1 00:00:05,030 --> 00:00:06,800 We are about to start folks. If you want 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:08,570 to continue to talk, I recommend you to 3 00:00:08,570 --> 00:00:08,900 leave 4 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:11,410 the room please. If you want to be here 5 00:00:11,410 --> 00:00:13,910 for the conversations, then we will sit 6 00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:14,610 down and 7 00:00:14,610 --> 00:00:17,110 listen. I appreciate that. Thank you. 8 00:00:17,110 --> 00:00:19,780 People in the back as well, if you want 9 00:00:19,780 --> 00:00:20,980 to move forward 10 00:00:21,820 --> 00:00:24,650 because we have time and we need to 11 00:00:24,650 --> 00:00:27,820 follow what we need to do right now. So 12 00:00:27,820 --> 00:00:28,820 thank you 13 00:00:28,820 --> 00:00:33,400 for your attention. So we will have a 14 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,370 roundtable conversation. We invite three 15 00:00:38,370 --> 00:00:40,340 speakers. Dr. 16 00:00:40,370 --> 00:00:43,470 Samuel Deressa is Assistant Professor of 17 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:46,440 Theology and Global South for Christian 18 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:47,280 Outreach 19 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,210 and Director of GCO Program, Concord 20 00:00:50,210 --> 00:00:53,550 University, St. Paul. We have Reverend Vue 21 00:00:53,550 --> 00:00:55,350 Lee. He's Assistant 22 00:00:55,350 --> 00:00:57,750 to the President of Formations, the 23 00:00:57,750 --> 00:01:00,360 L.C.M.S. Minnesota South District. And 24 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:01,460 Pastor German 25 00:01:01,460 --> 00:01:04,560 Novelli is a good friend and also, I mean 26 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,830 all of them are my friends, but Pastor at 27 00:01:07,830 --> 00:01:10,470 Grace Lutheran Church in Milwaukee is the 28 00:01:10,470 --> 00:01:13,070 former President for Hispanic Missionary 29 00:01:13,070 --> 00:01:13,740 League. 30 00:01:15,270 --> 00:01:19,070 We tried to have three different speakers 31 00:01:19,070 --> 00:01:22,410 to talk about the Catholicity of the 32 00:01:22,410 --> 00:01:23,240 church 33 00:01:23,980 --> 00:01:26,450 from their own practice in ministry. So 34 00:01:26,450 --> 00:01:28,950 each one of them are going to speak for 35 00:01:28,950 --> 00:01:29,850 20 minutes. 36 00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:34,760 And we gave them two questions to answer 37 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,790 in 20 minutes. One of the questions was 38 00:01:37,790 --> 00:01:38,490 how do 39 00:01:38,490 --> 00:01:41,360 you take into consideration cultural 40 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,600 ethnicity and linguistic diversity in the 41 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:45,630 context of 42 00:01:45,630 --> 00:01:48,770 your ministry? And the second one is how 43 00:01:48,770 --> 00:01:51,670 are people from different backgrounds 44 00:01:51,670 --> 00:01:52,540 actively 45 00:01:53,210 --> 00:01:56,080 involved in the work of your ministry and 46 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,450 your mission? How are they helping 47 00:01:58,450 --> 00:01:59,480 contributing 48 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,080 to the talents with the talents and gifts 49 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,620 that they have? So we not only gave them 50 00:02:04,620 --> 00:02:05,020 two 51 00:02:05,020 --> 00:02:08,390 questions but we also asked them to 52 00:02:08,390 --> 00:02:11,660 answer the questions based in five 53 00:02:11,660 --> 00:02:13,500 things. Worship, 54 00:02:14,430 --> 00:02:17,500 catechesis, missions, in service or 55 00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:20,840 preaching. So they will answer the two 56 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,500 questions in the 57 00:02:22,540 --> 00:02:24,640 five things from the perspective of the 58 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:26,340 five things I told you. Worship, 59 00:02:26,340 --> 00:02:27,640 catechesis, missions, 60 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,880 service and preaching. They will not 61 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,010 address all the five. We told them to 62 00:02:32,010 --> 00:02:32,980 pick three out 63 00:02:32,980 --> 00:02:37,020 of the five. So I would like to invite 64 00:02:37,020 --> 00:02:41,060 our speakers to take place here on the 65 00:02:41,060 --> 00:02:42,320 table and 66 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,900 we will start first with Reverend Vue Lee 67 00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:50,870 and then we will have Pastor German 68 00:02:50,870 --> 00:02:52,470 Novelli and 69 00:02:52,470 --> 00:02:55,670 then Dr. Samuel Deressa. Please help me 70 00:02:55,670 --> 00:02:58,170 to welcome them to the stage. 71 00:02:58,170 --> 00:03:27,700 Good morning, Reverend. 72 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,210 Good morning. I'm excited to be here. 73 00:03:36,210 --> 00:03:39,280 We'll see if I can see with or without my 74 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,050 reading 75 00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:43,790 glasses. But it is here. So it's an honor 76 00:03:43,790 --> 00:03:47,290 and a privilege to be able to join you 77 00:03:47,290 --> 00:03:47,920 guys 78 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,730 here this morning. I'm going to be 79 00:03:51,730 --> 00:03:56,230 speaking on, from the Hmong perspective 80 00:03:56,230 --> 00:03:57,670 as I, as I 81 00:03:57,700 --> 00:03:59,770 grew up and work in church planting among 82 00:03:59,770 --> 00:04:01,900 the, the Hmong people who are, I would say 83 00:04:01,900 --> 00:04:04,740 roughly 95 percent non-believers. So 84 00:04:04,740 --> 00:04:07,840 coming from a non-believing culture and 85 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:08,940 perspective 86 00:04:08,940 --> 00:04:11,550 and then once they are in the church, you 87 00:04:11,550 --> 00:04:14,120 know, how do we do that together in our, 88 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:14,480 our 89 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,120 Catholicity and, you know, how does that 90 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,820 look like? And then now me working at the 91 00:04:19,820 --> 00:04:20,620 Minnesota 92 00:04:21,190 --> 00:04:23,790 South District as the missions director 93 00:04:23,790 --> 00:04:26,490 and how do we do that within the context 94 00:04:26,490 --> 00:04:27,130 of our 95 00:04:27,130 --> 00:04:30,160 larger church? And so a brief 96 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,970 introduction on the Hmong animism and 97 00:04:33,970 --> 00:04:36,100 animistic belief, 98 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,410 right? So, you know, we believe that all 99 00:04:38,410 --> 00:04:40,240 things are, living or not living, you 100 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:40,940 know, has a 101 00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:43,140 spirit or has a spirit of its own. So for 102 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:45,250 example, if you were to enter into this 103 00:04:45,250 --> 00:04:45,880 building, 104 00:04:46,210 --> 00:04:48,220 there is a spirit that guards this 105 00:04:48,220 --> 00:04:50,020 building and if you do not have 106 00:04:50,020 --> 00:04:51,250 permission to come 107 00:04:51,250 --> 00:04:53,990 into this building, then something bad 108 00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:56,820 will happen to you while you're here or 109 00:04:56,820 --> 00:04:57,690 after you 110 00:04:57,690 --> 00:05:00,500 have left, right? And so there is spirit 111 00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:03,360 that guards everything that has ownership 112 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:04,000 of it. 113 00:05:04,170 --> 00:05:05,770 But the Hmong people also believe, and 114 00:05:05,770 --> 00:05:07,200 depending on who you ask, but the 115 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:08,300 majority of Hmong people 116 00:05:08,300 --> 00:05:11,840 believe that we have three souls. So that 117 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:15,540 when we die, one stays with the body, one 118 00:05:15,540 --> 00:05:18,210 goes into the land of the ancestors, and 119 00:05:18,210 --> 00:05:20,750 then one gets reincarnated. And so you 120 00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:21,550 have this 121 00:05:21,550 --> 00:05:24,720 three-soul concept. And the spiritual 122 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,920 world controls the physical world. We 123 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,490 have no control 124 00:05:29,490 --> 00:05:31,690 over the spiritual world. And, you know, 125 00:05:31,690 --> 00:05:33,930 we understand that very well, even in the 126 00:05:33,930 --> 00:05:34,560 Christian 127 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,200 church, right? You know, God is God and 128 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,970 we have no control over that. But God has 129 00:05:39,970 --> 00:05:40,500 given 130 00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:43,840 us His will to do His work. And so the 131 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:47,310 culture is very spiritual. And for us as 132 00:05:47,310 --> 00:05:48,640 evangelists, 133 00:05:48,740 --> 00:05:50,550 as missionaries to the Hmong people, 134 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:52,350 because they are already, or we are 135 00:05:52,350 --> 00:05:53,250 already a very 136 00:05:53,250 --> 00:05:57,250 spiritual group of people, then speaking 137 00:05:57,250 --> 00:06:01,260 from a spiritual aspect is actually very 138 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:02,060 easy. 139 00:06:02,590 --> 00:06:05,860 I think sometimes when we speak about the 140 00:06:05,860 --> 00:06:09,060 spiritual aspect of our Christian faith, 141 00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:09,630 it's 142 00:06:10,230 --> 00:06:13,130 harder to speak to our American culture 143 00:06:13,130 --> 00:06:16,000 about spirituality sometimes. It's easy 144 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:16,770 to talk 145 00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:18,670 about God the Father and God the Son, but 146 00:06:18,670 --> 00:06:20,480 once we start talking about the Spirit 147 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:20,740 and 148 00:06:20,740 --> 00:06:22,780 all these different avenues of it, I 149 00:06:22,780 --> 00:06:24,610 think it's harder for some of our 150 00:06:24,610 --> 00:06:25,750 American cultures 151 00:06:25,750 --> 00:06:29,320 to understand that. But when you come 152 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,150 from a very spiritual background and the 153 00:06:33,150 --> 00:06:34,320 animistic 154 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,320 culture, when you talk about spirits, 155 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,430 they're like, yeah, it happens all the 156 00:06:38,430 --> 00:06:39,230 time. We see 157 00:06:39,230 --> 00:06:41,500 it all the time. And so the Hmong people 158 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:43,800 do believe in a Creator. They do believe 159 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:44,200 that 160 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,670 there is a devil. They do believe that 161 00:06:45,670 --> 00:06:47,200 there's a good spirit and they believe in 162 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:47,670 there are 163 00:06:47,670 --> 00:06:50,000 bad spirits. And so they also believe in 164 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,370 shamanism, right? We have shamans. One of 165 00:06:52,370 --> 00:06:53,210 the shamans 166 00:06:53,210 --> 00:06:55,640 is our, in a sense, our medicine man, 167 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,050 right? The person that not only when 168 00:06:58,050 --> 00:06:58,980 you're sick 169 00:06:58,980 --> 00:07:01,620 physically but you also comes in need 170 00:07:01,620 --> 00:07:04,120 when you are sick, when you're sick 171 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,190 spiritually. 172 00:07:06,890 --> 00:07:08,920 And so I want to show you guys a video 173 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,160 that's going to come up next. It's a very 174 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:11,960 short video, 175 00:07:12,060 --> 00:07:14,500 I think like a minute and a half, of a 176 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:16,730 shaman doing a ritual. And this was 177 00:07:16,730 --> 00:07:17,870 produced by the 178 00:07:17,870 --> 00:07:19,600 National Geographic. And what's 179 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,770 interesting about this video is the guy 180 00:07:21,770 --> 00:07:22,700 that's in this 181 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:26,440 video lives in the same town that I grew 182 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,110 up with. He's actually my first cousin. 183 00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:31,050 So he's 184 00:07:31,050 --> 00:07:33,780 a shaman and I'm a pastor, okay? We are 185 00:07:33,780 --> 00:07:36,550 at odds. Not really. We love each other. 186 00:07:36,550 --> 00:07:37,190 We do. 187 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:38,850 We love each other. But I understand 188 00:07:38,850 --> 00:07:40,590 where he's coming from. And he knows that 189 00:07:40,590 --> 00:07:40,920 I'm a 190 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,120 pastor. He understands where I'm coming 191 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,330 from. Because from his perspective, you 192 00:07:45,330 --> 00:07:46,060 know, he's 193 00:07:46,060 --> 00:07:47,500 doing good for his family. He's doing 194 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:49,030 good for the community, right? He is the 195 00:07:49,030 --> 00:07:49,430 medicine 196 00:07:49,430 --> 00:07:51,370 man. He's the spiritual guy. Everybody 197 00:07:51,370 --> 00:07:53,370 goes to him whenever they need help. So 198 00:07:53,370 --> 00:07:53,900 from his 199 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:56,070 perspective, he's doing good for the 200 00:07:56,070 --> 00:07:57,970 community. And I understand that 201 00:07:57,970 --> 00:07:59,570 completely. And so we're 202 00:07:59,570 --> 00:08:08,950 going to see that we're here real quick. 203 00:08:08,950 --> 00:08:18,090 All right. So that was very interesting 204 00:08:18,090 --> 00:08:20,930 when they 205 00:08:20,930 --> 00:08:23,600 did that video. And I'm like, yeah, 206 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,770 that's my cousin. I get to talk about him 207 00:08:26,770 --> 00:08:27,600 now. And 208 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,270 I get to use him in presentations that I 209 00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:32,910 do here. You know, I don't have a lot of 210 00:08:32,910 --> 00:08:33,540 slides. 211 00:08:33,940 --> 00:08:36,210 But at the same time, there's a lot to 212 00:08:36,210 --> 00:08:38,580 talk about. And I found out that we were 213 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:39,080 going 214 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,280 to have a Hispanic and an Asian and an 215 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,420 African guy up here. I don't know how 216 00:08:43,420 --> 00:08:44,220 we're going 217 00:08:44,220 --> 00:08:46,850 to do it in 20 minutes each. So we're 218 00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:49,720 going to hold you hostage. And sometimes, 219 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:50,560 you know, 220 00:08:50,990 --> 00:08:53,490 we're very event oriented, right? So it's 221 00:08:53,490 --> 00:08:56,130 like, I don't really have a watch. That's 222 00:08:56,130 --> 00:08:58,300 how it is. I don't really have a watch. 223 00:08:58,300 --> 00:09:00,370 So when it's your turn, just stand up. 224 00:09:00,370 --> 00:09:00,940 Oh, you 225 00:09:00,940 --> 00:09:04,340 have a watch. Okay. Well, I don't. So too 226 00:09:04,340 --> 00:09:07,580 bad. But when it comes to, when we talk 227 00:09:07,580 --> 00:09:08,240 about 228 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,680 these things in candid cases and come 229 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:13,250 from my context and the folks that I've 230 00:09:13,250 --> 00:09:14,250 been working 231 00:09:14,250 --> 00:09:16,720 with, you know, the last 20 plus years is 232 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,050 in the Hmong context. And even when you 233 00:09:19,050 --> 00:09:19,490 work 234 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:22,190 in the context of whatever group that 235 00:09:22,190 --> 00:09:24,790 you're in, you learn the people. You 236 00:09:24,790 --> 00:09:26,130 learn what they 237 00:09:26,130 --> 00:09:29,530 believe in. And so we have three souls. 