run away from us no. We

339
00:26:34.300 --> 00:26:39.000
have to reach a point that to sit together and read the story of

340
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:43.600
Jesus in the Quran and the breal story of Jesus and show them what's the

341
00:26:43.600 --> 00:26:46.900
connection and let the Gospel to convert.

342
00:26:46.900 --> 00:26:48.100
That's a Third Article of Faith.

343
00:26:48.100 --> 00:26:49.500
OK.

344
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:55.100
It's the Holy Spirit that calls God after all the proclamation of the Gospel.

345
00:26:55.100 --> 00:27:00.800
And when you hear I am involved in the in this field for the last 15

346
00:27:00.800 --> 00:27:05.800
years / 16 Muslim came to Christ because of our ministry.

347
00:27:05.800 --> 00:27:15.700
No one of them came because I was apologetical I showed them that the Quran is bad and Muhammad is a bad person. All of them came because they opened the

348
00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:20.700
gospel and they saw the life the sweetness as Martin Luther said. The

349
00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:24.700
sweetness in the Gospel and the gospel convicted them and they wanted

350
00:27:24.700 --> 00:27:28.400
more and here we come we are at proclaimer.

351
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.900
We are we we don't convert people.

352
00:27:32.100 --> 00:27:34.200
We are proclaimers, so that's what it is.

353
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.000
We Proclaim to them the gospel.

354
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.000
But by being comfortable also to go to the scripture and read the

355
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.800
scripture and see what this scripture is saying.

356
00:27:42.800 --> 00:27:45.500
So that's the book that is coming.

357
00:27:45.500 --> 00:28:00.000
So I assume this is a long process? It is it might take years. You have to be patient. In cross-cultural building relation takes time.

358
00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:05.400
Especially if your cross-cultural. Exactly. You don't trust me and

359
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.200
I don't trust you but. Exactly, so that's the most important thing is

360
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:10.800
building relationship with them.

361
00:28:10.800 --> 00:28:16.000
And then what when when I teach all the time I said don't go with a

362
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.700
plan you go with a plan you are not transparent.

363
00:28:20.300 --> 00:28:23.800
You are going through this consumistic mentality

364
00:28:23.800 --> 00:28:28.800
I going to sell you the Gospel. No, you go and relate to them as

365
00:28:28.800 --> 00:28:29.100
neighbor.

366
00:28:29.100 --> 00:28:29.900
That's it.

367
00:28:29.900 --> 00:28:32.600
I always say in my experience.

368
00:28:32.600 --> 00:28:37.400
Okay, I baptize 16 Muslim but I have another 16 Muslim who are not

369
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:37.900
baptized.

370
00:28:37.900 --> 00:28:39.400
There are still good friends with me.

371
00:28:40.500 --> 00:28:43.300
Because it's not my job to to convert people.

372
00:28:43.300 --> 00:28:47.700
My job is to be good neighbor and proclaim the gospel to them when

373
00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:51.400
opportunity comes and then the Gospel come back. If they ask me a

374
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:53.700
question about that is my hope I respond.

375
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:57.900
I don't say no Jesus and Muhammad and all of them are together and we

376
00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:02.000
can hold hands and Kumbaya, sing Kumbaya, and go to heaven no I don't say this.

377
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.200
So that is the issue with American. American we are a consumeristic mentality (consumerist), yeah

378
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:11.600
we are a consumerist mentality consumerist mentality.

379
00:29:11.600 --> 00:29:20.600
If I start this project I invest a hundred dollars in it if I don't get another hundred dollars in it in the next 2 months,

380
00:29:20.600 --> 00:29:23.300
then I release these II close this project.

381
00:29:23.300 --> 00:29:25.500
This does not work when you when you work with people.

382
00:29:26.800 --> 00:29:27.900
So that's good.

383
00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:31.800
So that's true Americans today because we're living in a time when when

384
00:29:31.800 --> 00:29:36.200
when people are walking away from the institutional church and

385
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:38.200
everything that I read says relationships.

386
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:42.600
Exactly. Is the way you keep or or bringing them in the in the church, but

387
00:29:42.600 --> 00:29:45.600
it's more pronounced certainly with Muslims. It is yeah.

