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They asked me to do this presentation on

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funeral sermons that proclaim real hope.

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About two weeks ago, I had decided to

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just have people show up and then say,

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death is bad, preach the resurrection and

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talk about Jesus, and then send you back

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for another doughnut somewhere.

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But they wouldn't pay me if I do that.

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Actually, I don't think they're going to

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pay me.

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You have a four page outline, and it will

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depend on how the time goes.

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Appended to that are two funeral sermons

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that I preach. I don't preach many

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funerals anymore because I'm not a parish

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pastor.

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The first one, maybe just glance there,

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is the funeral sermon for Lorraine

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Hoffman.

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Renee and I were members of, and had been

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for many years, a Reformation

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congregation in Afton.

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Lorraine was actually our pastor's

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mother-in-law, David Pellecie's

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mother-in-law.

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He was going to do his duty and preach.

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This was the last parent. David's parents

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are dead, and this was Lorraine's, or

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Jill's mother.

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He was going to man up and preach his own

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mother-in-law's funeral sermon. Jill, she

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undercut him.

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She called me up and said, would you tell

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my stupid husband to sit in the pew with

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me, and would you do this?

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I said, I'd be happy to. Anyway, that's

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how it came to be that I preached

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Lorraine's funeral sermon.

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The other one is a much more personal one

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for me. Two years ago, our great friend,

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Vonda Berger, died.

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I'll talk about that a little bit more.

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Her husband, Gerald, our friend, is a

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pastor at Plainview, Texas in the

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Panhandle.

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There are two examples, which more or

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less, and please feel free to critique

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them on the basis of what you already

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know and on the basis of what I say

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today.

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We'll get to those in some form later in

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this hour. I think we go until nine, is

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that right? Then we have chapel, I think.

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Let me just walk through this. I would

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really covet comments. I think it's much

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better when this is dialogical.

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If I just talk for an hour, you'll just

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wish you hadn't gotten up quite so early.

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Please make comments, and we'll have at

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least one or two good fights.

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By way of introduction, just a couple of

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common sense things. In the context of a

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funeral course, and some of you know this

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way better than I do,

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and some of you will learn it soon

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enough, that among your hearers, there

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will be a widely and wildly varying

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levels of understanding and faith.

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You just have to read the context every

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single time. If it's a faithful

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congregational member, and family is

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Christian, and so forth, that's one

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context.

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If it's the funeral home called, and this

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family desperately needs a pastor, and

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you decide you go, and they can barely

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spell Jesus, that's another context.

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You have to make judgment calls. The

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point is you can't try to accomplish as

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much, if I can say it that way, with

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every funeral sermon.

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You have to customize it to the

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situation. Then, of course, the other

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thing is that families are really

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complicated.

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Are you aware of the fact that not all

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families love each other all the time?

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Are you aware of that? I know all of

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yours do, but you've read about this.

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You just can't ignore the family

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dynamics. You have to find out as much

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about those dynamics as you possibly can,

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unless you distract from the proclamation

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of the gospel by saying something stupid.

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We all know that you all loved Bob. As a

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matter of fact, Bob's brothers hated him

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for 30 years. You have to pay attention

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to that.

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It's a really good idea to be as well

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informed as you possibly can be.

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I wasn't actually going to say anything

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about the casuistry and the really weird

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situations.

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I'm just going to assume throughout that

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this will be the funeral sermon of

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someone that you can confidently identify

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as a Christian.

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Although, sometimes that happens too,

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that you find yourself in these weird

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situations where they insist and you

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decide that,

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Okay, I don't think this person was a

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Christian, but they want a sermon, so

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here we go.

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You don't compromise, and yet you find

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yourself in those kind of flexible

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situations. That's difficult as well.

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I have two main points. One is very short

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and the other is longer.

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The first one is, I'm firmly convinced, I

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think I was taught this long ago by the

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saint at Gerhard Aho,

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that your funeral sermon does need to

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make real contact with both the mourners

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and with the dead person.

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In other words, there's no such thing as

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a generic funeral sermon. It always has

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to be customized, or it should be

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customized in some ways.

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So on the one hand, in the sermon itself,

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you acknowledge and speak to the

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emotional upheaval and those realities

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that are going on.

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Now, I did want to say this. The goal of

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the funeral sermon is not to make people

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feel better.

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That's not the goal of the sermon. So

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it's not therapeutic in that sense.

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Now, it is the case that preaching the

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good news may very well make them feel

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better.

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But if you try to do that, it's kind of

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like in pastoral care and counseling, if

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someone comes to you upset and your goal

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is to try to make them feel better,

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what you may very well end up doing is

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simply running rough shot over what's

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going on inside of them.

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So you can't give in to that desire,

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which is, I think, a genuine desire,

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especially on the part of guys, if I

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could make a generalization, to fix the

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situation.

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So your goal is not, although, again, as

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I said in yesterday's session, so your

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goal, Hina plus the subjunctive, is not

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to make them feel better.

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But hosta plus the indicative, it may

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have that result.

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That was nice, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah,

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yeah. And other people, Rod, are saying,

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I'm leaving right now.

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I'd like to say that grammar is life. So

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what the sermon should do, however, is

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acknowledge.

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You have to acknowledge the grief, the

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confusion, the fear, whatever it happens

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to be in meaningful ways.

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Again, you don't try to make it go away,

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but you acknowledge it. And I think it's

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like a big elephant in the living room.

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If you don't talk about it in some

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meaningful sense, then it diminishes on

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the human level the possible

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effectiveness of the sermon.

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And the other thing you should do, I

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think, is you should connect somehow with

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the life or the story of the dead person,

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the deceased.

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Yes?

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Yeah, yeah, shoot those people. In the

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leg.

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In the leg? Yeah, yeah. You know, I was

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really blessed because I had a really

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good, in our little town in Oregon, where

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we were for ten years, Chuck Parks.

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I still remember his name. I haven't seen

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him in 25 years. But he was a good guy.

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He was a faithful Baptist Christian.

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And he was my friend at funerals. This

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guy knew what funerals were for.

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And he would call me up occasionally if

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he saw a family that needed pastoral

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care.

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And sometimes I would say yes, and

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sometimes I would say no. Yeah, yeah. So

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a good funeral director is a great thing.

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And by the way, no, I don't want to talk

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about cremation. We're not going to talk

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about cremation today.

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Mark wants to talk about cremation, so

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after chapel, talk to him. Yes?

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Do you need to develop a relationship

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with the person who's pregnant?

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Yes.

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Does that make sense?

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Absolutely. Take them out to lunch.

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Right? Yeah, Lonnie?

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Are you going to talk about suicide?

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No, we're not going to talk about

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suicide. Yeah, don't do it. That's my

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thought.

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If at all possible, don't do it. Right?

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See, I wrote in there on this eulogy

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thing, not everyone is like Bud Johnson.

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Bud was one of our trustees, and I

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remember him saying to me in the parking

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lot one time,

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he says, I went to a funeral today,

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Pastor, and I said, oh, I'm sorry, Bud,

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friend of yours?

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He said, yeah. And then he paused, and he

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said, he was always sucking on a pipe,

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you know, gut, you know, could fix

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anything, you know.

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And he said, I like the way you do

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funerals better than the way most people

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around here do.

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And I said, well, why is that? And he

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said, well, they end up talking about the

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other person, he says, and you mostly

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talk about Jesus.

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Yeah, it's just rocket science? No.

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So, however, so eulogies, again, there's

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wiggle room, gray area, but it's

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traditionally practiced, not a Lutheran

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thing to do, you know.

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However, since the deceased is on

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everyone's mind, it's very important to

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try to find some sort of valid hook

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that can link the life of the dead person

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with the theme or thrust of the sermon.

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And this is just good homiletics. You're

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preaching into a particular context.

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So some well-known trait, a story, or

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some rhetorical connection like that, I

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think is very effective.

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And the best time, if you don't know what

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to do, the best time to find something

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like that,

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and I used to deliberately do this, is

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when you're visiting between, well, maybe

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during sickness or anyway between death

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and the funeral,

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and you're visiting the family, ask them

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to tell stories, see.

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And then you can incorporate something

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from those stories somehow into the

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funeral sermon itself.

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So, again, you're proclaiming to real

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people, and you have to make contact with

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the listeners on the emotional and

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personal level.

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Now here's the hard part. Room number

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three, which of course is obviously the

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longer part of the outline.

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You have to interpret the occasion in

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light of Christian theology.

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Which is, I think, a true thing to say on

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00:10:49,682 --> 00:10:51,050
a number of levels.

271
00:10:52,084 --> 00:10:53,653
So there at the bottom of page one, a

272
00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:55,254
funeral is an occasional sermon, like a

273
00:10:55,254 --> 00:10:55,721
wedding.