238 00:09:29,530 --> 00:09:32,700 We believe that. And so when we talk 239 00:09:32,700 --> 00:09:34,640 about Christianity, 240 00:09:34,900 --> 00:09:37,370 we talk about God, the Father, the Son, 241 00:09:37,370 --> 00:09:39,710 the Holy Spirit, it flows very easily 242 00:09:39,710 --> 00:09:40,410 into it. 243 00:09:42,580 --> 00:09:44,350 The Hmong people believe that there is a 244 00:09:44,350 --> 00:09:46,110 creator, there's a devil. There are good 245 00:09:46,110 --> 00:09:46,810 angels. There 246 00:09:46,810 --> 00:09:49,450 are bad angels. All that flows very 247 00:09:49,450 --> 00:09:52,490 easily into it. The shaman or we believe 248 00:09:52,490 --> 00:09:53,620 that there's 249 00:09:53,790 --> 00:09:56,090 the ultimate shaman. And the ultimate 250 00:09:56,090 --> 00:09:58,490 shaman ends up being, well, we have the 251 00:09:58,490 --> 00:09:59,160 ultimate 252 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,760 spirit, which is the Holy Spirit. We have 253 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,070 the ultimate shaman, which is Jesus, 254 00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:04,630 right. 255 00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:07,940 All that gets kind of shifted over and 256 00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:11,140 replaced. And then that fear of working. 257 00:10:11,140 --> 00:10:12,210 One aspect 258 00:10:12,210 --> 00:10:14,910 of Christianity is you no longer have 259 00:10:14,910 --> 00:10:17,580 fear. In the animism world, it's all 260 00:10:17,580 --> 00:10:18,580 about fear. 261 00:10:18,580 --> 00:10:22,180 Everything is appeasing with fear. But 262 00:10:22,180 --> 00:10:25,990 when we switch that over, it's all about 263 00:10:25,990 --> 00:10:26,720 peace 264 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,060 and grace. Some of the concepts are very 265 00:10:31,060 --> 00:10:34,700 similar, but one is fear and one is peace 266 00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:35,930 and joy and 267 00:10:35,930 --> 00:10:38,670 grace. But it is hard sometimes when we 268 00:10:38,670 --> 00:10:41,070 talk about that because when we go 269 00:10:41,070 --> 00:10:42,540 through catechesis 270 00:10:42,540 --> 00:10:45,870 with the people that are looking to come 271 00:10:45,870 --> 00:10:49,280 into the church, it's not just a six-week 272 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:50,110 course. 273 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,050 It ends up being six months, even 274 00:10:53,050 --> 00:10:55,420 sometimes a year, to fully grasp all 275 00:10:55,420 --> 00:10:56,580 these different 276 00:10:56,580 --> 00:10:59,890 understandings because what is tradition? 277 00:10:59,890 --> 00:11:03,090 What is culture? What is the belief? And 278 00:11:03,090 --> 00:11:03,660 it's 279 00:11:03,660 --> 00:11:07,660 all so intertwined in your life that when 280 00:11:07,660 --> 00:11:11,470 I believe in God, I believe in the Holy 281 00:11:11,470 --> 00:11:12,430 Spirit. 282 00:11:12,530 --> 00:11:14,900 When I believe in Jesus and the Spirit, 283 00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:17,140 well, which part of that can I do and 284 00:11:17,140 --> 00:11:17,940 which part 285 00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:21,410 of that can I not do out of my tradition 286 00:11:21,410 --> 00:11:24,880 and out of my culture? Can I still go to 287 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,080 my father's 288 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,880 house if they're having a shamanistic 289 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,990 ritual? Can I eat the food that they make 290 00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:32,820 there at 291 00:11:32,820 --> 00:11:35,560 that ritual or do I not? Sounds kind of 292 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:37,860 familiar from things from the New 293 00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:39,260 Testament, but it 294 00:11:39,260 --> 00:11:42,330 still happens today. So these are some of 295 00:11:42,330 --> 00:11:45,070 the things that we have to go through 296 00:11:45,070 --> 00:11:45,600 with 297 00:11:46,170 --> 00:11:49,500 the new believers. And so you would have 298 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:52,940 someone who is a shaman and he would have 299 00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:54,110 a big altar 300 00:11:54,110 --> 00:11:57,550 like that. I mean, the congregation that 301 00:11:57,550 --> 00:12:00,980 I have, we have two ex-shamans that used 302 00:12:00,980 --> 00:12:01,420 to 303 00:12:01,420 --> 00:12:04,320 be shamans, but now they're believers. 304 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,050 And we had to go and tear down their 305 00:12:07,050 --> 00:12:08,120 altars, but 306 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,620 that's just one of the first steps of 307 00:12:10,620 --> 00:12:12,660 tearing down the altar, but then taking 308 00:12:12,660 --> 00:12:13,260 that down 309 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:17,160 and replacing it with a cross. That 310 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,740 becomes the new symbol of their life. And 311 00:12:21,740 --> 00:12:23,070 then when 312 00:12:23,070 --> 00:12:26,810 you get into the preaching aspect of it, 313 00:12:26,810 --> 00:12:30,380 how do you preach? What generation are 314 00:12:30,380 --> 00:12:31,880 you preaching 315 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,580 to? When we talk about multi-ethnic 316 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:39,820 immigrant type of ministries, we look at 317 00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:41,320 this and we 318 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,220 say, well, are we preaching to the first 319 00:12:43,220 --> 00:12:44,990 generation or are we preaching to the 320 00:12:44,990 --> 00:12:45,990 second generation? 321 00:12:46,430 --> 00:12:48,860 Or are we preaching to the third? It's 322 00:12:48,860 --> 00:12:51,430 got a whole avenue of it. And on how you 323 00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:52,000 do the 324 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,070 ministry, on how you keep families 325 00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:58,210 together, not just within their own 326 00:12:58,210 --> 00:12:59,910 context of their 327 00:12:59,910 --> 00:13:02,810 ethnicity, but then how does that work 328 00:13:02,810 --> 00:13:05,880 when you have an Anglo church that hosts 329 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:06,480 them? 330 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,150 Are they renters or are they members of 331 00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:13,220 that church? And how do these, it's not 332 00:13:13,220 --> 00:13:14,090 just how 333 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:17,090 do the two groups work together, but then 334 00:13:17,090 --> 00:13:20,230 what generation are they? Because that is 335 00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:23,330 the whole dynamic of its own. And are you 336 00:13:23,330 --> 00:13:26,230 preaching to first or second generation 337 00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:27,070 American 338 00:13:27,070 --> 00:13:30,840 Christians or are you preaching to first 339 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,380 and generation new Christians? Because 340 00:13:34,380 --> 00:13:35,510 you might 341 00:13:35,510 --> 00:13:38,680 have immigrants that are immigrants to 342 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:41,950 the U.S. and maybe that group of people 343 00:13:41,950 --> 00:13:43,150 are already 344 00:13:43,150 --> 00:13:45,720 believers. They're just believers here in 345 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,460 America now. Then you have the other side 346 00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:50,420 of it where these are brand new 347 00:13:50,420 --> 00:13:52,860 Christians who may be first generation 348 00:13:52,860 --> 00:13:54,430 and second generation. 349 00:13:55,230 --> 00:13:58,070 So it's not just the believing and the 350 00:13:58,070 --> 00:14:00,730 faith part of it, but it's the whole 351 00:14:00,730 --> 00:14:02,370 cultural difference 352 00:14:02,370 --> 00:14:05,710 of the first and second generation on top 353 00:14:05,710 --> 00:14:09,210 of being American, on top of being in two 354 00:14:09,210 --> 00:14:12,550 different worship groups. And so these 355 00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:16,180 are the things that we look at when we do 356 00:14:16,180 --> 00:14:17,250 ministry. 357 00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:22,760 Because what we found out is at the 358 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,760 bottom here is the first generation, and 359 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:27,760 we call 360 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,100 it the future, is kind of in the past. 361 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:32,430 And when I talk to my parents, they're 362 00:14:32,430 --> 00:14:33,000 always 363 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,470 talking about their homeland. They're 364 00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:38,110 always talking about the good old days. 365 00:14:38,110 --> 00:14:39,240 They're always 366 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,240 talking about how when they used to just 367 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,140 farm and work in the fields and in the 368 00:14:43,140 --> 00:14:43,640 village 369 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,510 and never having to pay taxes. Once we 370 00:14:47,510 --> 00:14:51,420 were on the land, we were on the land. 371 00:14:51,420 --> 00:14:52,720 That's it. 372 00:14:53,250 --> 00:14:55,560 We didn't have to pay anything else. It 373 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,630 was the basic simple life. So their 374 00:14:57,630 --> 00:14:58,390 future for 375 00:14:58,390 --> 00:15:01,300 them is always looking to the past. And 376 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:04,230 then the second generation are stuck in 377 00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:05,100 these two 378 00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:08,500 worlds. I've got this worldview here, but 379 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:11,810 I've got this second worldview here. And 380 00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:12,370 then 381 00:15:12,370 --> 00:15:14,010 once you get to the third or fourth 382 00:15:14,010 --> 00:15:15,710 generation, they can't relate to the 383 00:15:15,710 --> 00:15:16,640 first generation, 384 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,510 so they're always looking forward. It's a 385 00:15:20,510 --> 00:15:24,290 forward focus. And how we do ministry to 386 00:15:24,290 --> 00:15:24,950 each 387 00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:29,590 of these groups is different. And I know 388 00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:34,360 that we have some questions in our church 389 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:35,160 body 390 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,030 about worship styles and different things 391 00:15:38,030 --> 00:15:41,040 like that, traditional, contemporary. And 392 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,440 I have conversations with people about 393 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,110 that. We have these conversations, we do. 394 00:15:48,110 --> 00:15:48,910 But if 395 00:15:48,910 --> 00:15:51,350 you were to ask a brand new Christian, 396 00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:53,910 how many worship styles do we have, what 397 00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:54,420 would 398 00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:59,490 they say? What's that? What's a worship 399 00:15:59,490 --> 00:16:03,490 style? If you bring them into a 400 00:16:03,490 --> 00:16:06,490 contemporary worship 401 00:16:06,490 --> 00:16:08,560 style, they'll think that that's how you 402 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,360 do church. If you bring them into a 403 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:11,100 traditional 404 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,130 liturgical worship style, they'll say, 405 00:16:13,130 --> 00:16:15,200 that's how you do church. That's not a 406 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,000 conversation 407 00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:18,310 that they understand. That's not a 408 00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:19,970 conversation that they know. That's not 409 00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:20,710 even a part of 410 00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:23,610 the world yet. Their world is, I'm going 411 00:16:23,610 --> 00:16:26,380 to church to believe in God, and these 412 00:16:26,380 --> 00:16:27,110 are the 413 00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:30,750 people that have walked alongside me in 414 00:16:30,750 --> 00:16:34,620 my life. So that is their experience. And 415 00:16:34,620 --> 00:16:35,090 so 416 00:16:35,090 --> 00:16:37,860 some of the things that we may debate 417 00:16:37,860 --> 00:16:40,790 about, talk about, that is, it's out of 418 00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:41,760 sight, out 419 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,260 of mind, not even a part of their 420 00:16:44,260 --> 00:16:47,230 conversation. So how people worship all 421 00:16:47,230 --> 00:16:48,670 depends on their 422 00:16:48,670 --> 00:16:50,940 background. We have a certain style and a 423 00:16:50,940 --> 00:16:52,810 certain way that we do things, but 424 00:16:52,810 --> 00:16:53,340 someone 425 00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:56,110 from the outside that has no idea of how 426 00:16:56,110 --> 00:16:58,880 we do church, they're going to do it the 427 00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:59,280 way 428 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,150 that we do it when they come in. And so 429 00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:05,090 how do we do that in a way that is going 430 00:17:05,090 --> 00:17:06,190 to integrate 431 00:17:06,190 --> 00:17:09,020 our churches and our cultures together 432 00:17:09,020 --> 00:17:12,030 that is going to be successful? And it's 433 00:17:12,030 --> 00:17:12,930 not easy, 434 00:17:13,090 --> 00:17:17,030 it's not. But we have to plan it in a way 435 00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:20,800 that it's going to take 10, 20, even 30 436 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:21,570 years 437 00:17:21,570 --> 00:17:24,670 into the future. It's forward thinking, 438 00:17:24,670 --> 00:17:27,840 it is. And we're in a society where it's 439 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:28,410 very 440 00:17:28,410 --> 00:17:30,810 instant gratification, but when we plan 441 00:17:30,810 --> 00:17:33,280 something, we have to be forward focused 442 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,210 that what we 443 00:17:34,210 --> 00:17:38,390 do now is going to happen 10, 20, 30 444 00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:43,020 years later. Because I wasn't a believer 445 00:17:43,020 --> 00:17:44,190 when we 446 00:17:44,190 --> 00:17:46,730 came to America, we came as refugees. I 447 00:17:46,730 --> 00:17:49,100 wasn't a believer. Those who took our 448 00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:50,330 family to church 449 00:17:50,930 --> 00:17:52,630 doesn't even know that we still go to 450 00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:54,330 church. We went to church and then we 451 00:17:54,330 --> 00:17:55,000 stopped and 452 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,840 then I was baptized at 23 and then 10 453 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,870 years later I went to seminary and then 454 00:18:00,870 --> 00:18:01,710 10 years 455 00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:04,680 later I became a pastor and then now I'm 456 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,550 here speaking in front of you. But that 457 00:18:07,550 --> 00:18:08,580 was planted 458 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,350 40 some years ago. And so the things that 459 00:18:13,350 --> 00:18:16,560 we do sometimes we see the fruits of the 460 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:17,190 labor 461 00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:20,890 sometimes we don't. But we know that what 462 00:18:20,890 --> 00:18:24,530 we do is forward thinking. And sometimes 463 00:18:24,530 --> 00:18:24,970 we 464 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,100 come back around and sometimes we don't 465 00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:35,240 see it. I've heard Dr. Samuel here says 466 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,310 that, 467 00:18:37,780 --> 00:18:40,010 if I remember what you said correctly, 468 00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:42,420 that he is a product of missionaries that 469 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:43,080 has gone 470 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,450 to Africa. That he is a product of 471 00:18:47,450 --> 00:18:52,630 missionaries that has gone to Africa and 472 00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:54,930 now he has come 473 00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:58,170 as a professor at Concordia teaching 474 00:18:58,170 --> 00:19:01,640 future missionaries. That's the work of 475 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:02,640 God. And 476 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,070 that's what we do as the body of Christ 477 00:19:05,070 --> 00:19:07,210 and I just want to encourage us to 478 00:19:07,210 --> 00:19:08,080 continue to 479 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,940 do that because you may see the fruits of 480 00:19:10,940 --> 00:19:13,950 your labor and you may not, but that's up 481 00:19:13,950 --> 00:19:15,450 to God. Amen? 482 00:19:15,450 --> 00:19:15,550 Amen. 483 00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:38,140 If my wife calls you, don't take it 484 00:19:38,140 --> 00:19:43,080 please. Buena dias! Good morning. Thank 485 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,450 you my audience. 