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Hello, I'm Kevin Golden, Dean of Theological Research and Publication at Concordia Seminary.

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Welcome to Concordia Theology.

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We're blessed today to spend some time with Dr. James Bauer, a emeritus member of our

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faculty here, formerly Dean of Chapel here at the Seminary as well.

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We're going to be chatting with him regarding a book that he recently published.

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It is entitled Music, God's Mysterious Gift.

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Dr. Bauer, good to have you with us today.

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Thank you, pleased to be here.

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So it might be helpful, you know, I know you well because I was a student of yours here

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at the Seminary.

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I remember sitting in class with you, seeing you regularly in the Chancellor as our Dean

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of Chapel, but some of our listeners may not know you quite as well.

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So tell us a little bit about yourself.

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Before you were here, you spent time also at Concordia Bronxville on the faculty there,

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is that correct?

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So they assigned me to Bronxville to teach Latin, Greek, and religion.

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And they had a bunch of openings four years later in the Music Department as people retired

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and they were starting to shift to preparing to prepare teachers for the church in a four-year

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school.

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So I moved over to the Music Department.

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And that's where your higher degrees are actually in.

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Not only did you do your Master of Divinity work, an STM I believe, but then you went

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on to get a Master's as well as a Doctoral degree in Music itself, correct?

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I studied at Union Seminary, Master of Sacred Music, and in 1972 when that school didn't

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want to do the program anymore, they took their endowment, walked up to Yale and said,

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can we do it here?

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It's now called the Yale Institute of Sacred Music.

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That's my alma mater.

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And then I did a PhD in Music at City University of New York where they used their 10 colleges

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faculty for doctoral programs.

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So you have a long-standing involvement with music not only on the academic side but also

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on the practitioner side.

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After all, you were an organist, you were Dean of Chapel, putting music to work.

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Well I was actually involved in parish life as the musician in parishes for about 20 to

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25 years.

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All right, all right.

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So you've got the practical side, you've got the academic side, and I would see that those

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two came together very nicely with this book that you recently published.

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So let's talk about that book specifically.

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Who did you have in mind when you were writing this book?

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I always ask that question.

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Mostly people who want to understand what music does and why we should be using it in

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the church.

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They often go at it with what do people like.

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That's one of the important discussions.

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Then what has been used in the past like the history of what churches have done and usually

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most people are limited to what they've been able to experience in their own life.

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So when they look at it they have kind of like this tunnel vision.

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And what I tried to do was to take if your curiosity went to what is this thing that

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God gave us to understand the science side.

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It's different than it was what we know about from the science side than when Luther pointed

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us to music as a good tool.

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And then just ask the question that Lutherans have to ask when they say what's the best

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practice.

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They need to ask what is the real command.

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That kind of discussion is hard to find.

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Most people talk from what's been done.

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Right, right.

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Now you had a lot packed in right there because on one hand this is just part of our heritage

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as Lutherans.

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We are known as a singing church.

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It's part of our heritage.

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Luther himself writing hymns.

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He himself speaks so powerfully about music and what happens through music.

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But also in this book you really get into the scientific side of that as far as what

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music accomplishes.

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And that's part of God's gift to us is how it works just scientifically.

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So what I'm writing at I'm thinking of this group sitting in a church.

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There's a pastor provided by God prepared to present the word.

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There's a musician to lead people to provide music to the event.

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And there are people who sit there and they can enjoy the sounds.

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They can enjoy the sounds elsewhere in life.

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So I'm looking at them.

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The listener, the musician, the pastor.

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So for who is this written?

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It's really written for the whole span of folk.

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And I noticed also as I read through the book that the progression of the chapters you kind

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of have this narrowing focus that happens along the way in the sense of you start off

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talking about hey music as a gift for the world as a whole.

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And then it gets into for the kingdom, for the church if you will.

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And then eventually you have it very specific to our own personal devotional use of music

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as well.

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Right.

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That's the design of the book.

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So for the average listener you can read those chapters on science and gain something.

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I think chapter four is the special chapter in the book that goes into the neurology side,

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what they've been discovering when they can do MRI on your brain and see where the activity

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is.

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They've discovered why music is so powerful.

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So the average listener then can benefit from understanding this.

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So I worked hard to translate it into a personal what happens to me presentation.

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Even though it's filled with all these technical studies.

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Now, and what you described there also is just reminiscent for me in my years as a parish

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pastor is that when visiting maybe for example homebound members.

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And one of the things that would really take hold of them is music.

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Those maybe who are in a retirement home, in a higher level of care, their mental capacity,

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their mental faculties are not as sharp as they once were.

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But you bring music in and you could see how they would light up just not only their face

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but also their thinking and would become all the more clear because of here's that science

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again about what music actually does to us.