274
00:10:55,855 --> 00:10:57,056
You preach a wedding in light of

275
00:10:57,056 --> 00:10:58,324
Christian theology of marriage.

276
00:10:59,925 --> 00:11:01,394
You preach an ordination or the

277
00:11:01,394 --> 00:11:03,129
anniversary of a congregation or any

278
00:11:03,129 --> 00:11:04,430
other occasional sermon.

279
00:11:05,231 --> 00:11:07,867
You preach it in light of how Christian

280
00:11:07,867 --> 00:11:10,269
theology interprets that occasion.

281
00:11:11,470 --> 00:11:13,673
So Christian theology gives an answer to

282
00:11:13,673 --> 00:11:15,741
the question, what has happened? What

283
00:11:15,741 --> 00:11:16,642
does it mean?

284
00:11:18,544 --> 00:11:20,980
And of course the problem here is that

285
00:11:20,980 --> 00:11:23,082
with regard to death, there is an

286
00:11:23,082 --> 00:11:25,618
inordinate amount of what you could call

287
00:11:25,618 --> 00:11:26,886
popular theology

288
00:11:27,586 --> 00:11:29,355
that tries to answer the question, what

289
00:11:29,355 --> 00:11:31,290
has happened in the death of this person?

290
00:11:32,124 --> 00:11:34,393
Most of that popular theology is

291
00:11:34,393 --> 00:11:36,996
speculative. Some of it is relatively

292
00:11:36,996 --> 00:11:37,863
harmless.

293
00:11:38,931 --> 00:11:41,567
Some of it is absolutely heretical, as we

294
00:11:41,567 --> 00:11:44,003
all know. Things that people say about

295
00:11:44,003 --> 00:11:45,838
what happens when you die.

296
00:11:48,174 --> 00:11:51,243
By the way, I know you hate academics who

297
00:11:51,243 --> 00:11:54,280
recommend books, because who has time to

298
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:55,948
read a book, right?

299
00:11:56,916 --> 00:11:59,018
But this is a short one, look, 76 pages.

300
00:12:00,419 --> 00:12:02,822
And many of you know N.T. Wright, Tom

301
00:12:02,822 --> 00:12:05,624
Wright, this Anglican great mega scholar.

302
00:12:06,325 --> 00:12:08,027
And a student actually gave me this, For

303
00:12:08,027 --> 00:12:09,795
All the Saints, Remembering the Christian

304
00:12:09,795 --> 00:12:10,296
Departed.

305
00:12:10,362 --> 00:12:12,798
This is a very, very nice book. And there

306
00:12:12,798 --> 00:12:15,101
is enough overlap between Anglican and

307
00:12:15,101 --> 00:12:17,470
their liturgy and us and our liturgy.

308
00:12:17,803 --> 00:12:20,005
And it is a very nice reflection. And it

309
00:12:20,005 --> 00:12:21,640
does speak to this question.

310
00:12:21,807 --> 00:12:23,309
So if you are looking for, if you have

311
00:12:23,309 --> 00:12:24,810
never read Wright, I like to read N.T.

312
00:12:24,810 --> 00:12:26,278
Wright whenever he talks about it.

313
00:12:26,312 --> 00:12:29,281
This is a really great intro and it is a

314
00:12:29,281 --> 00:12:32,084
very helpful reflection on, well, as I

315
00:12:32,084 --> 00:12:34,453
was telling Renée last night,

316
00:12:34,453 --> 00:12:36,655
what I was taught in the eighth grade. I

317
00:12:36,655 --> 00:12:38,724
mean, what I am saying today, I do not

318
00:12:38,724 --> 00:12:40,726
think is anything different than what

319
00:12:40,726 --> 00:12:43,095
Pastor Meyer taught me in Confirmation.

320
00:12:43,295 --> 00:12:46,031
But somehow there is this huge popular

321
00:12:46,031 --> 00:12:48,667
misconception and misleading ways of

322
00:12:48,667 --> 00:12:50,436
speaking about death.

323
00:12:51,737 --> 00:12:53,906
So, granted that there are all these, all

324
00:12:53,906 --> 00:12:56,041
this popular theology, I will say this at

325
00:12:56,041 --> 00:12:57,276
the top of page two,

326
00:12:57,309 --> 00:12:59,178
the sermon is not the place to argue with

327
00:12:59,178 --> 00:12:59,512
that.

328
00:13:00,813 --> 00:13:03,082
You do not try to bring the dumb stuff to

329
00:13:03,082 --> 00:13:05,351
the surface and rebut it. That is not the

330
00:13:05,351 --> 00:13:06,352
place for that.

331
00:13:06,585 --> 00:13:09,121
Bible class or symposium or something is

332
00:13:09,121 --> 00:13:10,456
the place for that.

333
00:13:11,023 --> 00:13:13,692
But what you simply do is you carefully,

334
00:13:13,692 --> 00:13:16,095
directly proclaim Christian meaning,

335
00:13:16,095 --> 00:13:17,296
Christian hope,

336
00:13:17,797 --> 00:13:19,532
and in a way and on a level that is

337
00:13:19,532 --> 00:13:21,000
appropriate to the occasion.

338
00:13:22,234 --> 00:13:23,869
So, let us talk about Christian theology

339
00:13:23,869 --> 00:13:25,571
and its interpretation of this occasion.

340
00:13:27,173 --> 00:13:28,574
What has happened is that someone has

341
00:13:28,574 --> 00:13:28,841
died.

342
00:13:29,708 --> 00:13:31,911
And I have here one, I always feel like

343
00:13:31,911 --> 00:13:34,346
Voeltz. See how organized this outline is?

344
00:13:38,050 --> 00:13:39,685
So, and you are thinking, I do not ever

345
00:13:39,685 --> 00:13:40,786
want to feel like Voeltz.

346
00:13:41,654 --> 00:13:43,656
So, I have one and two, what death does

347
00:13:43,656 --> 00:13:45,357
not mean and what it does mean.

348
00:13:46,826 --> 00:13:49,628
And this is not an exhaustive list. This

349
00:13:49,628 --> 00:13:51,964
first one is first for a reason.

350
00:13:53,465 --> 00:13:54,834
Coincidentally, if there are

351
00:13:54,834 --> 00:13:56,502
coincidences, I was emailing with a

352
00:13:56,502 --> 00:13:58,137
pastor about this this morning,

353
00:13:58,137 --> 00:13:59,572
and I am going to show you from out of

354
00:13:59,572 --> 00:14:00,005
the blue.

355
00:14:01,507 --> 00:14:04,276
When a person dies, they do not pass into

356
00:14:04,276 --> 00:14:05,311
eternal life.

357
00:14:08,013 --> 00:14:11,250
This is a non-Christian thing to say.

358
00:14:13,052 --> 00:14:16,088
And yet it is extremely popular and it is

359
00:14:16,088 --> 00:14:18,490
embedded in prayers and hymns.

360
00:14:19,725 --> 00:14:22,027
You enter into eternal life when you are

361
00:14:22,027 --> 00:14:22,628
baptized.

362
00:14:24,830 --> 00:14:27,032
Jesus says, he who believes my word and

363
00:14:27,032 --> 00:14:29,101
believes Him who sent me, or faith,

364
00:14:29,668 --> 00:14:31,170
he who hears my word and believes Him who

365
00:14:31,170 --> 00:14:32,171
sent me has eternal life.

366
00:14:32,271 --> 00:14:35,140
He has passed over from death into life.

367
00:14:35,708 --> 00:14:37,877
See, there is no place where the Bible

368
00:14:37,877 --> 00:14:39,211
says, the Bible says,

369
00:14:39,211 --> 00:14:41,747
that when you die, this is an entrance

370
00:14:41,747 --> 00:14:43,082
into eternal life.

371
00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:47,052
It is simply not true. It is an untrue

372
00:14:47,052 --> 00:14:48,153
thing to say.

373
00:14:48,854 --> 00:14:51,323
What happens when you die is that you

374
00:14:51,323 --> 00:14:51,724
die.

375
00:14:56,462 --> 00:14:58,364
Really, especially in our hymnity, it is

376
00:14:58,364 --> 00:14:59,365
all over the place.

377
00:15:00,065 --> 00:15:02,201
So one of my big goals is to ruin lots of

378
00:15:02,201 --> 00:15:03,035
hymns for you.

379
00:15:04,303 --> 00:15:05,671
But that makes the hymnal smaller and it

380
00:15:05,671 --> 00:15:06,405
is easier to handle.

381
00:15:11,343 --> 00:15:13,545
That probably sounds like a weird thing

382
00:15:13,545 --> 00:15:15,848
to say. I hope it is kind of fleshed out

383
00:15:15,848 --> 00:15:16,515
as we go.