486 00:19:45,450 --> 00:19:47,980 Alma mater for having me here this 487 00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:50,920 morning to speak here in the multiethnic 488 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:51,890 symposium. 489 00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:55,660 It's always in my calendar for every 490 00:19:55,660 --> 00:19:58,730 year. I have to be in St. Louis the first 491 00:19:58,730 --> 00:19:59,460 week in 492 00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:02,160 May for the multiethnic symposium and if 493 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,800 you have not done that yet, do it. Mark 494 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:05,530 the next 495 00:20:05,530 --> 00:20:08,500 year, so you are here again next year. 496 00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:11,410 Thank you so much. I was planning and 497 00:20:11,410 --> 00:20:12,670 talking about 498 00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:16,740 language as one big factor at the time of 499 00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:20,350 doing ministry, preaching, teaching, 500 00:20:20,350 --> 00:20:21,750 worshiping. 501 00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:24,450 Language is always important, especially 502 00:20:24,450 --> 00:20:26,650 from the perspective of the Hispanic and 503 00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:27,150 Latino 504 00:20:27,150 --> 00:20:29,820 community. On my walk in here this 505 00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:32,790 morning, I passed by the Martin Luther 506 00:20:32,790 --> 00:20:34,130 statue we have 507 00:20:34,130 --> 00:20:36,360 out there and I was thinking about what 508 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,700 if Martin Luther come to the multiethnic 509 00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:39,400 symposium 510 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,940 here at Concordia Seminary, which 511 00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:45,140 language will he speak? Keep in mind that 512 00:20:45,140 --> 00:20:46,040 this is a 513 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,980 guy who wanted to bring the gospel to the 514 00:20:48,980 --> 00:20:51,580 people in their language and this is 515 00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:52,350 actually 516 00:20:52,910 --> 00:20:56,220 what we have to do to bring the goodness 517 00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:59,450 of Jesus to the language of the people. 518 00:20:59,450 --> 00:21:00,190 Story, 519 00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:04,390 1954, in a little town called Marfa, 520 00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:07,760 Texas, a Blackwell Elementary School 521 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,360 where only two 522 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,230 Hispanic children could attend. They had 523 00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:16,370 one of the most difficult days to 524 00:21:16,370 --> 00:21:17,700 embrace, to 525 00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:21,480 accept because teachers and the people in 526 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,410 the school asked all the students to take 527 00:21:25,410 --> 00:21:28,480 a little piece of paper and write down 528 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,790 the following statement. I will not speak 529 00:21:31,790 --> 00:21:32,590 Spanish 530 00:21:32,590 --> 00:21:36,020 in school. They had to roll those little 531 00:21:36,020 --> 00:21:39,090 papers and they put all those little 532 00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:40,990 papers in cigarette 533 00:21:40,990 --> 00:21:45,870 boxes. We are in 1954, okay? Don't do 534 00:21:45,870 --> 00:21:50,370 that. And then they took all these 535 00:21:50,370 --> 00:21:52,740 cigarette boxes 536 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,080 to the backyard where there was the 537 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,980 American flagpole there and they put 538 00:21:58,980 --> 00:22:00,580 those boxes under 539 00:22:00,580 --> 00:22:03,250 the ground. And the message was pretty 540 00:22:03,250 --> 00:22:05,990 clear. Starting today, you cannot speak 541 00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:06,890 Spanish in 542 00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:12,790 school. Nadie me va para amida hablar 543 00:22:12,790 --> 00:22:19,170 español. Said Maggie Marcus. No one will 544 00:22:19,170 --> 00:22:21,570 stop me from 545 00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:24,600 speaking in Spanish here in Texas. Come 546 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,770 on. Well, Maggie received some punishment 547 00:22:27,770 --> 00:22:28,340 from 548 00:22:28,340 --> 00:22:31,240 the principal with a paddle tennis 549 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,510 racket. That's what they use. And this 550 00:22:34,510 --> 00:22:35,650 episode is 551 00:22:35,650 --> 00:22:39,820 known as the Burial of Mr. Spanish. It is 552 00:22:39,820 --> 00:22:43,290 curious and sad because one of the 553 00:22:43,290 --> 00:22:44,320 biggest 554 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,790 challenges I have had in these years in 555 00:22:46,790 --> 00:22:49,260 ministry here in the United States, I'm 556 00:22:49,260 --> 00:22:50,460 also the product 557 00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:53,400 of missionaries sent to Venezuela. And 558 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,400 thanks to your parents and grandparents 559 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,340 that sent 560 00:22:57,340 --> 00:22:59,810 missionaries to my country, I am here 561 00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:02,210 this morning. So praise God for that 562 00:23:02,210 --> 00:23:03,280 mission work. 563 00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:09,150 Whether you like it or not, okay? But I 564 00:23:09,150 --> 00:23:13,390 have heard so many times from people this 565 00:23:13,390 --> 00:23:14,620 beautiful 566 00:23:14,620 --> 00:23:16,990 desire of bringing the gospel to 567 00:23:16,990 --> 00:23:19,960 communities, to multi-ethnic groups. But 568 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,230 don't touch my 569 00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:23,630 English ministry. Don't touch my English 570 00:23:23,630 --> 00:23:26,100 services. We are in the United States and 571 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:27,070 here we speak 572 00:23:27,070 --> 00:23:29,270 in English. And the other day I was 573 00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:31,510 riding around and I saw this bumper 574 00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:32,640 sticker. I love 575 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,110 reading the bumper stickers. They're 576 00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:37,880 pretty cool sometimes. But this was not. 577 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:38,580 It says 578 00:23:38,580 --> 00:23:42,380 this is America. Learn English or live. I 579 00:23:42,380 --> 00:23:45,990 don't want us to get emotional. This is 580 00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:46,550 not 581 00:23:46,550 --> 00:23:50,560 my intention today nor my approach. 582 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,530 Instead, I would like us to think a 583 00:23:54,530 --> 00:23:57,060 moment for a moment 584 00:23:57,060 --> 00:24:00,230 about language as the common link or the 585 00:24:00,230 --> 00:24:02,900 glue of the culture. Latin America 586 00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:04,270 countries have 587 00:24:04,270 --> 00:24:06,940 a lot in common. And at the same time, we 588 00:24:06,940 --> 00:24:09,480 have so many things that are different. 589 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,140 Believe 590 00:24:10,140 --> 00:24:11,910 me when I tell you that Hispanics coming 591 00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:13,480 from Mexico are totally different to 592 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:14,150 those coming 593 00:24:14,150 --> 00:24:17,220 from the Caribbean area, the Dominican 594 00:24:17,220 --> 00:24:20,250 Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Colombia, 595 00:24:20,250 --> 00:24:21,620 Venezuela. And 596 00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:26,530 this is the same thing with the Hispanics 597 00:24:26,530 --> 00:24:31,700 coming from the south, Peru or Chile. I'm 598 00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:34,370 going to speak about Argentina for sure. 599 00:24:34,370 --> 00:24:36,740 Argentina is a good example of that 600 00:24:36,740 --> 00:24:38,140 because, you know, 601 00:24:38,210 --> 00:24:42,040 their neighbors from Brazil never compare 602 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,050 them. Never. Especially if you're talking 603 00:24:46,050 --> 00:24:49,650 about soccer, don't do it. But language 604 00:24:49,650 --> 00:24:52,950 diversity is a crucial and extremely 605 00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:54,720 important factor 606 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,260 in the Catholicity of the church. If you 607 00:24:57,260 --> 00:24:59,660 don't believe me, ask the apostles who 608 00:24:59,660 --> 00:25:00,490 were there 609 00:25:00,490 --> 00:25:04,830 for the Pentecost in Jerusalem. Now, Mr. 610 00:25:04,830 --> 00:25:08,100 Spanish funeral happened in an 611 00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:10,470 educational context 612 00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:13,340 in a school, Texas. The years of the 613 00:25:13,340 --> 00:25:16,540 segregation where education was separate 614 00:25:16,540 --> 00:25:17,810 but equal, as 615 00:25:17,810 --> 00:25:20,480 they used to say. My church, Grace 616 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,720 Lutheran Church in Milwaukee, South Side, 617 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:24,990 had a similar 618 00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:28,620 funeral. But this one had a longer 619 00:25:28,620 --> 00:25:32,460 hospice time, okay? Until the 1920s, 620 00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:34,060 Grace Sunday 621 00:25:34,060 --> 00:25:37,430 services were in German. Second and third 622 00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:40,730 generation of Germans were still growing 623 00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:41,170 up 624 00:25:41,170 --> 00:25:43,700 in Wisconsin and many of them spoke 625 00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:46,710 little or no German at all. They only did 626 00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:48,070 it to understand 627 00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:50,380 why their parents were talking in secret, 628 00:25:50,380 --> 00:25:52,810 right? Or to understand what was going on 629 00:25:52,810 --> 00:25:55,820 in church. Language was a factor of 630 00:25:55,820 --> 00:25:59,120 tension in those days. Our history says 631 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,420 that voters' 632 00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:03,090 meetings at my church last forever. And 633 00:26:03,090 --> 00:26:05,660 many of these meetings ended in German 634 00:26:05,660 --> 00:26:06,560 words that 635 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,060 I won't repeat here out of respect of the 636 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:11,430 amazing and beautiful ladies we have in 637 00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:11,800 the 638 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,900 room. Once again we see how language was 639 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:19,140 a factor of tension, separation, 640 00:26:19,140 --> 00:26:20,570 discussion. 641 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,280 The full history of the English district 642 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,550 is told very well in the book called The 643 00:26:26,550 --> 00:26:27,080 English 644 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,680 District Saga by Dr. David Stechels. This 645 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,020 is the story of Lutheran churches that 646 00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:34,620 even 647 00:26:34,620 --> 00:26:37,290 before the formation of the LCMS as a 648 00:26:37,290 --> 00:26:39,930 synod had chosen to do ministries and 649 00:26:39,930 --> 00:26:40,930 services in 650 00:26:40,930 --> 00:26:43,860 English. In the 20s, the 30s, the 40s, 651 00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:47,000 the English district was accused of being 652 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:47,830 liberal. 653 00:26:49,570 --> 00:26:52,440 According to Pastor Stechels in his book, 654 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,840 his bishop emeritus of the English 655 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:55,710 district, 656 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,580 according to him, guess what was the 657 00:26:59,580 --> 00:27:02,920 number one reason of those accusations to 658 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:03,720 them of 659 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,690 being liberals? According to some, they 660 00:27:07,690 --> 00:27:11,260 were liberals because they spoke in 661 00:27:11,260 --> 00:27:12,660 English and 662 00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:15,900 not in German. So in those years' 20s, my 663 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:18,970 congregation made a decision that tried 664 00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:19,370 to 665 00:27:19,370 --> 00:27:21,400 keep everyone happy. They met in the 666 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,640 voters' meeting and said, you know what? 667 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,370 Let's have 668 00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:26,070 bilingual services, English and German, 669 00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:27,840 and let us try for one year and let's see 670 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:28,110 how 671 00:27:28,110 --> 00:27:33,050 it goes. Those bilingual services lasted 672 00:27:33,050 --> 00:27:38,120 not one year, not two or three, 12 years, 673 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:38,990 just 674 00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:41,220 to try to keep in peace between Germans 675 00:27:41,220 --> 00:27:43,160 and English-speaking groups in the 676 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,090 congregation. 