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So what they discovered about the brain is when you have experience with music and you

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put it in your memory bank, it actually goes to many areas of the brain.

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The rhythm kind of goes to the front of the brain.

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The pitches in a melody get kind of remembered in another area.

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And if it's connected with a text, that involves speech areas.

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And to be distributed to the brain is to take apart what happened including where it happened,

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your first memory of it, and chunk it.

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That is put little pieces all over.

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For the person who at the end of life is losing memory short term, you actually get the person

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back with the memories that are attached to it when they experience it again.

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And I think this is a great opportunity to talk about both spectrums here as far as,

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hey, the person in the closing years of life and you get the person back by means of music

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and how it enlivens them.

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But also that speaks volumes to why music is such a tremendous gift in the early years

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of life as well.

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Because your music is helping those children set things into their mind in a variety of

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ways.

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Of course, I remember when I was in the parish and I would teach my confirmands about the

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role of music within the divine service.

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And one of the points I'd always make to them is, well, how did you learn your ABCs?

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Well, you learned it by singing.

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And sometimes if I need to remember my ABCs, what do I do?

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I start singing.

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It's just written.

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It's set into our minds that way.

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Same thing when it comes to hymnody and on down the line.

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It helps set the truths in our head.

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The liturgy sets the truth in our head.

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And that's a great gift for our children and all the way through life as well.

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That's why Luther was so keen to have children learn to read.

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Which before his time was not usual, to some did.

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And to be able to read the Bible.

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But then the songs, to carry it.

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Because it had this more powerful way of engaging the whole brain.

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So let's talk more about what you're doing in the book.

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So what would you say is kind of your big goal for this book?

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Well, it's kind of revealed in the title.

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And in our society, people are taught to be the king of choice.

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That is, they're the consumer.

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So the way you use everything in life, you choose the best version of raisins,

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if that's what you want.

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And you're the one that figures it out.

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The grocery store can't decide by just having one choice.

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Now we need an aisle for cereals that just goes on and on,

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much more than we'd ever need.

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So that's how we look even at music.

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The customer is always right.

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This is not how God set it up.

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Right.

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He had a few things to say about what's most important, like God is.

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And to assist and do things that are good for your body,

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for your health, for your children, your family.

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So this confuses us.

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So by backing up and looking at this thing as a gift,

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is to talk about it in a totally different way.

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That this comes from God, and therefore I need to pay attention to it.

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In a way that takes God into consideration.

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What do you want me to do with it?

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And that's totally different when we look at how people listen to music.

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They can do it on the internet and collect things from around the globe.

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Huge libraries of sound.

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And when they come to church, they think that's what you're going to do.

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Find something I like.

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We actually have to teach them.

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Right.

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That there's a different purpose.

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Yes.

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So in many ways, what you're doing is helping

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to show the elevated status that really music has.

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That it's not this kind of neutral thing that you can just kind of treat

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as a wax nose, but it actually is a divine gift, a gift given to us.

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And therefore, for a gift to be properly enjoyed, to be rightly enjoyed,

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to be fully enjoyed, you use it in accord with what the giver has given it for.

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Correct.

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In fact, that was Luther's statement about music that's outrageous.

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He said, we ought to think of music to be celebrated almost as

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much as the very word of God.

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Well, and that is a radical thing for him to say.

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But I think myself, it's also in accord with the very word of God

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for him to say such a thing.

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You think about how much of Holy Scripture tells us about the life

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to come, the depictions that we are given of eternal life,

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and how often music is an integral part of that.

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Whether it be the saints who have gone before us,

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and they are singing the new song of the Lamb,

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or also what's awaiting all of us at the return of Christ.

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And again, there is great depictions again of music that is taking place.

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So I think what Luther had in mind when he made that little summary

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of the worth of music, put it right next to the word of God,

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but less than the word, was when you use the two together,

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you are doing something that continues the work of God

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with the word going into the ear.

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But the music goes in the ear as well.

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He's thinking how you learn about God, and how you remember God,

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and how you can carry it with you in your mind.

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So that packaging of music with the word of God

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is the thing that he wanted people to be doing when they gathered.

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Which is why, of course, he is famous for him himself being a hymn writer

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with his great catechetical hymns and so many others as well.

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So it was a way to present God's word.

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The pastor presented it when he taught and preached.

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But the people also then encouraged each other.

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And so when you look into the New Testament

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and say, what are the commands?

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You can't find a particular word from Jesus that said, sing music.

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But you can find words that say, listen.

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Listen to my words.

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And then Paul, when he explains what's important in the gathering

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of Christians, is what builds up the other person.