384
00:15:17,216 --> 00:15:20,185
Here is a second very popular speculation

385
00:15:20,185 --> 00:15:21,754
and it is just that.

386
00:15:22,488 --> 00:15:25,124
I found that in Fritz, Fritz's Pastoral

387
00:15:25,124 --> 00:15:27,860
Theologie, which was used in the Missouri

388
00:15:27,860 --> 00:15:29,261
Synod for decades,

389
00:15:29,495 --> 00:15:31,563
he simply asserts this and it is not

390
00:15:31,563 --> 00:15:31,964
true.

391
00:15:32,331 --> 00:15:34,333
At least there is no direct biblical

392
00:15:34,333 --> 00:15:35,334
evidence for it.

393
00:15:35,701 --> 00:15:37,803
That is, when you die, you are somehow in

394
00:15:37,803 --> 00:15:39,004
a timeless existence,

395
00:15:39,505 --> 00:15:40,940
which means you are already at the

396
00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:42,541
judgment day and you already have your

397
00:15:42,541 --> 00:15:43,409
resurrection body.

398
00:15:44,376 --> 00:15:46,512
That is a complete speculation.

399
00:15:47,947 --> 00:15:50,449
It has no direct support in the scripture

400
00:15:50,449 --> 00:15:52,418
and it can quickly lead to direct

401
00:15:52,418 --> 00:15:53,385
contradiction

402
00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:55,587
of the Bible's only answer to the

403
00:15:55,587 --> 00:15:57,389
question, when are the dead raised?

404
00:15:58,524 --> 00:16:00,225
And the answer is, when are the dead

405
00:16:00,225 --> 00:16:02,094
raised? When Christ returns in glory.

406
00:16:02,528 --> 00:16:04,863
It is not rocket science. There is no

407
00:16:04,863 --> 00:16:06,465
other scriptural answer.

408
00:16:07,466 --> 00:16:09,535
So if you are asking the question, when

409
00:16:09,535 --> 00:16:11,236
do I get my resurrection body?

410
00:16:12,071 --> 00:16:13,772
The answer to the question is, when Jesus

411
00:16:13,772 --> 00:16:14,940
comes again. That is when.

412
00:16:18,110 --> 00:16:20,346
It is also misleading at best, or at

413
00:16:20,346 --> 00:16:22,514
least I should say, to say that the

414
00:16:22,514 --> 00:16:24,950
person has gone to his eternal home.

415
00:16:26,185 --> 00:16:28,821
And the word that I object to there is

416
00:16:28,821 --> 00:16:31,623
eternal, or gone to their eternal rest.

417
00:16:32,591 --> 00:16:35,627
Because presumably this is not going to

418
00:16:35,627 --> 00:16:36,695
last. Right?

419
00:16:37,763 --> 00:16:39,932
I mean, you are not going to stay dead.

420
00:16:41,233 --> 00:16:43,936
Right? You are going to be raised to life

421
00:16:43,936 --> 00:16:45,104
on the last day.

422
00:16:46,372 --> 00:16:48,474
So however we describe the interim state

423
00:16:48,474 --> 00:16:49,608
or being in heaven,

424
00:16:49,975 --> 00:16:51,443
and I think there are some things

425
00:16:51,443 --> 00:16:53,045
obviously that we can and should say

426
00:16:53,045 --> 00:16:54,446
about that in a positive way,

427
00:16:55,247 --> 00:16:58,484
it is a temporary, blessed, and

428
00:16:58,484 --> 00:17:00,986
disembodied existence.

429
00:17:02,588 --> 00:17:05,057
Rest in peace on a funeral headstone

430
00:17:05,057 --> 00:17:07,493
should always be followed by rise in

431
00:17:07,493 --> 00:17:08,127
glory.

432
00:17:09,595 --> 00:17:10,863
Why don't we just say that? Why don't we

433
00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:11,663
just say rest in peace?

434
00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:14,133
You are not going to stay there. Right?

435
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,169
I mean, cemeteries are going to be busy

436
00:17:17,169 --> 00:17:19,271
places when you hear the trumpet. Right?

437
00:17:21,974 --> 00:17:24,109
So the joke, I think I got this from

438
00:17:24,109 --> 00:17:26,612
Glenn Nielsen, and I made her a promise,

439
00:17:26,812 --> 00:17:27,946
and I hope she does this. Of course I

440
00:17:27,946 --> 00:17:28,847
will be dead. I won't know.

441
00:17:29,415 --> 00:17:32,017
But if I die before she does on my

442
00:17:32,017 --> 00:17:34,953
tombstone, I want some sort of a clear

443
00:17:34,953 --> 00:17:38,090
manifestation of the open, empty tomb.

444
00:17:38,123 --> 00:17:40,859
And the words, this is only a temporary

445
00:17:40,859 --> 00:17:41,593
setback.

446
00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:47,132
Can you imagine? Wouldn't that be great?

447
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:50,636
You are walking through a cemetery and it

448
00:17:50,636 --> 00:17:53,238
says, oh, you know, Caleb, what is your

449
00:17:53,238 --> 00:17:54,673
middle name Caleb?

450
00:17:55,307 --> 00:17:57,643
Caleb Joel Shower. This is only a

451
00:17:57,643 --> 00:17:59,044
temporary setback.

452
00:18:00,479 --> 00:18:02,714
But it is true. It is true. It might cost

453
00:18:02,714 --> 00:18:04,750
too much to have them made letters.

454
00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:07,286
I have actually seen this one a couple of

455
00:18:07,286 --> 00:18:09,588
times, and I have actually read it in

456
00:18:09,588 --> 00:18:11,390
popular Christian authors.

457
00:18:13,459 --> 00:18:15,260
Max Lucado is a name that you know. I

458
00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:16,829
haven't read much of his stuff.

459
00:18:16,929 --> 00:18:19,098
I think I read some things that are quite

460
00:18:19,098 --> 00:18:21,200
good, but he actually used this image in

461
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,935
a book that someone showed me.

462
00:18:23,235 --> 00:18:25,904
That when you die, it is like a birth.

463
00:18:27,706 --> 00:18:29,608
It is just like when a baby emerges out

464
00:18:29,608 --> 00:18:30,609
of a mother's womb.

465
00:18:30,609 --> 00:18:33,145
So your soul emerges out of your body and

466
00:18:33,145 --> 00:18:35,013
you are birthed into heaven.

467
00:18:35,547 --> 00:18:37,883
This is Gnostic. This is completely

468
00:18:37,883 --> 00:18:38,884
un-Christian.

469
00:18:40,385 --> 00:18:42,154
It is completely un-Christian.

470
00:18:43,255 --> 00:18:45,757
So if they want to put that in the

471
00:18:45,757 --> 00:18:48,427
funeral, the bulletin or the service

472
00:18:48,427 --> 00:18:49,161
folder,

473
00:18:50,295 --> 00:18:52,865
the answer is go talk to the druids or

474
00:18:52,865 --> 00:18:53,665
something.

475
00:18:56,969 --> 00:18:59,671
When a person dies, it is not the case.

476
00:19:00,606 --> 00:19:02,407
They have now reached the goal of their

477
00:19:02,407 --> 00:19:02,975
salvation.

478
00:19:04,309 --> 00:19:05,744
That is simply not true.

479
00:19:07,212 --> 00:19:08,947
It is not the completion of their

480
00:19:08,947 --> 00:19:09,448
baptism.

481
00:19:11,283 --> 00:19:13,619
In this regard, I thought we would...

482
00:19:14,887 --> 00:19:16,655
If you have your Bible, let's go to

483
00:19:16,655 --> 00:19:18,757
Philippians. Let's spend a little time in

484
00:19:18,757 --> 00:19:19,525
Philippians.

485
00:19:21,093 --> 00:19:23,629
We just read this text on Sunday.

486
00:19:25,197 --> 00:19:25,998
Philippians 1.

487
00:19:27,432 --> 00:19:28,066
Philippians 1.

488
00:19:28,066 --> 00:19:30,502
What I am afraid happens is that

489
00:19:30,502 --> 00:19:33,539
Philippians 1:23 becomes the centerpiece

490
00:19:33,539 --> 00:19:34,907
for everything.

491
00:19:37,476 --> 00:19:39,945
As I have written there, this statement

492
00:19:39,945 --> 00:19:42,181
of Paul, which is certainly true,

493
00:19:42,748 --> 00:19:44,850
needs to be read in the context of New

494
00:19:44,850 --> 00:19:47,052
Testament theology, his thought, and the

495
00:19:47,052 --> 00:19:48,487
context of Philippians.