677 00:27:44,420 --> 00:27:48,190 I'm pretty sure that this is the story of 678 00:27:48,190 --> 00:27:51,500 many of our churches. Now, 1939, the 679 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:52,300 Second 680 00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:56,370 World War began and Germany was now the 681 00:27:56,370 --> 00:28:00,170 enemy. Guess what grace did that same 682 00:28:00,170 --> 00:28:02,140 year? It started 683 00:28:02,140 --> 00:28:04,710 held in services in English because not 684 00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:07,310 even the old Germans wanted to speak in 685 00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:07,880 German 686 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,090 anymore. With your permission, what could 687 00:28:12,090 --> 00:28:15,690 we call that day? Let's call it the 688 00:28:15,690 --> 00:28:16,620 burial 689 00:28:16,620 --> 00:28:19,890 of Mr. German. A moment ago, I mentioned 690 00:28:19,890 --> 00:28:23,260 Pentecost, the arrival of the Holy Spirit 691 00:28:23,260 --> 00:28:24,900 upon the apostles 692 00:28:25,570 --> 00:28:28,700 and the baptism and fire of the early 693 00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:32,210 Catholic Church. One thing is clear right 694 00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:33,210 now. Many 695 00:28:33,210 --> 00:28:37,040 languages, many tribes, many nations, but 696 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,050 the one message, the one gospel language, 697 00:28:41,050 --> 00:28:45,150 the one Lord Jesus Christ. And I think 698 00:28:45,150 --> 00:28:49,490 this is key here. Language diversity are 699 00:28:49,490 --> 00:28:51,090 not barriers 700 00:28:51,090 --> 00:28:53,760 that separate us, but it rather means to 701 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,160 reach more and more people. I cannot 702 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:57,500 reach the Chinese 703 00:28:57,500 --> 00:29:00,400 community if I don't even try how to eat 704 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,070 with those sticks, right, or at least 705 00:29:03,070 --> 00:29:03,940 learn the 706 00:29:03,940 --> 00:29:07,640 language. I cannot speak with my Italian 707 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,980 ancestors if I don't try to speak in 708 00:29:10,980 --> 00:29:11,980 Italian. 709 00:29:12,550 --> 00:29:16,150 I cannot preach the gospel to my child, 710 00:29:16,150 --> 00:29:19,920 my deaf son, if I don't try to learn sign 711 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,020 language. 712 00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:25,590 I cannot preach to my brother, Pablo, my 713 00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:28,360 younger brother, who is Generation Z, if 714 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,330 I don't try 715 00:29:29,330 --> 00:29:32,400 to learn his language either because his 716 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,700 language is totally different to mine. In 717 00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:37,740 grace, in our church, we have one Lord 718 00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:39,670 Jesus Christ, we share one faith, one 719 00:29:39,670 --> 00:29:40,470 baptism, and 720 00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:42,910 we have received one spirit, and we 721 00:29:42,910 --> 00:29:45,550 believe in one God. He has cleansed us 722 00:29:45,550 --> 00:29:46,580 all with his 723 00:29:46,580 --> 00:29:49,050 blood shed on the cross, and no matter 724 00:29:49,050 --> 00:29:51,520 the language, I hear this truth or the 725 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:52,220 color of 726 00:29:52,220 --> 00:29:55,320 my skin. He comes to us all because he 727 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,090 loves us all. In the 1920s, German 728 00:29:58,090 --> 00:29:59,330 elders, they 729 00:29:59,330 --> 00:30:01,330 were white, English, Polish, Italian, and 730 00:30:01,330 --> 00:30:03,130 all their nationalities were spoken in 731 00:30:03,130 --> 00:30:03,430 our 732 00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:06,430 neighborhood. Do you know what language 733 00:30:06,430 --> 00:30:09,040 do they speak now 100 years later? 734 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,570 English, Spanish, 735 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,840 Arab, Hmong. The good thing is that we no 736 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,340 longer do languages funerals at grace. 737 00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:19,450 Now we do 738 00:30:19,450 --> 00:30:21,880 celebrations of life and baptism and 739 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,550 wedding and quinceañeras in the language 740 00:30:24,550 --> 00:30:25,690 of the people. 741 00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:29,920 Do you know how many services do we have 742 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,830 at grace? One. Because no matter what 743 00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:34,960 happens, 744 00:30:35,090 --> 00:30:38,200 we have to be one church. This Sunday, by 745 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,970 the way, we are singing this hymn, in 746 00:30:40,970 --> 00:30:41,500 hymn 747 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,270 844 in our hymnals, called God of All 748 00:30:44,270 --> 00:30:46,770 Nations, Give Me Your Grace, and it says, 749 00:30:46,770 --> 00:30:47,570 Break down 750 00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:49,910 the wall that will divide Thy children 751 00:30:49,910 --> 00:30:52,210 Lord on every side. My neighbors good, 752 00:30:52,210 --> 00:30:53,180 let me pursue 753 00:30:53,180 --> 00:30:58,150 the Christian love, bind warm and true. 754 00:30:58,150 --> 00:31:03,390 Amen. Do I have more minutes? Yes? Still? 755 00:31:03,390 --> 00:31:04,390 Okay, 756 00:31:04,390 --> 00:31:09,430 let's preach another sermon then. Thank 757 00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:13,470 you. At the last National Youth 758 00:31:13,470 --> 00:31:15,900 Gathering, I was 759 00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:18,970 excited when I heard that a good friend 760 00:31:18,970 --> 00:31:21,710 of mine, Díocunes Noemí Guerra, was 761 00:31:21,710 --> 00:31:22,480 invited 762 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,940 and asked to be one of the hosts of the 763 00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:27,550 most important event of our youth groups, 764 00:31:27,550 --> 00:31:28,280 you know, 765 00:31:28,350 --> 00:31:31,480 the National Youth Gathering. And I told 766 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,420 her that when I heard the news, I just 767 00:31:34,420 --> 00:31:35,120 cried. 768 00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:39,890 Because not just because I was proud of 769 00:31:39,890 --> 00:31:42,730 her, I love her a lot and her husband and 770 00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:43,660 her family, 771 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,770 but I cried because finally one of us 772 00:31:47,770 --> 00:31:51,000 will be up there on the stage doing such 773 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:51,740 a good 774 00:31:51,740 --> 00:31:54,940 job and I rejoice when I heard that 775 00:31:54,940 --> 00:31:58,340 invitation coming to her. And I would 776 00:31:58,340 --> 00:32:00,080 like us to stand 777 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,620 up for a second. Let me invite you to 778 00:32:02,620 --> 00:32:05,220 stand up. Stand up, stand up. Only for 779 00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:06,190 one second. 780 00:32:09,060 --> 00:32:12,390 Look around the room. Look around the 781 00:32:12,390 --> 00:32:16,060 faces, the colors, the nationalities, the 782 00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:17,330 backgrounds 783 00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:21,130 we have in this room. Smile at each 784 00:32:21,130 --> 00:32:24,840 other, please. Smile at each other 785 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,570 because these 786 00:32:26,570 --> 00:32:30,110 people are your family. We are la 787 00:32:30,110 --> 00:32:34,480 familia. We are a family. We are familia. 788 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,980 You can sit 789 00:32:35,980 --> 00:32:38,480 down. I love coming to conference because 790 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,790 being here, talking with a leader from 791 00:32:40,790 --> 00:32:41,520 different 792 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,390 ethnic groups that make life within LCMS 793 00:32:44,390 --> 00:32:47,090 is wonderful. And here you realize the 794 00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:47,830 talent, 795 00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:49,960 the preparation of the people that we 796 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,900 have in the room. Among us, there are 797 00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:52,800 amazing people 798 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,870 coming from different ethnic groups, you 799 00:32:55,870 --> 00:32:58,540 know, writing amazing books, giving 800 00:32:58,540 --> 00:33:00,270 amazing conferences, 801 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,240 leading phenomenal mission organizations 802 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,650 in different areas of our nation. And we 803 00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:08,250 have 804 00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:10,680 to celebrate all the talents and gifts 805 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,250 that they also have received and we have 806 00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:13,890 to take 807 00:33:13,890 --> 00:33:16,120 advantage of that. We have to keep 808 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,790 inviting them to come to our conferences. 809 00:33:18,790 --> 00:33:19,630 We have to 810 00:33:19,630 --> 00:33:22,160 invite them to take leadership roles in 811 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,560 our churches. Not because we want our 812 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,330 church to 813 00:33:25,330 --> 00:33:28,900 look more diverse because they have 814 00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:33,070 earned those spaces with their hard work. 815 00:33:33,070 --> 00:33:33,970 When I 816 00:33:33,970 --> 00:33:37,540 came to Grace, church was 99% white, 817 00:33:37,540 --> 00:33:41,310 located in one of the largest Hispanic 818 00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:42,880 neighborhoods 819 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,420 in Milwaukee. 99% Anglo-Caucasian. My 820 00:33:47,420 --> 00:33:52,190 first day of work, that changed. We got 821 00:33:52,190 --> 00:33:53,660 the first 822 00:33:53,660 --> 00:33:58,130 Hispanic family, mine. Praise the Lord, 823 00:33:58,130 --> 00:34:02,470 huh? I'm going to be a little bit more 824 00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:03,970 than that. 825 00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:10,180 Today I think the congregation is like 826 00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:14,150 70% Caucasian, 30% Latinos, and we got 827 00:34:14,150 --> 00:34:15,680 two brothers 828 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,220 and their families who are coming from 829 00:34:18,220 --> 00:34:20,720 the African American community. But we 830 00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:21,590 don't care 831 00:34:21,590 --> 00:34:23,990 much about that anymore because 832 00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:26,890 integration is something natural. When 833 00:34:26,890 --> 00:34:28,260 you start doing 834 00:34:28,260 --> 00:34:31,200 things, you don't have to push or force 835 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,000 things. They happen. They happen. Now 836 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,670 there are Hispanics 837 00:34:35,670 --> 00:34:38,240 on the board. There are Hispanics in 838 00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:40,970 charge of the Sunday school education. 839 00:34:40,970 --> 00:34:41,840 There are 840 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,510 Hispanics now this past week. They took 841 00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:47,310 the leadership role in the music group of 842 00:34:47,310 --> 00:34:47,750 our 843 00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:50,920 congregation. We are sending a group of 844 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,020 our church to Tijuana this summer. The 845 00:34:54,020 --> 00:34:55,820 first international 846 00:34:55,820 --> 00:34:58,320 mission trip of our congregation in 130 847 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,990 years of history and half of the group is 848 00:35:00,990 --> 00:35:01,760 Hispanics 849 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,060 and they are helping with the language 850 00:35:05,060 --> 00:35:08,470 barrier for sure. And I'm not coming to 851 00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:10,040 church telling, 852 00:35:10,270 --> 00:35:13,240 hey, this church is yours because that's 853 00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:16,140 just rhetoric. I'm giving them the keys 854 00:35:16,140 --> 00:35:16,810 of the 855 00:35:16,810 --> 00:35:19,080 church. And this is something that we 856 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,350 need to start doing as well. It's not 857 00:35:21,350 --> 00:35:22,350 just inviting 858 00:35:22,350 --> 00:35:26,350 them to the table, to the so-called round 859 00:35:26,350 --> 00:35:30,260 table. It's giving them the keys so they 860 00:35:30,260 --> 00:35:30,920 know 861 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,560 that they are part of the family. Dr. 862 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,160 Prieto, you have said so many times, I 863 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,830 have not heard 864 00:35:39,830 --> 00:35:42,740 that from you in this multiethnic 865 00:35:42,740 --> 00:35:46,070 symposium. You said many times that if 866 00:35:46,070 --> 00:35:47,540 you don't like 867 00:35:47,540 --> 00:35:49,680 this diversity, this diversity of 868 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,150 languages and nationalities and tribes, 869 00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:53,110 well you may 870 00:35:53,110 --> 00:35:59,220 consider that heaven might not be for 871 00:35:59,220 --> 00:36:06,030 you. I'm quoting him. I said at grace, if 872 00:36:06,030 --> 00:36:07,990 you don't 873 00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:11,160 like this diversity, maybe grace is not 874 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,130 for you because this is God's family. 875 00:36:14,130 --> 00:36:15,270 People from 876 00:36:15,970 --> 00:36:19,770 all nationalities, tribes, languages 877 00:36:19,770 --> 00:36:23,910 trying to do ministry together. Not two 878 00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:25,180 churches. 879 00:36:25,610 --> 00:36:28,080 Pastor Tardelli was great this morning in 880 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,480 chapel because it's not about having two 881 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:31,180 churches. 882 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,560 One church, one Lord, one faith, one 883 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,530 baptism. Amen. 884 00:36:55,610 --> 00:37:00,280 All right, thank you. So the difficulty 885 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,680 in being the last speaker is that you 886 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:05,990 only get 887 00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:09,060 to speak on a thing. You'll find it 888 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:12,460 really difficult to find something that 889 00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:13,760 nobody spoke 890 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,300 about and I've been revising my 891 00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:19,330 manuscript last night and I've got no 892 00:37:19,330 --> 00:37:20,800 time to do that 893 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,440 now. But now what I want to do, just to 894 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,480 use my time, is to just take a few 895 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,010 minutes to 896 00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:34,250 recap what we have already been talking 897 00:37:34,250 --> 00:37:37,550 about with regard to the Catholicity and 898 00:37:37,550 --> 00:37:38,480 one holy 899 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,050 Catholic church and just a few minutes on 900 00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:43,590 that and also just a few minutes to talk 901 00:37:43,590 --> 00:37:44,090 about 902 00:37:44,090 --> 00:37:47,930 why multi-ethnic church and why move on 903 00:37:47,930 --> 00:37:51,900 that direction. And I will take a little 904 00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:53,070 more time 905 00:37:53,070 --> 00:37:55,740 too just talking about the Minnesotan 906 00:37:55,740 --> 00:37:58,540 context and what really is happening in 907 00:37:58,540 --> 00:37:59,410 Minnesota 908 00:37:59,410 --> 00:38:02,540 on this regard and what are the struggles 909 00:38:02,540 --> 00:38:05,580 and what are the things that are working 910 00:38:05,580 --> 00:38:06,050 and 911 00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:10,450 what do I envision for the future and 912 00:38:10,450 --> 00:38:14,650 what I would recommend also for the 913 00:38:14,650 --> 00:38:16,320 future. Now 914 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,930 Martin Luther in his summary offers a 915 00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:23,630 straightforward definition of what the 916 00:38:23,630 --> 00:38:25,870 church is about. Now 917 00:38:25,870 --> 00:38:28,630 he states, thank God a seven year old 918 00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:31,670 child knows what the church is and namely 919 00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:32,510 the holy 920 00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:35,980 believers and lums who hear the voice of 921 00:38:35,980 --> 00:38:39,380 their shepherd for the children pray, I 922 00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:40,250 believe 923 00:38:40,250 --> 00:38:43,820 in one holy Christian church. And I think 924 00:38:43,820 --> 00:38:47,590 this definition of the church that Luther 925 00:38:47,590 --> 00:38:50,690 talks about here invites us to really 926 00:38:50,690 --> 00:38:54,060 reflect on what it means to be a church. 