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Now you come to Ephesians 5, Colossians 3.

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Where Paul explains it to a congregation,

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as you have all this thankfulness for what God gave you are the gifts.

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Salvation.

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You are, in a sense, speaking to God.

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You're thanksgiving.

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But because the ears of your neighbor are there,

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you're helping to build them up in the same manner

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that a pastor is building them up by teaching them the word.

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So it's the word and used by the spirit that's building up others.

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That's wonderful.

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That's the purpose and the highest purpose that you can have for music.

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So I think you're really helping focus us here on,

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as I think about the flow of the book again,

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the role of music within the kingdom.

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Building up the kingdom.

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Building up your brothers and sisters in Christ.

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If you can do that, you have, in a sense, observed the command.

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Your thankfulness for the gift that you've received from God

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and forgiveness of sins, life, salvation.

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And then you look at Revelation, other places.

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You're going to be doing what angels are doing.

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You kind of echo it here.

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It's not really an echo.

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But it's a kind of echo of what you're going to be doing later.

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When God gathers you with all the saints.

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A foretaste of what is to come.

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It's an experiencing at a ready.

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So you hear the echo, but you can't hear the real thing yet.

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Yeah.

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OK.

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All right, very good, very good.

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Now, how about since the last chapter of the book

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is focused in upon using music personally in your devotional life,

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what insights would you want to focus on?

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Well, I actually went beyond that.

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And I said, OK, so I'm a Christian who likes music.

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I enjoy it in all kinds of forms.

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So the first thing is, OK, so these sounds come.

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They have impact on my body, my mind, and I enjoy how they impact me.

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In fact, if I have a favorite piece,

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I'm thinking forward to hearing that particular section of the piece again.

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Then I hear it.

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Then as the piece goes on, I reflect on that.

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I get like a triple whammy from my favorite sound.

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Yeah.

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So that's a gift from God.

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And the second thing is when you're with others

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and they would like to hear sounds that are beneficial to them,

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that could be just orchestral piece, could be a song.

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Out of things that you know, you can share with them,

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you might consider this.

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And then you always ask, because hearing is an individual matter

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and people respond in different ways.

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That's in the science chapters.

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You'll focus it on what they find useful and not force what you think is perfect.

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Well, now, I think this maybe also is then

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an incredible thing for a pastor, a church musician to take hold of as well,

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because we all have our favorite hymns.

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We all have our favorite musical styles and such.

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But if instead of being driven by what do I like

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or what is my preference, being primarily driven by how do I best

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serve those sitting in the pew.

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So the first thing is that you can just enjoy it.

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And then when other people are with you, it's not just your enjoyment,

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but how are you serving them?

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And that's where the command kind of reorienting you

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from just being a consumer.

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Now, I'm helping somebody else.

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And that's when the transformed person of the gospel

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looks at the whole event in a different way.

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So when I sit and sing in the Sunday morning now,

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having finally figured this out at my advanced age,

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I'm thinking of singing to the other person as well as to God.

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Yes, yes.

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Well, it's much like when I confess the creed,

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I am doing a service to the people around me.

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Because what am I doing?

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I'm telling them who God is and what He has done for their benefit,

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for everyone's benefit, that He's created us, He's redeemed us,

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He sanctifies us through holy baptism and such.

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Same thing going on when hymns are being sung,

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when the liturgy is being brought forth,

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that we're filling each other's ears.

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And so it's a very loving action to be engaged in that.

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So that reorients you.

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And then for the self, there's a third point

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you can make that I can choose things that are beneficial

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to and improve or help my life.

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Now, obviously, I can choose things

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that help my faith life by going and using the text with the songs

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that strike me and encourage me in my faith

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and my observing God's commands, but also for certain activities.

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Some people find it difficult to have sound when they try to focus.

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Other people can use music or sound while they do something.

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So think of yourself exercising.

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You want to be enthused with the exercise,

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find something with a nice beat that fits with it,

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and you're encouraged to do it.

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Likewise, you can have sounds play while you're

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trying to focus and block out things that would distract you.

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So those who use various means to listen to music and such,

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I have my playlist that is my exercise playlist.

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And just like you said, it's upbeat, and it's

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something to push me forward and get me going.

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And then there's other playlists that I have that are far more what I would

316
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just call soothing, the kinds of things maybe I want to listen to

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as I'm getting ready to head to bed that just kind of calm

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and get me ready for a peaceful sleep.

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So that goes to the power of music and the patterns.

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And that's explored in some of the earlier chapters.

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That the patterns are not only for the thinking part of the brain,

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but also for the emotional part.

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And those systems are kind of two separate triggers

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that just the pattern of the sounds engage you

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and you like what the patterns are.