496
00:19:48,921 --> 00:19:51,223
This verse is not the main statement and

497
00:19:51,223 --> 00:19:53,025
centerpiece of Christian hope.

498
00:19:53,659 --> 00:19:55,527
In other words, it cannot be allowed to

499
00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:57,296
over run or trump explicit statements

500
00:19:57,296 --> 00:19:58,597
about the second coming.

501
00:19:59,531 --> 00:20:02,034
So of course what Paul says there, he is

502
00:20:02,034 --> 00:20:03,268
in jail of course.

503
00:20:04,102 --> 00:20:05,437
Philippians is one of the captivity

504
00:20:05,437 --> 00:20:05,837
letters.

505
00:20:07,806 --> 00:20:10,375
Verse 21, to me, or for me to live is

506
00:20:10,375 --> 00:20:12,110
Christ, to die is gain.

507
00:20:12,844 --> 00:20:15,581
In some sense, something positive can be

508
00:20:15,581 --> 00:20:16,815
said about that.

509
00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:21,386
Verse 23, I am hard pressed out of or

510
00:20:21,386 --> 00:20:24,856
normally translated between the two

511
00:20:25,324 --> 00:20:29,595
because I have the desire so as to depart

512
00:20:29,595 --> 00:20:33,131
and to be with Christ for, by much

513
00:20:33,131 --> 00:20:35,000
rather, better.

514
00:20:36,468 --> 00:20:37,903
For it's Christ's, it's better.

515
00:20:38,503 --> 00:20:40,372
We'll talk about a sense in which that's

516
00:20:40,372 --> 00:20:41,540
true or several senses.

517
00:20:42,507 --> 00:20:44,142
But then of course he goes on to remain

518
00:20:44,142 --> 00:20:45,711
in the flesh is more necessary for you

519
00:20:45,711 --> 00:20:46,345
and so forth.

520
00:20:46,812 --> 00:20:48,780
So here's the question that I actually

521
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:50,148
had been thinking about.

522
00:20:51,316 --> 00:20:54,219
So when you depart and be with Christ,

523
00:20:54,219 --> 00:20:57,022
when you die, Paul says it is by much

524
00:20:57,022 --> 00:20:58,323
rather better.

525
00:20:59,524 --> 00:21:01,760
But we may legitimately ask better in

526
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:02,561
what sense?

527
00:21:04,363 --> 00:21:07,165
And so what I did is I read Philippians

528
00:21:07,165 --> 00:21:09,968
and I look for what happens on the last

529
00:21:09,968 --> 00:21:10,469
day,

530
00:21:10,469 --> 00:21:13,805
according to Paul in Philippians.

531
00:21:16,008 --> 00:21:18,543
And so here's what I came up with.

532
00:21:19,511 --> 00:21:21,513
To depart and be with Christ is not

533
00:21:21,513 --> 00:21:23,782
better because God's work in you is now

534
00:21:23,782 --> 00:21:24,449
complete.

535
00:21:25,484 --> 00:21:28,020
That happens on the day of Christ,

536
00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:29,388
Philippians 1:6.

537
00:21:31,089 --> 00:21:33,759
So these are the senses in which dying in

538
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:35,360
the Lord is not better.

539
00:21:37,396 --> 00:21:38,997
So to depart and be with Christ is not

540
00:21:38,997 --> 00:21:40,532
better because you are now pure and

541
00:21:40,532 --> 00:21:41,066
blameless,

542
00:21:41,066 --> 00:21:42,701
filled with the fruit of righteousness.

543
00:21:42,701 --> 00:21:44,236
That happens on the day of Christ.

544
00:21:45,671 --> 00:21:47,239
Philippians 1:10 and 11.

545
00:21:47,773 --> 00:21:49,274
To depart and be with Christ is not

546
00:21:49,274 --> 00:21:51,143
better because you are with all creation,

547
00:21:51,243 --> 00:21:53,312
confessing that Jesus, once humbled unto

548
00:21:53,312 --> 00:21:54,613
the death of the cross,

549
00:21:54,713 --> 00:21:56,214
is now being confessed by all to the

550
00:21:56,214 --> 00:21:57,149
glory of the Father.

551
00:21:58,417 --> 00:22:00,052
Although Paul doesn't explicitly say it,

552
00:22:00,052 --> 00:22:01,553
presumably that happens on the day of

553
00:22:01,553 --> 00:22:01,987
Christ.

554
00:22:02,454 --> 00:22:05,390
Because every knee will bow and every

555
00:22:05,390 --> 00:22:06,725
tongue confess.

556
00:22:08,460 --> 00:22:10,629
Nor is it the case that departing and

557
00:22:10,629 --> 00:22:12,864
being with Christ is better because at

558
00:22:12,864 --> 00:22:15,133
that point those whose work in the Lord

559
00:22:15,133 --> 00:22:17,436
you are may boast that they had not run

560
00:22:17,436 --> 00:22:18,203
in vain.

561
00:22:18,670 --> 00:22:21,473
No, Paul says that he will have that

562
00:22:21,473 --> 00:22:24,509
boast on the day of Christ, Philippians

563
00:22:24,509 --> 00:22:25,143
2:16.

564
00:22:27,112 --> 00:22:28,680
Nor is departing and being with Christ

565
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,315
better because you have already reached

566
00:22:30,315 --> 00:22:31,883
the goal of the prize of God's upward

567
00:22:31,883 --> 00:22:32,384
calling.

568
00:22:32,751 --> 00:22:34,686
That happens at the resurrection of the

569
00:22:34,686 --> 00:22:35,053
dead.

570
00:22:36,321 --> 00:22:38,490
That's the epistle coming up. We read

571
00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:40,625
that after Dean Nasti's presentation

572
00:22:40,625 --> 00:22:41,393
yesterday.

573
00:22:42,761 --> 00:22:44,296
Nor is departing and being with Christ

574
00:22:44,296 --> 00:22:45,697
better because you now possess and

575
00:22:45,697 --> 00:22:46,898
experience your full heavenly

576
00:22:46,898 --> 00:22:47,532
citizenship.

577
00:22:48,767 --> 00:22:51,036
No, that comes to us when Jesus comes

578
00:22:51,036 --> 00:22:53,538
from heaven to transform our lowly bodies

579
00:22:53,538 --> 00:22:55,807
to be like unto his glorious body,

580
00:22:56,341 --> 00:22:58,744
according to his infinite power,

581
00:22:58,744 --> 00:23:00,812
Philippians 3:20 and 21.

582
00:23:00,812 --> 00:23:04,383
So, see those things are true of the last

583
00:23:04,383 --> 00:23:07,686
day. They are not true when you die.

584
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:10,822
So we have to ask the question then,

585
00:23:10,822 --> 00:23:12,724
because Paul doesn't explain it.

586
00:23:12,924 --> 00:23:15,293
He doesn't say to die would be far better

587
00:23:15,293 --> 00:23:15,894
because.

588
00:23:16,628 --> 00:23:19,064
He doesn't explain it. He just says it.

589
00:23:19,064 --> 00:23:20,699
And he's in jail, right?

590
00:23:21,466 --> 00:23:23,101
Okay, fine. So at the very least

591
00:23:23,101 --> 00:23:25,203
departing and being with Christ is better

592
00:23:25,203 --> 00:23:26,671
than being in jail, right?

593
00:23:27,773 --> 00:23:30,108
Roman jails are not happy, right? Or

594
00:23:30,108 --> 00:23:32,344
Caesarean jails, wherever he is.

595
00:23:33,145 --> 00:23:34,813
So to die and be with Christ is by much

596
00:23:34,813 --> 00:23:36,081
rather better in what sense.

597
00:23:36,148 --> 00:23:37,849
Our answer cannot violate the structure

598
00:23:37,849 --> 00:23:39,317
of Paul's thought and his explicit

599
00:23:39,317 --> 00:23:40,685
eschatological proclamation.

600
00:23:41,486 --> 00:23:43,422
If we can piece together an answer, it

601
00:23:43,422 --> 00:23:45,090
might look something like this.

602
00:23:45,223 --> 00:23:48,126
And by the way, I felt somewhat justified

603
00:23:48,126 --> 00:23:50,562
in saying piece together an answer

604
00:23:50,562 --> 00:23:53,331
because I agree with Francis Pieper.

605
00:23:53,331 --> 00:23:54,833
It's always a safe thing to say in the

606
00:23:54,833 --> 00:23:56,201
Missouri Synod. I agree. Well, not

607
00:23:56,201 --> 00:23:56,802
always, but.

608
00:23:58,403 --> 00:24:01,606
So listen to what Pieper says about the

609
00:24:01,606 --> 00:24:04,509
interim state or dying and going to

610
00:24:04,509 --> 00:24:05,310
heaven.