927 00:38:54,060 --> 00:38:54,960 And this 928 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,200 statement by Luther encapsulates the core 929 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,670 foundation of the church as the 930 00:39:00,670 --> 00:39:01,670 foundation 931 00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:04,600 of faithful individuals and pure and 932 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,910 devote like lump who follow the teachings 933 00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:09,140 and guidance 934 00:39:09,740 --> 00:39:12,410 of their shepherd. And by highlighting 935 00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:15,150 the belief in one holy Christian church 936 00:39:15,150 --> 00:39:15,780 Luther 937 00:39:15,780 --> 00:39:18,550 underscores the unity and sanctity of the 938 00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:21,490 body of believers transcending ethnic and 939 00:39:21,490 --> 00:39:24,720 cultural boundaries and emphasizing the 940 00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:27,930 universal nature of the church. And of 941 00:39:27,930 --> 00:39:29,600 course our friend 942 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,500 here Leo has said enough on how we can 943 00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:37,740 approach Luther and his writings in terms 944 00:39:37,740 --> 00:39:38,970 of really 945 00:39:38,970 --> 00:39:42,010 thinking about Lutheran ecclesiology in 946 00:39:42,010 --> 00:39:45,010 order to help us think about the multi 947 00:39:45,010 --> 00:39:45,950 ethnicity 948 00:39:46,510 --> 00:39:50,050 of the church. And in today's diverse and 949 00:39:50,050 --> 00:39:53,790 multicultural society, now the concept of 950 00:39:53,790 --> 00:39:57,520 the holy Catholic church is a more 951 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,090 relevant topic than ever. And as 952 00:40:01,090 --> 00:40:03,730 Christians we declare 953 00:40:03,730 --> 00:40:06,230 our belief in one holy Catholic church in 954 00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:08,370 the Nicene Creed but what does this 955 00:40:08,370 --> 00:40:09,070 actually 956 00:40:09,070 --> 00:40:11,570 mean in practice and that is also what 957 00:40:11,570 --> 00:40:14,110 have been discussed but I want to talk 958 00:40:14,110 --> 00:40:14,940 about that 959 00:40:14,940 --> 00:40:18,180 a little bit based on our context in 960 00:40:18,180 --> 00:40:21,280 Minnesota. Now in the beautiful and 961 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,980 diverse state of 962 00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:25,280 Minnesota the confession we believe in 963 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,420 one holy Catholic church takes on a 964 00:40:27,420 --> 00:40:28,820 special significance 965 00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:31,320 as congregations across the region 966 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,930 recognize the need to reclaim their 967 00:40:33,930 --> 00:40:35,560 Catholicity through 968 00:40:36,130 --> 00:40:40,470 embracing multi ethnic church. As a 969 00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:45,540 minister in this unique setting I had the 970 00:40:45,540 --> 00:40:47,040 privilege 971 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,410 of witnessing first hand how communities 972 00:40:50,410 --> 00:40:53,610 are becoming or are coming together to 973 00:40:53,610 --> 00:40:54,650 celebrate 974 00:40:54,650 --> 00:40:58,420 their diversity and unity in faith. Now I 975 00:40:58,420 --> 00:41:01,820 would say Minnesota just like so many 976 00:41:01,820 --> 00:41:02,560 other 977 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,430 states in America is a melting pot of 978 00:41:06,430 --> 00:41:10,400 cultures and ethnicities and languages 979 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,060 with rich you 980 00:41:12,830 --> 00:41:15,300 know arrays of traditions that have 981 00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:17,940 shaped the identity of the state. Now 982 00:41:17,940 --> 00:41:19,510 from the indigenous 983 00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:21,970 communities with deep roots in the land 984 00:41:21,970 --> 00:41:24,180 to immigrants from around the world 985 00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:24,880 bringing 986 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,110 their own unique perspectives, now 987 00:41:27,110 --> 00:41:29,420 Minnesota is a true reflection of a 988 00:41:29,420 --> 00:41:30,680 global community 989 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,020 we live in. In addition to the cultural 990 00:41:34,020 --> 00:41:36,420 diversity, Minnesota is also 991 00:41:36,420 --> 00:41:38,820 characterized by its rich 992 00:41:38,820 --> 00:41:41,390 ethnic composition from Swedish and 993 00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:44,330 Norwegian descendants in the Twin Cities 994 00:41:44,330 --> 00:41:45,430 to Hmong and 995 00:41:46,270 --> 00:41:50,070 Hmong and Somali communities in St. Cloud 996 00:41:50,070 --> 00:41:53,640 and Minneapolis and all these Africans, 997 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:54,410 other 998 00:41:54,410 --> 00:41:57,980 Africans like Ethiopians and others as 999 00:41:57,980 --> 00:42:01,780 well. Now with all these then how is the 1000 00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:03,480 multi ethnicity 1001 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,950 or growing into being multi ethnic church 1002 00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:10,020 how is that working in the Minnesota 1003 00:42:10,020 --> 00:42:10,990 context. 1004 00:42:14,060 --> 00:42:16,130 Now the Lutheran church in Minnesota, the 1005 00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:18,030 Lutheran churches in Minnesota have a 1006 00:42:18,030 --> 00:42:18,360 rich 1007 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,670 history of faith and service but they 1008 00:42:20,670 --> 00:42:23,200 have continued to face challenges when it 1009 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:23,700 comes 1010 00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:26,170 to embracing multi ethnic aspect of 1011 00:42:26,170 --> 00:42:28,970 mission. While many congregations in the 1012 00:42:28,970 --> 00:42:30,040 state remain 1013 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,380 mono ethnic still now, now there are a 1014 00:42:33,380 --> 00:42:36,750 few congregations that have started to 1015 00:42:36,750 --> 00:42:37,620 explore 1016 00:42:37,620 --> 00:42:40,550 and embrace the diverse nature of 1017 00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:44,090 Christian ministry. And the multi ethnic 1018 00:42:44,090 --> 00:42:45,420 landscape of 1019 00:42:45,420 --> 00:42:47,660 Minnesota presents a unique opportunity 1020 00:42:47,660 --> 00:42:49,700 for Lutheran churches to engage with 1021 00:42:49,700 --> 00:42:50,400 people of 1022 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,500 various backgrounds and culture but 1023 00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:54,900 however the transition to a multi ethnic 1024 00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:55,570 ministry 1025 00:42:55,570 --> 00:42:59,470 approach is not always easy and many 1026 00:42:59,470 --> 00:43:03,710 congregations still struggle with that. 1027 00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:05,880 But I really want 1028 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,650 to focus on two areas and congregations 1029 00:43:09,650 --> 00:43:13,590 or places where things are really working 1030 00:43:13,590 --> 00:43:14,290 well 1031 00:43:15,020 --> 00:43:18,120 which I think can be taken as a very good 1032 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,530 example when we talk about multi 1033 00:43:20,530 --> 00:43:21,430 ethnicity 1034 00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:24,630 and how to approach that in our own 1035 00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:27,730 context. And one is the place or a 1036 00:43:27,730 --> 00:43:29,670 congregation where 1037 00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:33,170 my own children worship and it's called 1038 00:43:33,170 --> 00:43:35,840 St. Michael Lutheran Church in 1039 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,540 Bloomington. Now 1040 00:43:37,540 --> 00:43:39,810 what is so special about this 1041 00:43:39,810 --> 00:43:42,780 congregation is what they did. So what 1042 00:43:42,780 --> 00:43:44,450 they did was start 1043 00:43:44,450 --> 00:43:47,050 with the second and the third generation. 1044 00:43:47,050 --> 00:43:49,560 What an interesting approach from their 1045 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:50,520 perspective. 1046 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,960 So what they did is that the local 1047 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,700 church, the St. Michael Lutheran Church 1048 00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:58,360 have one congregation 1049 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,230 that rented their space and is the power 1050 00:44:01,230 --> 00:44:03,940 of the gospel church. Another Lutheran 1051 00:44:03,940 --> 00:44:04,570 church 1052 00:44:04,570 --> 00:44:07,410 or almost speaking Ethiopian Lutheran 1053 00:44:07,410 --> 00:44:10,210 church. So what happened is that they 1054 00:44:10,210 --> 00:44:11,280 figured out 1055 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,450 in terms of like having a common Sunday 1056 00:44:14,450 --> 00:44:17,580 school and confirmation class and youth 1057 00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:18,750 program and 1058 00:44:18,750 --> 00:44:23,790 also they do have two pastors and they 1059 00:44:23,790 --> 00:44:28,690 also recruited or they added one more 1060 00:44:28,690 --> 00:44:30,260 Ethiopian 1061 00:44:30,260 --> 00:44:34,230 pastor who became the lead in terms of 1062 00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:38,400 leading this children ministry and youth 1063 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:39,540 ministry 1064 00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:43,440 in their own congregation. So what that 1065 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,710 did for the community at large in 1066 00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:48,280 Minnesota was 1067 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,250 very interesting. So it's not just the 1068 00:44:50,250 --> 00:44:52,120 two congregations that brought their 1069 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:52,690 children 1070 00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:55,990 together but other Lutherans from around 1071 00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:59,360 also began to take their children to that 1072 00:44:59,360 --> 00:44:59,930 very 1073 00:44:59,930 --> 00:45:02,660 congregation and for example I am one of 1074 00:45:02,660 --> 00:45:05,360 them. So I worship at the very different 1075 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:06,370 congregation 1076 00:45:06,370 --> 00:45:09,400 the Jehovah Lutheran Church in St. Paul 1077 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,600 whereas I take my children to this church 1078 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:13,410 because 1079 00:45:13,410 --> 00:45:16,210 that is where my children felt at home 1080 00:45:16,210 --> 00:45:18,980 and I have three children who kept on 1081 00:45:18,980 --> 00:45:19,710 telling 1082 00:45:19,710 --> 00:45:21,410 me for the last six seven years 1083 00:45:21,410 --> 00:45:23,550 especially reminding me again and again 1084 00:45:23,550 --> 00:45:24,350 that they're 1085 00:45:24,350 --> 00:45:27,290 American kids and they're not African 1086 00:45:27,290 --> 00:45:30,420 they are American and that they are more 1087 00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:31,290 American 1088 00:45:32,220 --> 00:45:35,160 than you know what you know than 1089 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,400 Ethiopian or than American in every 1090 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,370 sense. Even though 1091 00:45:40,370 --> 00:45:42,970 I and my wife worship in the Ethiopian 1092 00:45:42,970 --> 00:45:45,670 congregation in Amharic language and my 1093 00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:46,910 kids are always 1094 00:45:46,910 --> 00:45:49,370 annoyed when we tell them that that is 1095 00:45:49,370 --> 00:45:51,880 where we are going. But whenever we say 1096 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:52,780 we're going 1097 00:45:52,780 --> 00:45:56,080 to St. Michael they're always very 1098 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,920 excited. So this is just my own example 1099 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:01,490 but there are 1100 00:46:01,490 --> 00:46:04,560 many in Minnesota that are taking their 1101 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,630 children to this very church even though 1102 00:46:07,630 --> 00:46:08,430 they're 1103 00:46:09,390 --> 00:46:12,930 a member of a different congregation as 1104 00:46:12,930 --> 00:46:16,440 well. So that is working and I think if 1105 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:17,540 we are to 1106 00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:21,040 duplicate the same culture in our own 1107 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,910 context as well and that really works 1108 00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:25,140 because based 1109 00:46:25,740 --> 00:46:29,080 on my experience now living in the United 1110 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,580 States for about 14 years now and I would 1111 00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:35,890 say you know we pay a lot of attention or 1112 00:46:35,890 --> 00:46:39,090 we take a lot of time in trying to bring 1113 00:46:39,090 --> 00:46:39,560 the 1114 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,660 first generation into our church in order 1115 00:46:42,660 --> 00:46:45,000 to grow our church into being a 1116 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,130 multi-ethnic 1117 00:46:46,130 --> 00:46:49,470 or multi-cultural and for the most part 1118 00:46:49,470 --> 00:46:52,600 that won't work. And I'm sorry to say 1119 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:53,540 that but 1120 00:46:53,540 --> 00:46:56,210 that is really a struggle and I don't see 1121 00:46:56,210 --> 00:46:58,710 that working almost in Minnesota and in 1122 00:46:58,710 --> 00:46:59,140 many 1123 00:46:59,140 --> 00:47:02,210 states as well based on my conversation. 