388
00:29:45.600 --> 00:29:53.900
Muslim is a group oriented and we talked about that shame and honor So there is a whole complex issue.

389
00:29:54.900 --> 00:30:00.300
Of converting because when you convert you leave you leave your

390
00:30:00.300 --> 00:30:06.800
support system you leave your comfort you leave your family many of

391
00:30:06.800 --> 00:30:08.000
them lost their job.

392
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:13.300
They were they were scared to send even their kids to school until

393
00:30:13.300 --> 00:30:19.100
they were able to get out of that society and and and and be disciples

394
00:30:19.100 --> 00:30:24.800
off Christ. Was this in Texas or back in Syria or Iraq? Back home usually

395
00:30:24.800 --> 00:30:28.000
the pressure is less when you live in the west because it's

396
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.600
individualistic and then the government protect your individual right.

397
00:30:32.600 --> 00:30:34.400
There in many country

398
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:35.500
yes,

399
00:30:35.500 --> 00:30:37.600
they say it's is freedom of speech. But

400
00:30:37.600 --> 00:30:43.900
the government does not protect you. Actually the police pushes you and they bring the

401
00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:50.000
mullah to to to to change your mind and push you just to go back.

402
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.900
I mean, this is happening not only in the Muslim in in any society.

403
00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:56.700
Look at my case.

404
00:30:56.700 --> 00:31:00.900
I left the Syrian Orthodox 15 years ago and an up to know some of

405
00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:02.500
my family cannot understand.

406
00:31:02.500 --> 00:31:05.000
This,

407
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:06.200
why did he leave that?

408
00:31:08.100 --> 00:31:11.200
And even though I'm still Christian, I'm still Christian pastor, but

409
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:16.700
for them, I am the heretical, I Am The outsider, I am the enemy. Are any

410
00:31:16.700 --> 00:31:22.200
of your family in the United States? No, most of my family are in Sweden and

411
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:35.000
Germany. Sweden okay.  How did that happen. Germany was the Lutheran. Now its the hub of immigrants. One of the largest Syrian Community now is in Sweden and Germany.

412
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:45.600
Wow! Its not in Syria anymore. It's in Sweden and Germany. That's fascinating. Rehearse again for us when is your new book going to come out?

413
00:31:46.600 --> 00:31:54.200
I am hoping I finished the first draft and and I am hoping by the end

414
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:54.800
of the year

415
00:31:54.800 --> 00:32:02.600
it will be in the market it depends with a publisher and all this. Do you have a

416
00:32:02.600 --> 00:32:07.800
publisher now? i have already send it to 2-3 publisher and we'll see the best deal.

417
00:32:07.800 --> 00:32:12.800
Well, we'll have to get your back on and go through the book and talk

418
00:32:12.800 --> 00:32:18.600
about that. Now every year we have a Multi-Ethnic Symposium and this

419
00:32:18.600 --> 00:32:23.000
year Concordia Seminary is Multi-Ethnic Symposium is May 5th and the

420
00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:27.200
6th and our keynote is going to be delivered by a Doctor Philip

421
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:27.500
Jenkins.

422
00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:32.700
Would you talk about the Multi-Ethnic Symposium and how your work is

423
00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:35.600
going to be factored into the theme?

424
00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:43.600
Yeah, I am one of the organizing committee of this important.

425
00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:48.500
This is what we do it once a year and and the whole team is working

426
00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:49.700
with different ethnic.

427
00:32:49.700 --> 00:33:00.500
This year is called the Rest and the Rest and the West. The Rest and the West, unpack that for us.

428
00:33:00.500 --> 00:33:08.100
The Rest and the West is what what is the church is learning

429
00:33:08.100 --> 00:33:12.500
from the global south. Because now it's well-known when you study that

430
00:33:12.500 --> 00:33:19.900
Christianity is growing in the global south and Christianity is facing

431
00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:25.100
problems with secularism, relativism, excetera in the west. And through

432
00:33:25.100 --> 00:33:25.500
immigration

433
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:31.500
now also, you can see that there is a future for of those immigrants

434
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:35.200
who are moving from the global south to to

435
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:41.000
the west and they're changing the even though the society, you know.

436
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:50.300
Sort of like Sweden and Germany. Exactly, the fabric of the society are changing. Exactly, so the whole Symposium is what do we learn from?