611
00:24:07,846 --> 00:24:10,549
Let's see. Well, first thing he says is,

612
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:12,851
Holy writ reveals but little of the state

613
00:24:12,851 --> 00:24:14,519
of the souls between death and

614
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:15,854
resurrection. Little.

615
00:24:17,389 --> 00:24:18,089
Doesn't say much.

616
00:24:18,924 --> 00:24:20,525
And speaking of the last things that

617
00:24:20,525 --> 00:24:22,194
directs our gaze primarily to Judgment

618
00:24:22,194 --> 00:24:24,129
Day and the events clustering around it.

619
00:24:24,429 --> 00:24:24,963
That's correct.

620
00:24:27,065 --> 00:24:29,334
So what can we say? This being with

621
00:24:29,334 --> 00:24:31,336
Christ, Pieper says, must be an

622
00:24:31,336 --> 00:24:33,538
augmentation of the communion with

623
00:24:33,538 --> 00:24:34,239
Christ,

624
00:24:34,372 --> 00:24:36,541
which we have here on earth, because Paul

625
00:24:36,541 --> 00:24:37,776
says it's far better.

626
00:24:39,878 --> 00:24:41,980
Let's see. It bespeaks a blissful state

627
00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:42,714
of the soul.

628
00:24:43,682 --> 00:24:45,951
These texts and that's, you know, he's

629
00:24:45,951 --> 00:24:48,420
citing the usual text thief on the cross,

630
00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:49,588
right? So forth.

631
00:24:51,490 --> 00:24:53,091
These texts surely make it evident that

632
00:24:53,091 --> 00:24:54,726
the departed souls of the believers are

633
00:24:54,726 --> 00:24:56,495
in a state of blessed enjoyment of God,

634
00:24:56,928 --> 00:24:59,931
even though we know nothing further as to

635
00:24:59,931 --> 00:25:02,634
the manner of their blessed communion

636
00:25:02,634 --> 00:25:03,502
with God.

637
00:25:04,569 --> 00:25:06,538
Deductions from the nature of the soul

638
00:25:06,538 --> 00:25:08,406
are uncertain and therefore not to be

639
00:25:08,406 --> 00:25:09,508
urged in theology.

640
00:25:10,208 --> 00:25:12,377
It's actually pretty good. It's very

641
00:25:12,377 --> 00:25:14,813
brief. And then he goes on to talk about

642
00:25:14,813 --> 00:25:16,448
Jesus coming back. John?

643
00:25:17,482 --> 00:25:20,085
It's volume three under eschatology.

644
00:25:20,085 --> 00:25:22,754
We're the last things. Yeah, that was

645
00:25:22,754 --> 00:25:24,189
page 511 and 512.

646
00:25:25,457 --> 00:25:28,593
See, we have you buy books in seminary so

647
00:25:28,593 --> 00:25:30,495
that you will use them.

648
00:25:32,931 --> 00:25:34,933
It doesn't count if it's on an I

649
00:25:34,933 --> 00:25:37,369
something one. You younger persons have

650
00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:38,470
these I things.

651
00:25:40,772 --> 00:25:42,307
Let's see, another volcano is going to

652
00:25:42,307 --> 00:25:43,875
blow up and it's going to cover the sun

653
00:25:43,875 --> 00:25:45,143
and your battery won't work.

654
00:25:45,844 --> 00:25:47,412
And then if you want answers, you'll have

655
00:25:47,412 --> 00:25:48,914
to talk to old people like me and Wally

656
00:25:48,914 --> 00:25:49,614
who have books.

657
00:25:52,450 --> 00:25:54,686
And we will rule the world. And these

658
00:25:54,686 --> 00:25:57,088
young guys are saying, I'm going to Fort

659
00:25:57,088 --> 00:25:59,324
Wayne. That's what they're saying.

660
00:26:01,192 --> 00:26:02,227
I went to Fort Wayne.

661
00:26:05,530 --> 00:26:08,133
So death is not the goal, right?

662
00:26:09,534 --> 00:26:11,536
Oh, we haven't said the positive. We can

663
00:26:11,536 --> 00:26:13,605
say some positive things here, I think.

664
00:26:14,172 --> 00:26:16,441
So at the top of page three, here's the

665
00:26:16,441 --> 00:26:18,810
answer. And maybe we could say more than

666
00:26:18,810 --> 00:26:19,277
this.

667
00:26:19,978 --> 00:26:22,213
And by the way, you can say these things

668
00:26:22,213 --> 00:26:23,448
in a funeral sermon.

669
00:26:24,215 --> 00:26:27,018
Right? Because I think, and as you'll see

670
00:26:27,018 --> 00:26:29,654
in the two that I appended, I do speak

671
00:26:29,654 --> 00:26:31,556
briefly in a positive way

672
00:26:32,524 --> 00:26:34,793
about what has happened now to the soul

673
00:26:34,793 --> 00:26:36,227
of our departed sister.

674
00:26:36,227 --> 00:26:38,463
And I think you can say some of these

675
00:26:38,463 --> 00:26:40,832
things. It's just that I don't want this

676
00:26:40,832 --> 00:26:43,168
to be the main proclamation of hope.

677
00:26:45,904 --> 00:26:47,739
So, presumably to depart and be with

678
00:26:47,739 --> 00:26:49,608
Christ is by much rather better. Why?

679
00:26:49,608 --> 00:26:51,576
Because there's an end to suffering.

680
00:26:52,944 --> 00:26:54,145
I think that's true.

681
00:26:55,547 --> 00:26:58,049
Imprisonment, beatings and trouble, such

682
00:26:58,049 --> 00:27:00,518
as Paul has experienced for 30 years.

683
00:27:01,653 --> 00:27:03,054
As he has learned how much he was

684
00:27:03,054 --> 00:27:04,756
appointed to suffer for Christ's sake.

685
00:27:04,756 --> 00:27:06,291
It's a very personal statement he's

686
00:27:06,291 --> 00:27:07,859
making there, so we can in the first

687
00:27:07,859 --> 00:27:09,828
place link it to his personal experience.

688
00:27:10,862 --> 00:27:12,864
Presumably, dying and being with Christ

689
00:27:12,864 --> 00:27:14,966
is by much rather better because there's

690
00:27:14,966 --> 00:27:16,968
an end to temptation and to sinning and

691
00:27:16,968 --> 00:27:18,403
to fear and uncertainty.

692
00:27:19,070 --> 00:27:21,873
Presumably. I think that's likely.

693
00:27:23,208 --> 00:27:25,377
And it is by much rather better because

694
00:27:25,377 --> 00:27:27,345
there is in some mysterious sense a

695
00:27:27,345 --> 00:27:29,381
profound rest and a waiting in peace,

696
00:27:29,381 --> 00:27:31,282
waiting for the day of Christ.

697
00:27:31,282 --> 00:27:33,718
And that's the reference to the souls

698
00:27:33,718 --> 00:27:35,854
under the altar in Revelation.

699
00:27:36,755 --> 00:27:38,390
See, the Church, see we are the Church

700
00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:40,158
militant. I'm not exactly comfortable, to

701
00:27:40,158 --> 00:27:41,893
be honest, with talking about the Church

702
00:27:41,893 --> 00:27:42,527
triumphant.

703
00:27:43,194 --> 00:27:46,231
Because how can the Church be triumphant

704
00:27:46,231 --> 00:27:48,800
if Christ himself is not yet fully

705
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,137
acknowledged as Lord in all the creation?

706
00:27:52,804 --> 00:27:55,106
I think that the Church at rest, I think

707
00:27:55,106 --> 00:27:57,308
that the Church in safety or something

708
00:27:57,308 --> 00:27:58,076
like that.

709
00:27:58,076 --> 00:28:01,479
But we are one Church and we are waiting

710
00:28:01,479 --> 00:28:03,515
for the day of Christ.

711
00:28:04,416 --> 00:28:07,218
How long, O Lord, until you avenge the

712
00:28:07,218 --> 00:28:08,987
blood of our brothers?

713
00:28:09,754 --> 00:28:11,823
See, the souls of the martyrs are calling

714
00:28:11,823 --> 00:28:13,692
out for God to do what's right in the

715
00:28:13,692 --> 00:28:14,125
world.

716
00:28:15,827 --> 00:28:17,362
That's what they're calling out for

717
00:28:17,362 --> 00:28:18,530
because it's God's world.

718
00:28:20,098 --> 00:28:22,133
I can feel a soapbox coming on.

719
00:28:22,667 --> 00:28:25,437
So I'll resist the urge to step on it.

720
00:28:26,171 --> 00:28:28,006
See, here it is, death is not the goal,

721
00:28:28,006 --> 00:28:29,774
death is not the end, death is not the

722
00:28:29,774 --> 00:28:30,208
prize.