1124 00:47:02,210 --> 00:47:05,020 Now the reason why that won't work is 1125 00:47:05,020 --> 00:47:06,320 mainly because 1126 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,220 of culture and especially the issue of 1127 00:47:09,220 --> 00:47:12,020 language but that my friend here have 1128 00:47:12,020 --> 00:47:13,330 already talked 1129 00:47:13,330 --> 00:47:16,200 about. So the first generation Ethiopians 1130 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,860 and Nigerians and Koreans and Hispanic 1131 00:47:18,860 --> 00:47:19,260 and 1132 00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:21,400 everyone they want to worship in their 1133 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,400 own language and that is fine and it 1134 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:24,070 works for 1135 00:47:24,070 --> 00:47:27,070 the first generation and there is not 1136 00:47:27,070 --> 00:47:29,980 nothing wrong with that. But when it 1137 00:47:29,980 --> 00:47:31,210 comes to the 1138 00:47:31,210 --> 00:47:33,780 second and the third generation that is 1139 00:47:33,780 --> 00:47:36,280 where our focus have to be and I think 1140 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,020 they are 1141 00:47:37,020 --> 00:47:40,050 also the future of the church and if we 1142 00:47:40,050 --> 00:47:42,590 envision for the Lutheran Church, 1143 00:47:42,590 --> 00:47:44,090 Missouri Synod, to grow 1144 00:47:44,090 --> 00:47:47,460 into being multi-cultural and I think 1145 00:47:47,460 --> 00:47:51,030 that is where our focus have to be. Now 1146 00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:51,860 and if 1147 00:47:51,860 --> 00:47:55,400 we focus on that then we will have the 1148 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,600 future. Now but there is a problem 1149 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,270 related to that 1150 00:48:00,270 --> 00:48:03,440 which I will talk about in just a moment 1151 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,110 but before that, now there is also 1152 00:48:06,110 --> 00:48:07,280 another area 1153 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,350 where I found a very interesting you know 1154 00:48:10,350 --> 00:48:13,250 the thing that is working in that is in 1155 00:48:13,250 --> 00:48:14,220 Rochester, 1156 00:48:14,820 --> 00:48:17,590 Minnesota whereby pastors and leaders of 1157 00:48:17,590 --> 00:48:19,930 different congregations are coming 1158 00:48:19,930 --> 00:48:21,260 together to have 1159 00:48:21,260 --> 00:48:25,700 VBS over the summer and that is basically 1160 00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:29,970 having Sunday schools and Bible studies 1161 00:48:29,970 --> 00:48:30,700 with 1162 00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:32,940 different activities for the youth and 1163 00:48:32,940 --> 00:48:35,070 children over the summer. And I found 1164 00:48:35,070 --> 00:48:36,240 that to be really 1165 00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:38,980 interesting as well and I see how that is 1166 00:48:38,980 --> 00:48:41,310 working and I really appreciate the 1167 00:48:41,310 --> 00:48:41,980 efforts 1168 00:48:41,980 --> 00:48:44,620 from the church from different cultures 1169 00:48:44,620 --> 00:48:47,320 and so on to try to do that. But my wish 1170 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:48,190 and prayer 1171 00:48:48,190 --> 00:48:51,090 and also my advice for them is to do it 1172 00:48:51,090 --> 00:48:54,030 always not just the summer, not wait for 1173 00:48:54,030 --> 00:48:54,990 the summer 1174 00:48:54,990 --> 00:48:57,730 but try to do it all I mean throughout 1175 00:48:57,730 --> 00:49:00,630 the year and also to shift into you know 1176 00:49:00,630 --> 00:49:01,500 the whole 1177 00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:05,240 program into you know to reflect on how 1178 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,970 this will help those churches grow into 1179 00:49:08,970 --> 00:49:11,280 being multi-cultural. 1180 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,750 Now with that the other thing that I also 1181 00:49:15,750 --> 00:49:18,980 see happening in Minnesota is that the 1182 00:49:18,980 --> 00:49:19,990 immigrant 1183 00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:22,960 churches are really really growing in a 1184 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,990 very large number. Now if I give you one 1185 00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:26,760 example 1186 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,930 now the Ethiopian Lutheran churches in 1187 00:49:29,930 --> 00:49:33,100 Minnesota now there are seven Lutheran 1188 00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:34,330 churches and 1189 00:49:34,330 --> 00:49:36,940 four of them now own their own church 1190 00:49:36,940 --> 00:49:39,810 building very very large and each of them 1191 00:49:39,810 --> 00:49:40,640 have over 1192 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,210 300 members worshiping in that 1193 00:49:43,210 --> 00:49:46,580 congregation and they have continued to 1194 00:49:46,580 --> 00:49:48,310 grow as well. Now 1195 00:49:48,310 --> 00:49:51,050 throughout the states now there are 16 1196 00:49:51,050 --> 00:49:53,790 Amharic speaking Lutheran churches all 1197 00:49:53,790 --> 00:49:55,090 organized under 1198 00:49:55,090 --> 00:49:57,320 the Lutheran church Missouri Synod and 1199 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,390 over 30 Oromo speaking and I'm just 1200 00:49:59,390 --> 00:50:00,360 talking about 1201 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,130 only Ethiopians in the United States 1202 00:50:03,130 --> 00:50:06,130 Lutheran Ethiopians so over 30 you know 1203 00:50:06,130 --> 00:50:07,470 Oromo speaking 1204 00:50:07,470 --> 00:50:10,470 Lutheran churches all over the states so 1205 00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:13,340 I can see the growth that is happening 1206 00:50:13,340 --> 00:50:13,940 among 1207 00:50:13,940 --> 00:50:16,810 the immigrant Lutheran churches in 1208 00:50:16,810 --> 00:50:20,150 America and if we are to engage them and 1209 00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:21,350 incorporate 1210 00:50:21,350 --> 00:50:24,180 them into our church and into what we 1211 00:50:24,180 --> 00:50:27,320 call the Lutheran church in in the United 1212 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:27,990 States 1213 00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:31,660 and I think they are the future. Now 1214 00:50:31,660 --> 00:50:35,490 lastly I just want to focus on the the 1215 00:50:35,490 --> 00:50:36,730 challenge 1216 00:50:36,730 --> 00:50:39,330 and the problems that I have that I have 1217 00:50:39,330 --> 00:50:41,670 encountered and that I have heard my 1218 00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:43,170 friends and and talk 1219 00:50:43,170 --> 00:50:46,570 about from not only the African leaders 1220 00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:49,880 and other Hispanics and and the mangan 1221 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:50,680 friend 1222 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,480 other friends that I have in the 1223 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,750 immigrant communities but also my own 1224 00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:58,250 white you know 1225 00:50:58,250 --> 00:51:01,450 pastors and friends and leaders and how 1226 00:51:01,450 --> 00:51:04,660 they talk about the challenges that are 1227 00:51:04,660 --> 00:51:05,490 that we 1228 00:51:05,490 --> 00:51:09,230 are facing in the Minnesota context which 1229 00:51:09,230 --> 00:51:13,170 I think are quite similar in other states 1230 00:51:13,170 --> 00:51:16,840 as well. And one of the challenge is of 1231 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,510 course the the question of language and 1232 00:51:20,510 --> 00:51:21,640 how to to 1233 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,840 address the issue of of language how to 1234 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,080 work with that. So the first generation 1235 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:29,080 as I said 1236 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,080 they want to worship in their own 1237 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,120 language and that is fine and some 1238 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,320 congregations are 1239 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,360 trying to address that by by having like 1240 00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,060 English language and teaching English 1241 00:51:42,060 --> 00:51:43,460 language in 1242 00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:46,360 their own congregations and that is quite 1243 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,200 fine as well but I see a lot of emphasis 1244 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:49,570 on 1245 00:51:49,570 --> 00:51:52,570 the first generation as much as I try to 1246 00:51:52,570 --> 00:51:55,610 shift their attention towards the second 1247 00:51:55,610 --> 00:51:56,370 and the 1248 00:51:56,370 --> 00:51:58,610 third generation but that tension is 1249 00:51:58,610 --> 00:52:01,080 given too much into the first generation 1250 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,310 and incorporating 1251 00:52:02,310 --> 00:52:05,750 that into into their church and how that 1252 00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:09,120 works. But with that now there are some 1253 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:10,490 congregations 1254 00:52:10,490 --> 00:52:12,920 that managed to bring in some first 1255 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,790 generations into worshiping with them but 1256 00:52:15,790 --> 00:52:16,760 that didn't 1257 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,560 take that long before those first 1258 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,830 generation left the church and went to 1259 00:52:22,830 --> 00:52:24,270 join their own 1260 00:52:24,270 --> 00:52:26,670 people of their their own ethnic groups 1261 00:52:26,670 --> 00:52:29,170 and and be part of a different church and 1262 00:52:29,170 --> 00:52:29,640 those 1263 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,650 were mainly because of how we do church 1264 00:52:33,650 --> 00:52:37,620 and and and and you know the way we try 1265 00:52:37,620 --> 00:52:39,350 to incorporate 1266 00:52:39,350 --> 00:52:41,650 others because we on the one hand at 1267 00:52:41,650 --> 00:52:44,260 least in the Minnesota context and what I 1268 00:52:44,260 --> 00:52:45,020 hear from 1269 00:52:45,020 --> 00:52:48,430 the African friends that try to just join 1270 00:52:48,430 --> 00:52:51,600 and be part of the first generation or 1271 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:52,130 the 1272 00:52:52,130 --> 00:52:54,070 local church there and these are the 1273 00:52:54,070 --> 00:52:56,170 first generation immigrants from Africa 1274 00:52:56,170 --> 00:52:56,800 and other 1275 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,070 places as well. What they have told me is 1276 00:53:00,070 --> 00:53:03,240 that the churches are so much interested 1277 00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:03,640 in 1278 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,980 in those immigrants adapting the local 1279 00:53:05,980 --> 00:53:08,280 culture and the language and so on and 1280 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:09,510 that is basically 1281 00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:12,980 trying to you know enforcing you know for 1282 00:53:12,980 --> 00:53:16,320 these immigrants to assimilate into the 1283 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,160 culture 1284 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,560 rather than recognizing the differences 1285 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,900 and and also you know the plurality of 1286 00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:25,400 those cultures 1287 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,700 and recognizing them as they are and and 1288 00:53:28,700 --> 00:53:32,000 and considering their congregation as as 1289 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,410 a congregation 1290 00:53:33,410 --> 00:53:35,710 that is well that welcomes all these 1291 00:53:35,710 --> 00:53:38,380 different cultures and so on. So for them 1292 00:53:38,380 --> 00:53:39,210 to be part 1293 00:53:39,210 --> 00:53:41,650 of those churches they had to adapt and 1294 00:53:41,650 --> 00:53:44,050 assimilate into the culture and just be 1295 00:53:44,050 --> 00:53:45,120 like everybody 1296 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,420 else and that is what they didn't like to 1297 00:53:48,420 --> 00:53:51,420 see so they had to leave and so on. I 1298 00:53:51,420 --> 00:53:52,090 think 1299 00:53:52,090 --> 00:53:55,260 that is a tendency in in other in many 1300 00:53:55,260 --> 00:53:58,500 other states as well. Now when it comes 1301 00:53:58,500 --> 00:53:59,830 to the second 1302 00:53:59,830 --> 00:54:01,830 service of the second generation 1303 00:54:01,830 --> 00:54:04,340 immigrants and working with them and now 1304 00:54:04,340 --> 00:54:05,700 I I really struggle 1305 00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:08,340 to talk about this whether whether I 1306 00:54:08,340 --> 00:54:11,180 should talk about it in in public like 1307 00:54:11,180 --> 00:54:12,210 this or not 1308 00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:16,580 but I'm going to say it anyways because 1309 00:54:16,580 --> 00:54:20,190 sometimes we need to talk about what we 1310 00:54:20,190 --> 00:54:21,920 know the reality 1311 00:54:22,090 --> 00:54:26,930 even though it hurts in in in some ways. 1312 00:54:26,930 --> 00:54:31,560 Now the other thing that I have heard 1313 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:32,900 from one 1314 00:54:32,900 --> 00:54:35,170 person who did a lot of research on 1315 00:54:35,170 --> 00:54:37,840 second generation immigrants is Ethiopian 1316 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:38,640 immigrant 1317 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,010 here published a book and and he works 1318 00:54:41,010 --> 00:54:42,970 with a lot of congregations and 1319 00:54:42,970 --> 00:54:44,040 especially the 1320 00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,080 second generation congregations and you 1321 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,410 know that are going into being 1322 00:54:49,410 --> 00:54:50,920 multi-ethnic and 1323 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,050 and so on and a few other you know 1324 00:54:54,050 --> 00:54:57,290 pastors in different states as well 1325 00:54:57,290 --> 00:54:59,160 whereby they told 1326 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,830 me that the reason that the reason that 1327 00:55:01,830 --> 00:55:04,560 they were told by the host congregations 1328 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:05,330 that why 1329 00:55:05,330 --> 00:55:08,100 they don't want to mix their children 1330 00:55:08,100 --> 00:55:10,870 with with the immigrants is basically 1331 00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:11,940 because the 1332 00:55:11,940 --> 00:55:14,770 local congregations thought or they think 1333 00:55:14,770 --> 00:55:17,280 that that will result in interracial 1334 00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:18,040 marriage 1335 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,450 eventually and that is what they want to 1336 00:55:21,450 --> 00:55:24,720 avoid as much as possible. So no mixing 1337 00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:25,580 because 1338 00:55:25,580 --> 00:55:27,950 that might result in dating and then and 1339 00:55:27,950 --> 00:55:30,290 then marriage interracial marriage which 1340 00:55:30,290 --> 00:55:31,020 they want 1341 00:55:31,020 --> 00:55:34,860 to avoid by every in in in every sense. 1342 00:55:34,860 --> 00:55:38,560 That is why I think that is becoming a 1343 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:39,660 struggle 1344 00:55:39,660 --> 00:55:42,630 in in different states whenever we talk 1345 00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:45,670 about you know the second generation and 1346 00:55:45,670 --> 00:55:47,110 third generation 1347 00:55:47,340 --> 00:55:50,010 ministry but interestingly those kids are 1348 00:55:50,010 --> 00:55:52,310 going to the same school and they're 1349 00:55:52,310 --> 00:55:52,980 playing 1350 00:55:52,980 --> 00:55:56,550 on the field together. They are together 1351 00:55:56,550 --> 00:55:59,780 except for the church and that is my 1352 00:55:59,780 --> 00:56:01,120 surprise and 1353 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,120 and why what are we trying to avoid here 1354 00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,060 and why why is the church you know like 1355 00:56:07,060 --> 00:56:07,960 like this 1356 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,130 and that is what I really don't 1357 00:56:11,130 --> 00:56:15,070 understand. So and and the other thing 1358 00:56:15,070 --> 00:56:17,300 that I also I think 1359 00:56:17,340 --> 00:56:20,970 that I also found somewhat problematic 1360 00:56:20,970 --> 00:56:24,580 for for some of these churches is with 1361 00:56:24,580 --> 00:56:25,440 regard 1362 00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,680 to who who takes the lead in the church 1363 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,620 and they want like for the Africans 1364 00:56:31,620 --> 00:56:32,680 especially 1365 00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,950 or the immigrants they want to see 1366 00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:37,320 somebody that looks like them in the 1367 00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:38,420 leadership and 1368 00:56:38,420 --> 00:56:42,130 also taking the lead in in in some ways 1369 00:56:42,130 --> 00:56:45,800 but the leadership and you know most of 1370 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,300 the struggles 1371 00:56:47,330 --> 00:56:49,830 and the structure is already taken over 1372 00:56:49,830 --> 00:56:52,140 by the local churches especially the 1373 00:56:52,140 --> 00:56:53,170 white friends 1374 00:56:53,170 --> 00:56:56,610 and pastors and leaders that we have and 1375 00:56:56,610 --> 00:56:59,480 there is no space for for the the 1376 00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:00,850 immigrants to 1377 00:57:00,850 --> 00:57:03,350 be part of that and that is also 1378 00:57:03,350 --> 00:57:06,420 hindering you know for further progress 1379 00:57:06,420 --> 00:57:07,650 and so on. So 1380 00:57:07,650 --> 00:57:10,890 I think I need to stop here but. You got 1381 00:57:10,890 --> 00:57:13,830 the message. Thank you. Thank you so 1382 00:57:13,830 --> 00:57:14,460 much. 1383 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:28,410 I'd like to thank you Pastor Lee, Pastor 1384 00:57:28,410 --> 00:57:32,110 Novelli and Dr. Deressa. I think we have 1385 00:57:32,110 --> 00:57:33,240 questions 1386 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:37,520 Steven so let's start with the questions 1387 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:41,790 then please. This looks like it's mainly 1388 00:57:41,790 --> 00:57:42,750 to Dr. 1389 00:57:42,750 --> 00:57:45,360 Lee. How often do we see the blending of 1390 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,030 animism with Christian beliefs within the 1391 00:57:48,030 --> 00:57:48,660 greater 1392 00:57:48,660 --> 00:57:55,830 Hmong community? How is that handled 1393 00:57:55,830 --> 00:58:03,370 mercifully? How often do do we see the 1394 00:58:03,370 --> 00:58:07,750 blending of animism 1395 00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:10,350 with Christian belief within the greater 1396 00:58:10,350 --> 00:58:13,020 Hmong community and when that happens how 1397 00:58:13,020 --> 00:58:13,590 do you 1398 00:58:13,590 --> 00:58:17,720 handle it mercifully? Okay good question. 