437
00:33:50.300 --> 00:33:51.200
The global south?

438
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:52.800
Okay.

439
00:33:52.800 --> 00:33:56.900
What do we learn? Give you an example as a Lutheran.

440
00:33:56.900 --> 00:34:01.800
Where is the largest Lutheran Church you were there? In Ethiopia.

441
00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:07.500
There baptizing almost a thousand a day. And the growth is 15 to 18%

442
00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:07.800
also.

443
00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:11.100
So and then many of them are coming here.

444
00:34:11.100 --> 00:34:14.300
So what do we learn from this church? We have Ethiopian students at Concordia Seminarry.

445
00:34:14.300 --> 00:34:15.500
Exactly.

446
00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:20.500
So what do we learn from this and and of church and we invited Dr.

447
00:34:20.500 --> 00:34:21.600
Philip Jenkins.

448
00:34:21.600 --> 00:34:21.900
Dr.

449
00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:22.199
Philip

450
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:26.600
Jenkins is a world renowned scholar in global Christianity.

451
00:34:26.600 --> 00:34:31.900
So his book the next Christendom was translated in 12 different

452
00:34:31.900 --> 00:34:32.600
languages.

453
00:34:32.600 --> 00:34:39.100
And it's a classic about the global Christianity in all over the world

454
00:34:39.100 --> 00:34:40.800
in seminaries.

455
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:45.199
And of course, he's my friend also at Baylor because I thought for 10

456
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:49.800
years at Baylor before taking this call. Okay say that again so

457
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:52.300
that our audience recognizes those that you know, what you're talking

458
00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:57.500
about you taught at Baylor University in Waco for 10 years.

459
00:34:57.500 --> 00:34:59.500
I thought for 10 years.

460
00:34:59.500 --> 00:35:03.500
I was a lecturer and then senior lecturer in Arabic language and

461
00:35:03.500 --> 00:35:04.000
culture.

462
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:10.900
And Dr. Philip Jenkins is also he is a visiting scholar is in

463
00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:14.600
charge of all historical global Christianity under The Institute of

464
00:35:14.600 --> 00:35:15.700
study of Religion.

465
00:35:16.600 --> 00:35:21.000
And so we work together at Baylor

466
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.100
he did more than one symposium.

467
00:35:23.100 --> 00:35:26.900
Also, he organized more than one symposium in the global south Syria

468
00:35:26.900 --> 00:35:28.800
Christianity, Armenian excetera.

469
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:32.800
And he's the one who wrote the foreword of my book the first book

470
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:34.000
defending Christian faith.

471
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:41.800
So so he is coming here to share his global experience with with with

472
00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:44.500
the symposium.

473
00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:47.200
And also he will have a meeting with other faculty.

474
00:35:48.600 --> 00:35:54.500
To teach us what is going on globally in the theological

475
00:35:54.500 --> 00:35:55.000
education.

476
00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:01.100
So it's a blessing for him to be with us for two days and share with

477
00:36:01.100 --> 00:36:10.000
us what's going on on the Christianity level, globally and also in the theological

478
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.600
education training us as profession globally.

479
00:36:14.600 --> 00:36:17.000
How do we engage globally in theological education?

480
00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:20.700
So you'll be there. I'm looking forward to this.

481
00:36:20.700 --> 00:36:23.000
I teased you at the start

482
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.400
where where in Germany did your family come from?

483
00:36:26.300 --> 00:36:30.900
But Lutheran's at least Missouri Synod Lutheran's that I deal with

484
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:36.100
we tend to like cocoon ourselves in whether it's German or Scandinavian

485
00:36:36.100 --> 00:36:44.800
our little life and were sincere believers. But this is a whole new world

486
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:49.000
and I think one of the services at Concordia Seminary can provide this

487
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:54.200
program is providing is that wow, look at the movement of the spirit.

488
00:36:54.200 --> 00:36:56.900
You know that I worked at the Lutheran Hour for 12 years,

489
00:36:56.900 --> 00:37:01.400
I was a speaker the Lutheran Hour, and what I learned there in all my

490
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:04.100
travels is wherever the gospel is present

491
00:37:04.100 --> 00:37:06.400
the Holy Spirit is present to work faith.