723
00:28:30,308 --> 00:28:31,476
It is not a victory.

724
00:28:32,544 --> 00:28:34,145
And it is not a good but an evil.

725
00:28:35,313 --> 00:28:36,915
Temporary and limited evil, but an evil

726
00:28:36,915 --> 00:28:37,482
nonetheless.

727
00:28:39,017 --> 00:28:41,119
We all know this, not yet fully subject

728
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:43,088
to the Lordship of Christ, this final

729
00:28:43,088 --> 00:28:44,956
enemy will only be swallowed up and

730
00:28:44,956 --> 00:28:46,991
stripped of its sting and victory when

731
00:28:46,991 --> 00:28:48,693
Christ returns on that day.

732
00:28:49,227 --> 00:28:51,730
You guys know the name R.C. Sproul, big

733
00:28:51,730 --> 00:28:54,132
shot Presbyterian guy, good Christian

734
00:28:54,132 --> 00:28:56,067
theologian, da da da da da.

735
00:28:58,169 --> 00:29:01,206
A friend at Church gave me this to read

736
00:29:01,206 --> 00:29:03,908
and it's actually an article on the

737
00:29:03,908 --> 00:29:06,144
necessity of resurrection.

738
00:29:07,045 --> 00:29:08,847
Oddly enough, death does not have the

739
00:29:08,847 --> 00:29:10,715
last word is the name of the article.

740
00:29:12,283 --> 00:29:15,420
But he quotes a Puritan author favorably.

741
00:29:16,821 --> 00:29:17,822
Listen to what he says.

742
00:29:20,024 --> 00:29:23,628
Owen, the author was John Owen, the

743
00:29:23,628 --> 00:29:24,629
Puritan.

744
00:29:25,663 --> 00:29:27,565
In Christ's death he took upon himself

745
00:29:27,565 --> 00:29:29,501
the curse that is inseparably linked to

746
00:29:29,501 --> 00:29:31,469
the punitive measure of death itself.

747
00:29:31,636 --> 00:29:32,270
Well that's right.

748
00:29:33,104 --> 00:29:35,073
Yet for those who put their trust in

749
00:29:35,073 --> 00:29:37,242
Christ that curse is removed so that now

750
00:29:37,242 --> 00:29:39,244
for all who are in Christ death is no

751
00:29:39,244 --> 00:29:40,278
longer a curse.

752
00:29:41,045 --> 00:29:42,213
Okay, let's keep reading.

753
00:29:43,047 --> 00:29:44,415
Its sting has been removed.

754
00:29:45,283 --> 00:29:45,750
Oh really?

755
00:29:52,390 --> 00:29:54,092
If Renee dies today you're going to tell

756
00:29:54,092 --> 00:29:55,593
me that the sting of death has been

757
00:29:55,593 --> 00:29:56,094
removed?

758
00:29:58,830 --> 00:29:59,864
Don't tell me that.

759
00:30:00,565 --> 00:30:01,633
I'll probably hit you.

760
00:30:02,534 --> 00:30:03,134
Then I'll be right.

761
00:30:05,670 --> 00:30:08,072
The mockery of the grave has been

762
00:30:08,072 --> 00:30:10,542
silenced and now death is merely a

763
00:30:10,542 --> 00:30:13,511
transition from this life to the next.

764
00:30:14,379 --> 00:30:14,746
Oh really?

765
00:30:16,147 --> 00:30:17,282
I thought death was death.

766
00:30:19,517 --> 00:30:21,286
The contrast that is given in the New

767
00:30:21,286 --> 00:30:23,087
Testament is not that this life is bad

768
00:30:23,087 --> 00:30:24,455
and the next life is good.

769
00:30:25,156 --> 00:30:26,658
On the contrary the apostle says that

770
00:30:26,658 --> 00:30:28,326
life is good but to die in view of Christ

771
00:30:28,326 --> 00:30:28,860
is better.

772
00:30:29,060 --> 00:30:31,396
So death represents for the believer a

773
00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:33,665
gain, indeed an extraordinary gain.

774
00:30:34,432 --> 00:30:36,601
There is so much manifestly wrong with

775
00:30:36,601 --> 00:30:38,970
this that it would take me a long time to

776
00:30:38,970 --> 00:30:39,938
figure it out.

777
00:30:41,773 --> 00:30:43,007
It's really quite remarkable.

778
00:30:43,775 --> 00:30:45,777
But it's common. It's very common.

779
00:30:46,344 --> 00:30:48,146
Then he goes on to speculate about what

780
00:30:48,146 --> 00:30:50,148
it's like for the soul to be with Christ.

781
00:30:50,915 --> 00:30:51,816
But it's all speculation.

782
00:30:53,451 --> 00:30:55,119
Far from falling asleep we are awakened

783
00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:56,754
to glory and all of its significance.

784
00:31:00,558 --> 00:31:00,992
Question?

785
00:31:03,895 --> 00:31:05,196
Yeah, Ron first.

786
00:31:05,196 --> 00:31:07,565
Above here, the third point is about the

787
00:31:07,565 --> 00:31:09,734
bond, the rest, and the weight of the

788
00:31:09,734 --> 00:31:10,401
priests.

789
00:31:11,803 --> 00:31:13,872
Did I hear people write that there is

790
00:31:13,872 --> 00:31:16,107
some, we are not so sure about, but some

791
00:31:16,107 --> 00:31:17,642
communion with the Lord?

792
00:31:17,809 --> 00:31:18,710
Yeah, I think so.

793
00:31:20,478 --> 00:31:21,446
Again, that's a positive.

794
00:31:22,247 --> 00:31:23,781
Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord,

795
00:31:23,781 --> 00:31:25,250
yes, and they rest from their labors and

796
00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:26,384
their works do follow them.

797
00:31:26,784 --> 00:31:28,253
Isn't that the way it runs or precedes?

798
00:31:28,253 --> 00:31:29,387
Anyway, the works are there.

799
00:31:30,288 --> 00:31:30,955
Yeah, yeah.

800
00:31:31,389 --> 00:31:33,091
And Jesus to the thief on the cross.

801
00:31:33,591 --> 00:31:34,092
Right?

802
00:31:34,392 --> 00:31:36,728
So it's appropriate to say that the

803
00:31:36,728 --> 00:31:39,297
person who is Christian who dies is in

804
00:31:39,297 --> 00:31:41,866
some sense with the Lord in a way that

805
00:31:41,866 --> 00:31:44,469
those of us who are living are not.

806
00:31:44,636 --> 00:31:46,604
Presumably, yeah. No, I think so.

807
00:31:47,105 --> 00:31:48,406
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

808
00:31:48,907 --> 00:31:51,209
This rolls obviously all the way up. How

809
00:31:51,209 --> 00:31:53,444
would you handle preaching in the first

810
00:31:53,444 --> 00:31:55,613
break in 1557 that the O death were in

811
00:31:55,613 --> 00:31:56,447
your sting?

812
00:31:57,348 --> 00:32:00,051
The additional story of the stinker being

813
00:32:00,051 --> 00:32:01,552
removed and all that.

814
00:32:01,552 --> 00:32:02,587
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

815
00:32:03,821 --> 00:32:05,623
I'm happy to utter this phrase.

816
00:32:06,224 --> 00:32:07,792
Future indicative middle deponent third

817
00:32:07,792 --> 00:32:08,226
singular.

818
00:32:08,726 --> 00:32:10,461
Future. Yeah, let's go there. 1

819
00:32:10,461 --> 00:32:11,429
Corinthians 15.

820
00:32:13,031 --> 00:32:13,932
I'm such a geek.

821
00:32:14,666 --> 00:32:16,301
Yeah, that's right. It's Ganesha tie, I'm

822
00:32:16,301 --> 00:32:16,935
happy to say.

823
00:32:17,969 --> 00:32:19,637
I do it for a living. I can't fix cars. I

824
00:32:19,637 --> 00:32:20,605
don't know computers.

825
00:32:21,539 --> 00:32:23,641
I depend on Ben for cheese curds. I mean,

826
00:32:23,641 --> 00:32:25,810
I, you know, but I do this for a living.

827
00:32:26,144 --> 00:32:28,479
So, yeah, let's look at it actually. It's

828
00:32:28,479 --> 00:32:30,682
a future and we read it as if it were a

829
00:32:30,682 --> 00:32:31,149
past.

830
00:32:31,849 --> 00:32:35,553
Yeah, exactly. 1 Corinthians 15 verse.

831
00:32:38,990 --> 00:32:41,726
Yeah, let's start verse 53. John, you

832
00:32:41,726 --> 00:32:43,061
want to read 53.