1399 00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:22,060 That actually happens a lot. It happens a 1400 00:58:22,060 --> 00:58:27,700 lot. I got a lot of questions. No that's 1401 00:58:27,700 --> 00:58:33,340 a good question. Oh can I turn it on? Oh 1402 00:58:33,340 --> 00:58:34,470 okay. 1403 00:58:35,710 --> 00:58:38,340 I pushed it up. I know how to push the 1404 00:58:38,340 --> 00:58:41,080 button too. That's a good question that 1405 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:41,850 you know 1406 00:58:41,850 --> 00:58:44,150 when when the the Hmong animist believe 1407 00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:46,350 you know a lot of things kind of like 1408 00:58:46,350 --> 00:58:47,190 just slides 1409 00:58:47,190 --> 00:58:51,160 over right and and I know that but when 1410 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,390 it does happen we make that that 1411 00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:56,130 transition and 1412 00:58:56,130 --> 00:59:01,230 people often sometimes might use that 1413 00:59:01,230 --> 00:59:06,740 same practice. For example someone might 1414 00:59:06,740 --> 00:59:08,110 some of 1415 00:59:08,110 --> 00:59:11,380 us have like good luck charms. Some of us 1416 00:59:11,380 --> 00:59:14,550 might carry a lucky coin. You might have 1417 00:59:14,550 --> 00:59:15,080 your 1418 00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,750 lucky socks. All these different things 1419 00:59:18,750 --> 00:59:22,190 that they have these good luck charms 1420 00:59:22,190 --> 00:59:23,320 that they 1421 00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:27,860 might want to bring over and we have to 1422 00:59:27,860 --> 00:59:32,600 explain that that does not work. And then 1423 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:34,100 it's okay. 1424 00:59:34,370 --> 00:59:37,270 Well then what about the Bible? Can I put 1425 00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:40,140 it under my pillow right? What about the 1426 00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:40,770 cross? 1427 00:59:40,970 --> 00:59:42,940 You know if I have a bad dream should I 1428 00:59:42,940 --> 00:59:44,910 stick it under my pillow to protect me? 1429 00:59:44,910 --> 00:59:45,680 And so these 1430 00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,910 are the conversations that I would have 1431 00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:50,250 to have with people. You know it says yes 1432 00:59:50,250 --> 00:59:50,550 it 1433 00:59:50,550 --> 00:59:53,820 is the word of God and and and it is you 1434 00:59:53,820 --> 00:59:57,320 know the cross and it's a symbol but what 1435 00:59:57,990 --> 01:00:01,130 protects you is God. And then come 1436 01:00:01,130 --> 01:00:04,730 knowing that they come from a spiritual 1437 01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:05,930 background 1438 01:00:06,500 --> 01:00:09,470 then I would say well that the Spirit of 1439 01:00:09,470 --> 01:00:12,370 God is the one that lives in you and if 1440 01:00:12,370 --> 01:00:13,340 the Spirit 1441 01:00:13,340 --> 01:00:16,010 of God lives in you then there's nothing 1442 01:00:16,010 --> 01:00:18,540 else that can hurt you because God the 1443 01:00:18,540 --> 01:00:19,340 Father is 1444 01:00:19,340 --> 01:00:22,480 the creator of all things and so if there 1445 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,550 are any evil spirits that you think that 1446 01:00:25,550 --> 01:00:26,080 it's 1447 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,890 trying to hurt you they cannot because 1448 01:00:28,890 --> 01:00:31,790 that same spirit is the ultimate spirit 1449 01:00:31,790 --> 01:00:32,590 and that 1450 01:00:32,590 --> 01:00:35,230 lives in you. So these are the things 1451 01:00:35,230 --> 01:00:38,000 that that I know that comes over. These 1452 01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:38,930 are things 1453 01:00:38,930 --> 01:00:41,400 that the mindset of the people and I've 1454 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,040 dealt with it long enough to where I know 1455 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:44,600 what I 1456 01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:46,500 need to I already know what they're going 1457 01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:48,210 to say before they say it how about that? 1458 01:00:49,610 --> 01:00:52,310 And so that's why catechism for this 1459 01:00:52,310 --> 01:00:55,250 group of people takes six, eight, nine, 1460 01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:56,450 twelve months 1461 01:00:56,450 --> 01:00:58,050 you know depending on on the family 1462 01:00:58,050 --> 01:00:59,880 because they don't just come by one at a 1463 01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:00,490 time right 1464 01:01:00,490 --> 01:01:02,290 when they come they come you know 1465 01:01:02,290 --> 01:01:04,420 families at a time you know groups at a 1466 01:01:04,420 --> 01:01:05,460 time. So there's 1467 01:01:05,460 --> 01:01:07,860 a lot of catechesis that we have to go 1468 01:01:07,860 --> 01:01:10,060 through. Thanks for the question. 1469 01:01:13,330 --> 01:01:16,070 As we engage in ministry within context 1470 01:01:16,070 --> 01:01:18,470 where multiple nearby non-lutheran 1471 01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:19,600 congregations 1472 01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,240 serve specific groups and languages for 1473 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,740 example Hispanic congregations rather 1474 01:01:24,740 --> 01:01:25,910 than competing 1475 01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:27,850 how can an LCMS congregation 1476 01:01:27,850 --> 01:01:30,720 intentionally partner with these churches 1477 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,080 serving different 1478 01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,150 ethnic groups? What models of 1479 01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:36,750 collaborative ministry emerge in such 1480 01:01:36,750 --> 01:01:37,590 contexts? 1481 01:01:42,330 --> 01:01:45,200 How did you know that question for me? So 1482 01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:48,000 let me let me rewrite it here in the app 1483 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:48,370 so 1484 01:01:48,370 --> 01:01:50,400 I can understand a little bit the 1485 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,940 question. As we engage in ministry within 1486 01:01:52,940 --> 01:01:53,910 context where 1487 01:01:53,910 --> 01:01:55,270 multiple nearby non-lutheran 1488 01:01:55,270 --> 01:01:56,940 congregations serve specific people 1489 01:01:56,940 --> 01:01:58,040 groups and languages 1490 01:01:58,610 --> 01:02:01,310 for example Hispanic congregations rather 1491 01:02:01,310 --> 01:02:03,310 than competing how can an LCMS 1492 01:02:03,310 --> 01:02:04,280 congregation 1493 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,980 intentionally partner with these churches 1494 01:02:06,980 --> 01:02:09,420 what models of collaborative ministry 1495 01:02:09,420 --> 01:02:10,020 emerge 1496 01:02:10,020 --> 01:02:14,760 in such contexts? Great question because 1497 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:19,400 it's real. When I have to say that part 1498 01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,770 of my theological 1499 01:02:21,770 --> 01:02:24,840 training and pastoral formation happened 1500 01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,740 down in Venezuela and then I finish up 1501 01:02:27,740 --> 01:02:28,870 here through 1502 01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:31,480 a program that was not designed for the 1503 01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,850 Hispanic ministry. I started here in 1504 01:02:33,850 --> 01:02:35,110 America with the 1505 01:02:35,110 --> 01:02:39,280 SMP context and then I moved to the CHS. 1506 01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:43,120 So I was never trained to do Hispanic 1507 01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:44,290 ministry 1508 01:02:44,290 --> 01:02:46,190 in the context of the United States of 1509 01:02:46,190 --> 01:02:48,190 America and they and there were a lot of 1510 01:02:48,190 --> 01:02:48,930 things that 1511 01:02:48,930 --> 01:02:52,300 I had to learn in both ways because I was 1512 01:02:52,300 --> 01:02:55,600 coming to be also an Anglo pastor for my 1513 01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:56,330 church 1514 01:02:56,330 --> 01:02:59,370 and I needed to learn a bunch of stuff of 1515 01:02:59,370 --> 01:03:02,040 the Anglo culture and one thing that 1516 01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:02,710 really 1517 01:03:02,710 --> 01:03:05,380 helped me is going to meetings having a 1518 01:03:05,380 --> 01:03:07,910 lot of coffee with a lot of community 1519 01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:08,580 leaders 1520 01:03:08,580 --> 01:03:10,650 from older groups who were already in the 1521 01:03:10,650 --> 01:03:12,650 field for many years and we should never 1522 01:03:12,650 --> 01:03:12,880 be 1523 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,490 afraid of doing that. A block away from 1524 01:03:16,490 --> 01:03:20,020 Grace there is a Roman Catholic Church 1525 01:03:20,020 --> 01:03:21,590 and the priest 1526 01:03:21,590 --> 01:03:25,000 is from my hometown and he has been one 1527 01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,300 of my best friends let me tell you. We 1528 01:03:28,300 --> 01:03:29,370 have been 1529 01:03:29,370 --> 01:03:31,970 doing things together in the community a 1530 01:03:31,970 --> 01:03:34,570 bunch of times but spending time with my 1531 01:03:34,570 --> 01:03:35,670 Roman Catholic 1532 01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:39,140 friend from Maracaibo Venezuela, believe 1533 01:03:39,140 --> 01:03:42,550 me, it was helpful to learn where I was 1534 01:03:42,550 --> 01:03:43,310 coming 1535 01:03:43,310 --> 01:03:46,180 from and to never forget where I'm you 1536 01:03:46,180 --> 01:03:47,990 know what I was doing. 1537 01:03:52,490 --> 01:03:54,190 And there's another question for you 1538 01:03:54,190 --> 01:03:55,730 Pastor Barry. Oh really? How much 1539 01:03:55,730 --> 01:03:56,590 pushback do you 1540 01:03:56,590 --> 01:04:00,360 get from Anglo members who no doubt feel 1541 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:04,100 like they're losing their church? Ooooh. 1542 01:04:04,100 --> 01:04:05,070 All the 1543 01:04:05,070 --> 01:04:08,640 pushback from the world. That's hard. 1544 01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:12,540 That question should be for my wife. She 1545 01:04:12,540 --> 01:04:13,410 should 1546 01:04:13,410 --> 01:04:16,650 be here answering this because yes, 1547 01:04:16,650 --> 01:04:20,280 couple of boards, meetings, elders, and 1548 01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:21,590 groups, and 1549 01:04:21,590 --> 01:04:26,890 of course meetings came back home crying. 1550 01:04:26,890 --> 01:04:31,700 And it's tough. How much pushback did 1551 01:04:31,700 --> 01:04:32,730 Jesus 1552 01:04:32,730 --> 01:04:35,970 had in his ministry? Well not Jesus. How 1553 01:04:35,970 --> 01:04:38,700 much pushback did the apostle had? 1554 01:04:38,700 --> 01:04:40,000 Remember that 1555 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,740 issue with the Greeks and the Jewish 1556 01:04:44,740 --> 01:04:49,750 ladies and everything? So yes, all the 1557 01:04:49,750 --> 01:04:51,580 pushback in 1558 01:04:51,580 --> 01:04:55,120 the church, time, forgiveness, all that 1559 01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,560 has to take place. And keeping in mind 1560 01:04:58,560 --> 01:04:59,360 that's 1561 01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,460 not in my time that things will happen, 1562 01:05:01,460 --> 01:05:03,590 it's always in God's timing and we have 1563 01:05:03,590 --> 01:05:04,300 to respect 1564 01:05:04,300 --> 01:05:08,070 that and honor that. So sometimes I have 1565 01:05:08,070 --> 01:05:11,840 to go back still cry. But I believe that 1566 01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:12,700 in the 1567 01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:15,640 congregation maybe they don't like the 1568 01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,680 way we do things but they know that the 1569 01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:19,610 intention 1570 01:05:19,610 --> 01:05:23,750 here is to bring Jesus to all people. 1571 01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:27,250 Question for any of you really. 1572 01:05:27,250 --> 01:05:30,090 Justification by grace 1573 01:05:30,090 --> 01:05:32,220 through faith is central to our Lutheran 1574 01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:34,230 confessions and is largely held by the 1575 01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:35,190 western church. 1576 01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,200 How is that teaching translated to a 1577 01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,430 people whose operative and cultural lens 1578 01:05:40,430 --> 01:05:41,170 comes from 1579 01:05:41,170 --> 01:05:43,330 the global east and the south? 1580 01:05:43,330 --> 01:05:46,170 Translating justification to the global 1581 01:05:46,170 --> 01:05:47,770 east and the south. 1582 01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:58,480 Yeah, what I would say here is our 1583 01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:05,060 Lutheran theology and the confessions, 1584 01:06:05,060 --> 01:06:07,460 and I don't 1585 01:06:07,460 --> 01:06:10,700 know where this question is coming from, 1586 01:06:10,700 --> 01:06:13,660 I'm trying to understand and how that 1587 01:06:13,660 --> 01:06:14,470 relates 1588 01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:18,340 to our discussion here. But what I can 1589 01:06:18,340 --> 01:06:22,510 say here is that our Lutheran confessions 1590 01:06:22,510 --> 01:06:23,110 and 1591 01:06:24,210 --> 01:06:26,780 our doctrine here, especially on 1592 01:06:26,780 --> 01:06:30,010 justification by grace through faith, as 1593 01:06:30,010 --> 01:06:31,620 it is central for 1594 01:06:31,620 --> 01:06:34,750 the westerners, is also central for 1595 01:06:34,750 --> 01:06:37,920 Lutherans globally. And there is no 1596 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:39,890 difference in that. 1597 01:06:39,890 --> 01:06:44,430 But what I, I don't know if I should 1598 01:06:44,430 --> 01:06:49,470 answer this question in a different way, 1599 01:06:49,470 --> 01:06:50,870 but what 1600 01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:54,710 I can say is that in some cases what I 1601 01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:58,740 observe is that because Lutherans in the 1602 01:06:58,740 --> 01:07:00,040 other part 1603 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:04,180 of the world worship differently, the 1604 01:07:04,180 --> 01:07:08,320 western Lutherans, and especially the 1605 01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:09,890 ones that I 1606 01:07:09,890 --> 01:07:12,520 know, are not Lutheran enough. And I've 1607 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,130 been told personally by my own friends 1608 01:07:15,130 --> 01:07:15,960 and a few 1609 01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,260 of them were my students and they became 1610 01:07:18,260 --> 01:07:20,430 pastors after they graduated from the 1611 01:07:20,430 --> 01:07:21,230 seminaries. 