492
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:12.900
And and and so I'm I'm just excited about the Multi-Ethnic Symposium

493
00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:15.200
and your participation and Dr.

494
00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:15.700
Philip Jenkins,

495
00:37:15.700 --> 00:37:17.300
I look forward to meeting him.

496
00:37:17.300 --> 00:37:23.800
Where can a viewer earlier or radio listener

497
00:37:24.600 --> 00:37:32.800
go to get more information about the Multi-Ethnic Symposium?  They can go to Concordia Seminary website

498
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:38.500
and we had a meeting yesterday and the app is already active.

499
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:44.000
And they can go to Concordia Seminary and it's there they can click

500
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:44.200
there.

501
00:37:44.200 --> 00:37:50.200
And the good thing about it is we are inviting not only Lutherans we

502
00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:52.100
are inviting from the global church.

503
00:37:52.100 --> 00:37:53.800
Let me give you an example.

504
00:37:53.800 --> 00:38:00.000
We invited one of my friends that the Syrian Orthodox Bishop of Eastern

505
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.500
United States. Who was member of World Council of churches, and he was

506
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:09.100
also working with the different churches to help the suffering Church

507
00:38:09.100 --> 00:38:09.800
in Syria.

508
00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:15.900
So he was deeply involved firsthand about the suffering Christianity

509
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:21.300
in Syria and Iraq while ISIS invaded, pre-ISIS, after ISIS so he will come

510
00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:27.200
and and and share his own experience that the suffering

511
00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:30.000
Christianity the Middle East.

512
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.000
Pre-ISIS and after ISIS and then what do we learn in sharing the gospel

513
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.700
from this suffering church, this is one of the thing and then we

514
00:38:37.700 --> 00:38:39.100
invited also Catholic. We invited.

515
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:45.800
Again, as you said we cannot afford to cater to a German Lutheran

516
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:51.100
congregation anymore, we have to open up globally and invite people to

517
00:38:51.100 --> 00:39:00.500
come along our beautiful Lutheran theology. That's how I become Lutheran that how. It's important to stress that because we all get together and sing.

518
00:39:00.500 --> 00:39:05.400
Kumbaya. Exactly. They will come here and they will start to learn about what

519
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:17.200
we believe. Exactly. Our Kerygmatic approach. It not compromising. I am not saying that we have to dilute our confession, no. We invite people to listen to us.

520
00:39:17.200 --> 00:39:26.500
That's the first thing to listen to our theology and to inquire about theology.  So when we invite these people that does not mean I

521
00:39:26.500 --> 00:39:29.300
compromise or a dilute

522
00:39:29.300 --> 00:39:34.400
my theology in order to be good friends with Orthodox. I invite them to listen to me. Yeah, were Lutheran

523
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:36.200
Lutheran 11, Lutheran 11. That's what I do when I talk to my friends whether

524
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:45.000
Orthodox or Catholic or Muslim that's what I do I share my faith. That's great. What's the next big thing on your horizon?

525
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:54.500
Okay, then the next thing right now I'm finishing this book and then I'm working on a second book also, which is this

526
00:39:54.500 --> 00:39:59.100
the second part of this book defending Christian Faith. Christian

527
00:39:59.100 --> 00:40:01.600
apologetical discourses of Gimo Semos.

528
00:40:01.600 --> 00:40:06.200
This is a twelfth-century Arabic Christian writer who basically writes

529
00:40:06.200 --> 00:40:08.900
Systematic Theology but in an Islamic context.

530
00:40:08.900 --> 00:40:12.000
So again, it's a cross-cultural theology.

531
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:12.500
Wow.

532
00:40:12.500 --> 00:40:12.800
Wow.

533
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:14.900
I wish I were younger Dr.

534
00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:15.300
Bahkou.

535
00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:17.100
Thank you so much for being with us today.

536
00:40:17.100 --> 00:40:19.600
And I thank you our audience.

537
00:40:19.600 --> 00:40:20.800
I'm Dale Meyer.

538
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:25.300
This has been Word and Work an Intersection and may the intersection

539
00:40:25.300 --> 00:40:26.300
of word and work.

540
00:40:26.300 --> 00:40:28.800
Be busy on your corner.