833
00:32:43,895 --> 00:32:46,464
And if you wouldn't mind emphasizing the

834
00:32:46,464 --> 00:32:48,967
appropriate future in verse 54. So give

835
00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:50,268
us 53 through 55.

836
00:32:51,736 --> 00:32:53,137
This perishable body was put on the

837
00:32:53,137 --> 00:32:53,705
imperishable.

838
00:32:53,938 --> 00:32:55,273
Oh, but that hasn't happened yet.

839
00:32:56,674 --> 00:32:58,042
And this mortal body was put on

840
00:32:58,042 --> 00:32:58,643
immortality.

841
00:32:59,277 --> 00:33:01,512
When the perishable, when the perishable

842
00:33:01,512 --> 00:33:03,781
put on the imperishable, when the mortal

843
00:33:03,781 --> 00:33:05,883
put on immortality, then shall come to

844
00:33:05,883 --> 00:33:07,852
pass the thing that is written.

845
00:33:08,453 --> 00:33:10,355
Death is swallowed up in victory, oh God

846
00:33:10,355 --> 00:33:12,090
there is a victory, oh God there is a

847
00:33:12,090 --> 00:33:12,623
victory.

848
00:33:13,191 --> 00:33:16,828
Yeah, see it hasn't happened yet. Now it

849
00:33:16,828 --> 00:33:20,264
has for Jesus, which is very good news

850
00:33:20,264 --> 00:33:22,533
because we are in Him.

851
00:33:23,735 --> 00:33:25,403
But Paul is talking about the order of

852
00:33:25,403 --> 00:33:27,105
resurrection. As you know, this entire

853
00:33:27,105 --> 00:33:28,906
chapter, and the order is Christ gets to

854
00:33:28,906 --> 00:33:30,708
be raised now. He's the first fruits.

855
00:33:31,275 --> 00:33:33,177
But then those who are Christ are not

856
00:33:33,177 --> 00:33:35,046
raised until his parousia, until it's

857
00:33:35,046 --> 00:33:35,913
coming, right?

858
00:33:36,347 --> 00:33:38,316
And that's the way it works. And so this

859
00:33:38,316 --> 00:33:40,184
promise of the removal of the sting of

860
00:33:40,184 --> 00:33:41,986
death hasn't happened yet for you.

861
00:33:42,653 --> 00:33:44,288
Because you're still mortal and you're

862
00:33:44,288 --> 00:33:45,957
still subject to death and you might in

863
00:33:45,957 --> 00:33:47,492
fact die, although you might not.

864
00:33:48,292 --> 00:33:49,660
So there are only one thing that is

865
00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:50,728
certain and that's taxes.

866
00:33:50,728 --> 00:33:53,531
See, death is not certain. The last

867
00:33:53,531 --> 00:33:56,501
generation of believers will not die.

868
00:33:56,501 --> 00:33:59,470
Although we will be changed. John?

869
00:34:00,571 --> 00:34:02,306
Is this a point for repentance? Is this a

870
00:34:02,306 --> 00:34:03,441
point for the first time?

871
00:34:03,908 --> 00:34:06,544
Yeah, don't do that. Let him who is

872
00:34:06,544 --> 00:34:09,380
without homiletical sin cast the first

873
00:34:09,380 --> 00:34:10,048
stone.

874
00:34:10,615 --> 00:34:13,384
Yeah, yeah, no I've looked back at my old

875
00:34:13,384 --> 00:34:15,920
funeral sermons. You don't want to see

876
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,789
them and I won't let you.

877
00:34:17,789 --> 00:34:20,925
So, yeah, so, no, no, this is fine.

878
00:34:24,796 --> 00:34:26,864
So, what does death mean? This is kind of

879
00:34:26,864 --> 00:34:28,366
in the middle of page three.

880
00:34:30,435 --> 00:34:32,136
Well, when someone dies it simply means

881
00:34:32,136 --> 00:34:33,938
that sin hasn't been fully overcome yet.

882
00:34:34,505 --> 00:34:35,139
Yeah, Mark, go ahead.

883
00:34:36,140 --> 00:34:38,042
I'd like to ask you, are you able to work

884
00:34:38,042 --> 00:34:38,976
on your own death?

885
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:39,911
Yeah.

886
00:34:40,344 --> 00:34:41,846
Is God getting the praise from the Holy

887
00:34:41,846 --> 00:34:42,180
Spirit?

888
00:34:42,780 --> 00:34:44,715
We have 30 men on the left too, so.

889
00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:46,284
What a blessing, huh? Yeah.

890
00:34:47,785 --> 00:34:49,987
You come on the campus to be there for

891
00:34:49,987 --> 00:34:51,689
the family and the friends.

892
00:34:53,658 --> 00:34:56,594
But you're always part guys and you want

893
00:34:56,594 --> 00:34:59,564
to be the office. Today is a great day.

894
00:35:01,732 --> 00:35:04,202
I want to know, my question is, what

895
00:35:04,202 --> 00:35:06,771
would be a gentle, loving, appropriate

896
00:35:06,771 --> 00:35:09,574
response when man works more than his own

897
00:35:09,574 --> 00:35:10,675
perspective?

898
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:11,509
Yeah.

899
00:35:20,785 --> 00:35:23,087
He's mis-speaking. He's mis-speaking,

900
00:35:23,087 --> 00:35:25,623
yeah. Well, obviously, do it privately.

901
00:35:28,526 --> 00:35:30,528
Maybe you could read something together,

902
00:35:30,528 --> 00:35:31,095
you know?

903
00:35:32,663 --> 00:35:34,031
Like this, really, this little N.T.

904
00:35:34,031 --> 00:35:35,500
Wright book that I mentioned is a very

905
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:36,467
wonderful little book.

906
00:35:36,467 --> 00:35:38,236
It's edifying, it's kind of edifying,

907
00:35:38,236 --> 00:35:40,104
it's interesting, Wright is a wonderful

908
00:35:40,104 --> 00:35:42,106
writer, those of you who have experienced

909
00:35:42,106 --> 00:35:42,473
him.

910
00:35:43,074 --> 00:35:45,176
So that might be a place to say, you

911
00:35:45,176 --> 00:35:47,245
know, Frank, I'd really like to talk

912
00:35:47,245 --> 00:35:49,580
about this together because I'm not sure

913
00:35:49,580 --> 00:35:51,516
that's the best thing to say.

914
00:35:52,016 --> 00:35:53,484
And then maybe read something together,

915
00:35:53,484 --> 00:35:53,918
you know?

916
00:35:54,752 --> 00:35:57,355
But, you know, brothers and sisters, what

917
00:35:57,355 --> 00:35:59,657
we have here is a complete worldview

918
00:35:59,657 --> 00:36:01,292
change for some people.

919
00:36:01,993 --> 00:36:05,196
See? And this is not a presentation on

920
00:36:05,196 --> 00:36:08,299
abandoning a functionally platonic or

921
00:36:08,299 --> 00:36:11,669
gnostic worldview, but that's what we're

922
00:36:11,669 --> 00:36:13,604
talking about here.

923
00:36:14,205 --> 00:36:15,940
So I'm rather assuming a lot. So by the

924
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:17,775
way, if I'm saying this and you're going,

925
00:36:17,775 --> 00:36:19,410
man, this sounds really stupid to me,

926
00:36:19,410 --> 00:36:20,111
that's okay.

927
00:36:20,244 --> 00:36:22,113
I have been wrong before. I think I was

928
00:36:22,113 --> 00:36:23,281
wrong once back in 98.

929
00:36:23,281 --> 00:36:27,685
No, so really, I'm covering a lot of

930
00:36:27,685 --> 00:36:31,255
ground here, a lot. Jeremy?

931
00:36:44,268 --> 00:36:47,972
Yeah, death was actually being crueler

932
00:36:47,972 --> 00:36:51,609
then. It tortured him until it killed

933
00:36:51,609 --> 00:36:52,276
him.

934
00:36:53,277 --> 00:36:54,679
I mean, I've heard from him, you know,

935
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:56,047
that it's too pre-surrogate, but it's

936
00:36:56,047 --> 00:36:56,914
still not happening.

937
00:36:57,548 --> 00:37:00,585
That, you know, some say that no, because

938
00:37:00,585 --> 00:37:03,454
they are, right, death is a blessing.

939
00:37:03,921 --> 00:37:06,424
I know, it would be fair to say that by

940
00:37:06,424 --> 00:37:08,793
the grace of God, in death, there's a

941
00:37:08,793 --> 00:37:10,895
blessing in death, but it's not a

942
00:37:10,895 --> 00:37:12,296
constant of death.

943
00:37:12,463 --> 00:37:14,098
Yeah, yeah, that's nice. I like that,

944
00:37:14,098 --> 00:37:14,398
yeah.