1612 01:07:22,130 --> 01:07:25,700 And a few of them, and I could sense from 1613 01:07:25,700 --> 01:07:29,110 their comments whereby I felt like they 1614 01:07:29,110 --> 01:07:29,740 were 1615 01:07:29,740 --> 01:07:32,280 saying, Ethiopians are not Lutheran 1616 01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,980 enough or Tanzanians are not Lutheran 1617 01:07:34,980 --> 01:07:35,980 enough. And 1618 01:07:35,980 --> 01:07:38,380 I turned the table around and it's like 1619 01:07:38,380 --> 01:07:40,850 probably the Ethiopians or Tanzanians are 1620 01:07:40,850 --> 01:07:41,520 thinking 1621 01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,090 of you the same way because you are 1622 01:07:45,090 --> 01:07:48,230 different. And I think having a 1623 01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:51,560 conversation and understanding 1624 01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,230 each other in some ways is better. So 1625 01:07:54,230 --> 01:07:57,000 what really makes us Lutheran and what 1626 01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:57,870 really is 1627 01:07:57,870 --> 01:08:00,600 essential in terms of defining our 1628 01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:03,910 identity as Lutherans and so on. And just 1629 01:08:03,910 --> 01:08:05,040 because the 1630 01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:07,580 Ethiopians don't use a hymn book and 1631 01:08:07,580 --> 01:08:10,310 they're just memorizing those hymns and 1632 01:08:10,310 --> 01:08:11,380 then singing 1633 01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,990 without using a hymn book, does that make 1634 01:08:15,990 --> 01:08:19,320 them different than other Lutherans? Or 1635 01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:19,720 do 1636 01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:22,190 we, it's like just because we here in 1637 01:08:22,190 --> 01:08:24,960 America use hymn books and other Africans 1638 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:25,830 and others 1639 01:08:25,830 --> 01:08:28,730 are not using it, so does that mean that 1640 01:08:28,730 --> 01:08:31,440 we are not Lutherans as Americans for 1641 01:08:31,440 --> 01:08:32,600 other people? 1642 01:08:33,500 --> 01:08:36,470 Or Lutheran enough because we are singing 1643 01:08:36,470 --> 01:08:39,380 from the book and when you use the book, 1644 01:08:39,380 --> 01:08:39,910 when 1645 01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:42,380 you sing for other Lutherans in other 1646 01:08:42,380 --> 01:08:45,180 parts of the world, it seems that you are 1647 01:08:45,180 --> 01:08:46,120 not serious 1648 01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,690 about your singing or whatever you do in 1649 01:08:49,690 --> 01:08:52,390 the church because it feels for them that 1650 01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:52,790 you 1651 01:08:52,790 --> 01:08:57,060 are being forced to read from the book. 1652 01:08:57,060 --> 01:09:01,230 And that is what I, you know, that was 1653 01:09:01,230 --> 01:09:02,470 the, you 1654 01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:05,040 know, that is what the Africans mostly 1655 01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:07,710 feel. So what really makes us Lutheran? 1656 01:09:07,710 --> 01:09:08,510 Is it our 1657 01:09:08,510 --> 01:09:11,710 practice in the church or is it our 1658 01:09:11,710 --> 01:09:15,480 common confession so to say? That is what 1659 01:09:15,480 --> 01:09:16,480 I really 1660 01:09:16,480 --> 01:09:19,180 want to say based on this question. The 1661 01:09:19,180 --> 01:09:21,920 justification by faith, by grace through 1662 01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:23,220 faith is central 1663 01:09:23,220 --> 01:09:25,690 to all Lutherans and that is what makes 1664 01:09:25,690 --> 01:09:26,660 us Lutherans. 1665 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,430 How do we minister to first generation 1666 01:09:37,430 --> 01:09:40,370 members in ways that make them feel less 1667 01:09:40,370 --> 01:09:41,270 erased? I 1668 01:09:41,270 --> 01:09:43,210 don't know if that is first generation 1669 01:09:43,210 --> 01:09:45,110 immigrants or other generations of the 1670 01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:46,040 church. I don't 1671 01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:47,110 know which way they are taking this 1672 01:09:47,110 --> 01:09:47,440 question. 1673 01:09:49,050 --> 01:09:50,280 Say the question again, sorry. 1674 01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,420 How do we minister to first generation 1675 01:09:53,420 --> 01:09:56,320 members in ways that make them feel less 1676 01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:57,020 erased? 1677 01:10:01,830 --> 01:10:05,030 I can answer that one. I have a lot of 1678 01:10:05,030 --> 01:10:07,930 experience with that one. The first 1679 01:10:07,930 --> 01:10:10,100 generation, and because 1680 01:10:10,700 --> 01:10:12,940 my experience is that we work with first, 1681 01:10:12,940 --> 01:10:14,970 second and third generation and now we 1682 01:10:14,970 --> 01:10:15,310 are 1683 01:10:15,310 --> 01:10:19,240 getting to the fourth generation. You 1684 01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:23,510 continue to serve their needs. You serve 1685 01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:25,020 their needs 1686 01:10:25,020 --> 01:10:27,350 the way that you have always served them. 1687 01:10:27,350 --> 01:10:29,420 Even if you start a second generation 1688 01:10:29,420 --> 01:10:29,990 English 1689 01:10:29,990 --> 01:10:33,520 speaking service, you continue to serve 1690 01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:37,060 the first generation needs the way that 1691 01:10:37,060 --> 01:10:38,060 you have 1692 01:10:38,060 --> 01:10:42,170 always been doing it. We have a church 1693 01:10:42,170 --> 01:10:46,370 right now in St. Paul which is an Anglo 1694 01:10:46,370 --> 01:10:47,470 church, 1695 01:10:47,810 --> 01:10:50,740 an aging Anglo church and they see the 1696 01:10:50,740 --> 01:10:53,610 writing on the wall. They say we only 1697 01:10:53,610 --> 01:10:54,980 have to do this 1698 01:10:55,010 --> 01:10:56,280 because we only have about five years 1699 01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:57,680 left in our savings and then we are going 1700 01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:58,020 to have 1701 01:10:58,020 --> 01:11:02,390 to close. We don't want to go down like 1702 01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:06,890 this. Do you have any ideas? I say yeah, 1703 01:11:06,890 --> 01:11:08,360 I actually 1704 01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:11,360 have a new Hmong congregation that just 1705 01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:14,370 planted about a year and a half ago and 1706 01:11:14,370 --> 01:11:15,900 they are actually 1707 01:11:15,900 --> 01:11:18,670 growing and their target is second and 1708 01:11:18,670 --> 01:11:21,570 third generation Hmong families that are 1709 01:11:21,570 --> 01:11:22,310 English 1710 01:11:22,310 --> 01:11:26,880 speaking. Would you like to partner up? 1711 01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:31,080 Now when they come in, their worship 1712 01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:32,350 style is 1713 01:11:32,350 --> 01:11:34,820 different, their audience is different, 1714 01:11:34,820 --> 01:11:37,350 but the pastor that we bring in, he will 1715 01:11:37,350 --> 01:11:37,790 take 1716 01:11:37,790 --> 01:11:40,620 care of you the way that you want, the 1717 01:11:40,620 --> 01:11:43,430 worship style that you still have and 1718 01:11:43,430 --> 01:11:44,830 your every needs 1719 01:11:44,830 --> 01:11:46,630 is going to be served the same except now 1720 01:11:46,630 --> 01:11:48,130 we are just going to have a second 1721 01:11:48,130 --> 01:11:48,570 service 1722 01:11:48,570 --> 01:11:52,170 with this group and you guys will merge 1723 01:11:52,170 --> 01:11:55,770 into one family. And so their needs and 1724 01:11:55,770 --> 01:11:56,970 everything 1725 01:11:56,970 --> 01:11:59,680 is still going to be the same. Their 1726 01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,380 existing pastor says when this group 1727 01:12:02,380 --> 01:12:03,810 comes in, I will 1728 01:12:03,810 --> 01:12:06,180 take a call somewhere else so that this 1729 01:12:06,180 --> 01:12:08,520 new Hmong pastor will take care of the 1730 01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:09,190 needs of 1731 01:12:09,190 --> 01:12:11,020 the first generation, but they have the 1732 01:12:11,020 --> 01:12:12,990 second service that will take care of the 1733 01:12:12,990 --> 01:12:13,420 second 1734 01:12:13,420 --> 01:12:15,790 and third generation. So the needs are 1735 01:12:15,790 --> 01:12:18,300 still there and we will still serve that 1736 01:12:18,300 --> 01:12:18,960 need. We 1737 01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:20,800 are not going to, just like if you got 1738 01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:22,670 your grandma, your grandpa, you are not 1739 01:12:22,670 --> 01:12:23,270 just going 1740 01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:24,840 to kick them to the curb, right? You are 1741 01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,370 still going to love them, you are still 1742 01:12:26,370 --> 01:12:26,800 going to 1743 01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:28,940 care for them for as long as you can 1744 01:12:28,940 --> 01:12:31,010 until the Lord takes them home. But 1745 01:12:31,010 --> 01:12:32,110 grandma, grandpa 1746 01:12:32,110 --> 01:12:34,350 is going to stick around. We are going to 1747 01:12:34,350 --> 01:12:36,010 care for them and love them. No 1748 01:12:36,010 --> 01:12:36,710 different. 1749 01:12:36,710 --> 01:12:38,620 And that is the way that we have to look 1750 01:12:38,620 --> 01:12:39,020 at it. 1751 01:12:43,620 --> 01:12:45,990 I think this was partially addressed in 1752 01:12:45,990 --> 01:12:48,390 the question on justification, but this 1753 01:12:48,390 --> 01:12:49,060 question 1754 01:12:49,060 --> 01:12:51,600 goes, how might we address forced 1755 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,600 homogeneity in our ministry to emerging 1756 01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:56,300 or appearing ethnic 1757 01:12:56,300 --> 01:13:00,170 groups inside of the Christian faith? Do 1758 01:13:00,170 --> 01:13:03,740 you want me to read it again? It is a 1759 01:13:03,740 --> 01:13:04,710 really, 1760 01:13:06,710 --> 01:13:10,550 really good question. Go ahead and say it 1761 01:13:10,550 --> 01:13:13,750 again. How might we address forced 1762 01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:15,050 homogeneity 1763 01:13:15,950 --> 01:13:19,520 in our ministry to emerging or appearing 1764 01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,790 ethnic groups inside of the Christian 1765 01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:24,130 faith? Okay. 1766 01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:30,470 How might we address forced being forced 1767 01:13:30,470 --> 01:13:35,640 to be one in a sense? I think that is a 1768 01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:36,570 good 1769 01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:45,050 question. That is a good question. And 1770 01:13:45,050 --> 01:13:49,150 that has happened quite often. The 1771 01:13:49,150 --> 01:13:50,990 challenge is 1772 01:13:50,990 --> 01:13:54,360 that you have the larger group, whether 1773 01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:57,930 it is ethnic or not, whether it is ethnic 1774 01:13:57,930 --> 01:13:58,360 or 1775 01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:00,130 not, it doesn't matter. But you have the 1776 01:14:00,130 --> 01:14:01,700 majority group and then you have the 1777 01:14:01,700 --> 01:14:02,470 minority group. 1778 01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:06,140 And it is always the majority group kind 1779 01:14:06,140 --> 01:14:08,910 of has more power over the minority 1780 01:14:08,910 --> 01:14:09,840 group. We 1781 01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:14,340 have that even across Anglo churches that 1782 01:14:14,340 --> 01:14:18,480 will merge together. In my experience, 1783 01:14:18,480 --> 01:14:19,150 you 1784 01:14:19,750 --> 01:14:21,720 get two churches that merge together. 1785 01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:23,890 They are both slowly aging, but when they 1786 01:14:23,890 --> 01:14:24,390 merge, 1787 01:14:24,590 --> 01:14:26,320 one is still going to have a little bit 1788 01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:28,130 more influence on the other. So how do we 1789 01:14:28,130 --> 01:14:28,560 do that 1790 01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:32,730 transaction in a way that is going to 1791 01:14:32,730 --> 01:14:37,000 honor everyone? And the answer is very 1792 01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:38,470 carefully. 1793 01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:43,170 We have to honor both groups, whether we 1794 01:14:43,170 --> 01:14:45,710 like it or not. Whether one group is the 1795 01:14:45,710 --> 01:14:46,410 dominant 1796 01:14:46,410 --> 01:14:49,350 and one group is not, we have to honor 1797 01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:52,120 both groups. And that takes a lot of 1798 01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:53,450 conversations, 1799 01:14:53,450 --> 01:14:55,950 open conversations, honest conversations. 1800 01:14:55,950 --> 01:14:58,090 And when I facilitate some of these 1801 01:14:58,090 --> 01:14:58,820 meetings, 1802 01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,290 I would tell people, I would say, you 1803 01:15:02,290 --> 01:15:05,460 have permission to speak openly and 1804 01:15:05,460 --> 01:15:07,000 honestly. This 1805 01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,170 is the moment to do it. Don't wait until 1806 01:15:09,170 --> 01:15:11,340 after this meeting and then say, well, I 1807 01:15:11,340 --> 01:15:11,840 didn't 1808 01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,140 like that. No, we need to speak openly 1809 01:15:14,140 --> 01:15:16,470 and honestly and this is the time to do 1810 01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:17,010 it and 1811 01:15:17,010 --> 01:15:19,210 you have permission to do it. Because if 1812 01:15:19,210 --> 01:15:21,480 you don't speak up now, then later on you 1813 01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:21,780 can 1814 01:15:21,780 --> 01:15:24,210 say, well, I didn't like that plan, but 1815 01:15:24,210 --> 01:15:26,420 they did anyway. But you didn't say 1816 01:15:26,420 --> 01:15:27,480 anything. It's 1817 01:15:27,480 --> 01:15:30,250 almost like taking a survey, speak 1818 01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:33,520 freely. And when you do that, if you can 1819 01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:34,420 do it in 1820 01:15:34,420 --> 01:15:36,360 a way that people are going to speak 1821 01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:38,500 freely and honor one another, because at 1822 01:15:38,500 --> 01:15:39,030 the end 1823 01:15:39,030 --> 01:15:43,030 of the day, when we get together and when 1824 01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:46,770 we do things well, who do we honor? We 1825 01:15:46,770 --> 01:15:47,570 honor 1826 01:15:47,570 --> 01:15:50,670 Christ. Ultimately, that is the goal, is 1827 01:15:50,670 --> 01:15:54,010 to honor Christ in everything that we do. 1828 01:15:54,310 --> 01:15:57,150 And if that is the goal and that is the 1829 01:15:57,150 --> 01:16:00,120 values that this congregation, this group 1830 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:00,920 is going 1831 01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,150 to work together, then if it fits into 1832 01:16:03,150 --> 01:16:05,420 these values that we want, then we can 1833 01:16:05,420 --> 01:16:06,360 move forward. 1834 01:16:08,430 --> 01:16:10,330 But you got to come up with who are you 1835 01:16:10,330 --> 01:16:12,330 going to honor and what are those values. 1836 01:16:12,330 --> 01:16:12,860 And once 1837 01:16:12,860 --> 01:16:15,130 you have that, then anything else that 1838 01:16:15,130 --> 01:16:17,400 doesn't line up with those values, you 1839 01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:18,300 won't do it. 1840 01:16:21,470 --> 01:16:22,340 That's my answer. 1841 01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:27,110 Please help me to thank our presenters, 1842 01:16:27,110 --> 01:16:28,650 folks. Thanks so much.