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But also the patterns cause emotional things,

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which is a matter of pumping into the bloodstream as opposed

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to dealing with the brain.

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Into the bloodstream, the adrenaline and other substances

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that they've focused on, dopamine, so forth, that music will trigger.

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So it brings you to an emotional and a mental balance.

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And that's kind of how you're getting the benefits of music when you discover

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I can use it that way.

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Well, this is just a wonderful testament that music itself reveals

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that we are holistic beings.

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That we're not compartmentalized where something only hits this part of me

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or that part of me, but really what happens to one part of me

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happens to all of me.

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But the power of music is that it's doing that to the various parts of me

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kind of almost in a symphony, if you will,

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kind of having that impact upon me.

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So the amazing part of this is that when you step back as a Christian

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and in the Nicene Creed, you start, I believe, God the Father Almighty,

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who may have heaven and earth and everything.

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All things visible and invisible.

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Invisible.

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Music is invisible.

348
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Those sound waves.

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I'm thinking, OK, so this is God's gift.

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It's an invisible gift.

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It's very mysterious, but very powerful with a recognition.

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And it has a place in life that benefits us

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and a place when Christians gather that involves how the Spirit works.

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So this is a powerful tool.

355
00:24:12,033 --> 00:24:17,747
And to think that Luther could make a sentence like that,

356
00:24:17,747 --> 00:24:23,837
put it right next to the Word of God because it involves hearing.

357
00:24:23,837 --> 00:24:25,088
Yeah.

358
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Because he always thought, OK, when you hear the Word of God,

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and that's the way Jesus talked about it.

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Well, and I might also say, since I'm a professor specifically

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within the Old Testament, is that that's also

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how Moses speaks and such about that he would say that we speak the Word

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into the ears of God's people.

364
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It's this very physical kind of thing.

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So even in the Old Testament, this was a discovery.

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Think about Jericho.

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Now, in the commands, only the priests were

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allowed to play the trumpet, shofar or a silver trumpet.

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Because when the priest did it, this was God signaling you.

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So when they marched around Jericho on the seventh day with the priests,

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how did the walls fall down?

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Well, upon the trumpets.

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Yes, the sounding of the trumpets.

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That was it.

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God acted.

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So there were associations like that.

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Right, right.

378
00:25:31,738 --> 00:25:35,116
Now, since our time is kind of drawing to a close,

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what would be the one big thing, above all else,

380
00:25:38,286 --> 00:25:41,998
you'd want your readers to take away?

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This is your gift.

382
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Gift from God.

383
00:25:45,835 --> 00:25:47,837
Enjoy it.

384
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Because it's a wonderful thing that composers

385
00:25:53,718 --> 00:25:56,554
can manipulate it in so many ways.

386
00:25:56,554 --> 00:26:02,727
Following the science laws of sound,

387
00:26:02,727 --> 00:26:06,523
in the overtone series that makes different kinds of sounds,

388
00:26:06,523 --> 00:26:08,817
in the way it impacts the brain.

389
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These are all gifts.

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So enjoy it.

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Then understanding that you're a person who

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has been transformed by the message of the gospel to serve God,

393
00:26:22,414 --> 00:26:25,583
you want others to benefit from it.

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00:26:25,583 --> 00:26:27,585
So you help them.

395
00:26:27,585 --> 00:26:31,423
And you use it to your own benefit.

396
00:26:31,423 --> 00:26:33,925
That's where you come out at the end of the book.

397
00:26:33,925 --> 00:26:39,222
Then the reader, whether it's a listener, the musician, or the pastor.

398
00:26:39,222 --> 00:26:44,019
And then there's a little sentence in there that warns musicians.

399
00:26:44,019 --> 00:26:49,691
You're dealing with a nonverbal signal, music.

400
00:26:49,691 --> 00:26:51,735
That's important.

401
00:26:51,735 --> 00:26:56,740
So don't think of it as you showing off your stuff.

402
00:26:56,740 --> 00:27:02,203
Think of it as helping the person who's hearing your performance.

403
00:27:02,203 --> 00:27:02,912
Well, wonderful.

404
00:27:02,912 --> 00:27:03,788
Wonderful.

405
00:27:03,788 --> 00:27:06,875
Well, I pray that many are going to be blessed by this book.

406
00:27:06,875 --> 00:27:09,753
I know whoever picks it up will be greatly blessed.

407
00:27:09,753 --> 00:27:14,257
And therefore, appreciate and enjoy all the more this gift that

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00:27:14,257 --> 00:27:16,551
is music given to us by God.

409
00:27:16,551 --> 00:27:18,803
And we thank you for joining us today.

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Come back and join us again next time on Concordia Theology.