945
00:37:14,865 --> 00:37:16,534
And I've used this image before. It's

946
00:37:16,534 --> 00:37:18,369
like a false summit. Anybody hike in the

947
00:37:18,369 --> 00:37:18,970
mountains?

948
00:37:19,604 --> 00:37:21,172
You know, you're hiking and you think

949
00:37:21,172 --> 00:37:22,873
you're there, and then you get there and

950
00:37:22,873 --> 00:37:24,141
dang, you're not there yet.

951
00:37:24,909 --> 00:37:26,577
See, now the view from the false summit

952
00:37:26,577 --> 00:37:28,246
is pretty good, but it's not the top.

953
00:37:29,647 --> 00:37:31,415
I mean, it is now you're close to the

954
00:37:31,415 --> 00:37:33,417
top. And all you've got to do is try that

955
00:37:33,417 --> 00:37:34,819
once or twice, and you go,

956
00:37:34,952 --> 00:37:36,520
yeah, this is really good, but dang. Of

957
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,055
course, you have to work to get there,

958
00:37:38,055 --> 00:37:39,590
and Jesus pulls you to the top of the

959
00:37:39,590 --> 00:37:41,192
summit by raising you from the dead.

960
00:37:41,192 --> 00:37:44,595
But yeah, so yeah, there's lots of ways

961
00:37:44,595 --> 00:37:48,165
to do it, but I like the distinction that

962
00:37:48,165 --> 00:37:49,200
you made.

963
00:37:50,601 --> 00:37:52,770
Yeah, but may I say this as well?

964
00:37:56,574 --> 00:37:59,677
This is a profound shift in worldview,

965
00:37:59,677 --> 00:38:02,980
and so if you find that you're trying to

966
00:38:02,980 --> 00:38:06,584
communicate and people aren't getting it,

967
00:38:06,584 --> 00:38:08,619
or you're being misunderstood, I mean, I

968
00:38:08,619 --> 00:38:10,554
can't tell you the number of times I've

969
00:38:10,554 --> 00:38:11,622
been misunderstood

970
00:38:13,824 --> 00:38:15,893
as if I'm advocating soul sleep or soul

971
00:38:15,893 --> 00:38:17,862
annihilation, which I absolutely have

972
00:38:17,862 --> 00:38:19,497
never thought that was true,

973
00:38:19,563 --> 00:38:20,998
because the Bible doesn't let us think

974
00:38:20,998 --> 00:38:21,866
those things are true.

975
00:38:23,501 --> 00:38:26,804
But this kind of, well, just last week I

976
00:38:26,804 --> 00:38:30,107
got an email from a pastor about this,

977
00:38:30,107 --> 00:38:32,510
and he was going to try to teach and

978
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:35,079
preach with the return of Christ firmly

979
00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:37,982
in view and the resurrection of the body,

980
00:38:38,049 --> 00:38:39,884
and I said, you're going to stir up a

981
00:38:39,884 --> 00:38:41,619
hornet's nest, see, because a lot of

982
00:38:41,619 --> 00:38:43,387
Christians have said the creed their

983
00:38:43,387 --> 00:38:44,121
whole life,

984
00:38:44,121 --> 00:38:47,925
and they've never thought about it once,

985
00:38:47,925 --> 00:38:48,693
right?

986
00:38:49,727 --> 00:38:51,495
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy

987
00:38:51,495 --> 00:38:53,064
Christian Church, the communion of

988
00:38:53,064 --> 00:38:54,665
saints, the forgiveness of sins,

989
00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:59,003
the resurrection of the body, and the

990
00:38:59,003 --> 00:39:00,371
life everlasting.

991
00:39:02,773 --> 00:39:05,609
You don't, yeah, so anyway, so here's the

992
00:39:05,609 --> 00:39:06,077
deal.

993
00:39:07,345 --> 00:39:09,747
Be gentle, be patient, pretend that you

994
00:39:09,747 --> 00:39:12,216
love God's people even if you don't, you

995
00:39:12,216 --> 00:39:12,717
know?

996
00:39:13,584 --> 00:39:15,986
And really, some people, my own mother is

997
00:39:15,986 --> 00:39:17,421
a functional Platonist.

998
00:39:18,489 --> 00:39:19,790
She doesn't care about her body, she

999
00:39:19,790 --> 00:39:21,158
doesn't care about the world, she just

1000
00:39:21,158 --> 00:39:22,360
wants to die and go to heaven.

1001
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,695
Well, that's fine, Jesus will fix that on

1002
00:39:24,695 --> 00:39:25,563
the last day.

1003
00:39:27,264 --> 00:39:29,834
She'll wake up and go, oh my, here I am

1004
00:39:29,834 --> 00:39:31,202
at the summit, see?

1005
00:39:31,669 --> 00:39:34,705
So don't be mean about this, but you have

1006
00:39:34,705 --> 00:39:37,375
to be really patient, because you're

1007
00:39:37,375 --> 00:39:39,610
asking people in some cases to

1008
00:39:39,610 --> 00:39:40,778
interchange,

1009
00:39:41,345 --> 00:39:43,647
to change their old world view with the

1010
00:39:43,647 --> 00:39:44,515
biblical one.

1011
00:39:45,316 --> 00:39:46,717
And it's not like they're heretic or

1012
00:39:46,717 --> 00:39:48,252
unsaved or something like that, so see,

1013
00:39:48,252 --> 00:39:49,186
that's not the deal.

1014
00:39:49,186 --> 00:39:51,655
So you don't have to do that.

1015
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:53,924
And we've got at least three or four good

1016
00:39:53,924 --> 00:39:55,426
comments, but I'm going to relentlessly

1017
00:39:55,426 --> 00:39:56,026
push forward.

1018
00:39:57,228 --> 00:39:58,529
Especially in the case of you, because I

1019
00:39:58,529 --> 00:39:59,830
have no idea what you're going to say.

1020
00:40:00,731 --> 00:40:01,766
Yeah, so I'm just going to keep going

1021
00:40:01,766 --> 00:40:02,400
here on this outline.

1022
00:40:02,867 --> 00:40:05,569
Okay, yeah, good, okay, yeah, thank you.

1023
00:40:06,871 --> 00:40:08,472
I should have wore a tie, that's what I

1024
00:40:08,472 --> 00:40:09,273
should have done.

1025
00:40:12,243 --> 00:40:14,478
See, what does death mean? This is point

1026
00:40:14,478 --> 00:40:14,812
two.

1027
00:40:14,812 --> 00:40:16,947
It means that sin has not yet been fully

1028
00:40:16,947 --> 00:40:18,983
overcome. Forgiven yes, overcome no.

1029
00:40:19,550 --> 00:40:21,652
Sin has once again manifested itself. A

1030
00:40:21,652 --> 00:40:23,721
sinner has died, that's why you die.

1031
00:40:24,355 --> 00:40:27,024
That's why Jesus died, right? Because God

1032
00:40:27,024 --> 00:40:28,392
made him to be sin.

1033
00:40:28,926 --> 00:40:30,895
That's why Jesus died. Call it state of

1034
00:40:30,895 --> 00:40:32,963
humiliation, call it whatever you want.

1035
00:40:33,564 --> 00:40:35,666
Jesus of Nazareth died because he took

1036
00:40:35,666 --> 00:40:37,735
the place of the sinner. That's why he

1037
00:40:37,735 --> 00:40:38,169
died.

1038
00:40:38,669 --> 00:40:40,771
That's why you die, because you're a

1039
00:40:40,771 --> 00:40:41,272
sinner.

1040
00:40:42,673 --> 00:40:44,775
That's why Adam and Eve died, right?

1041
00:40:46,811 --> 00:40:48,746
When someone dies, one of God's human

1042
00:40:48,746 --> 00:40:50,714
creatures has very strangely been torn

1043
00:40:50,714 --> 00:40:52,116
asunder into two pieces.

1044
00:40:52,283 --> 00:40:54,418
We are not composed of parts. We're human

1045
00:40:54,418 --> 00:40:56,487
beings, right? We're body and soul in it

1046
00:40:56,487 --> 00:40:57,121
together.

1047
00:40:57,254 --> 00:40:59,323
But death tears us apart. Pieper says

1048
00:40:59,323 --> 00:41:00,391
this, volume one.

1049
00:41:01,192 --> 00:41:03,027
This division is not pleasing to God and

1050
00:41:03,027 --> 00:41:04,428
not a part of his great plan.

1051
00:41:05,296 --> 00:41:07,031
Now this is interesting. See, as terrible

1052
00:41:07,031 --> 00:41:08,699
as death is, guess what it cannot do?

1053
00:41:08,699 --> 00:41:11,202
It cannot separate you from the love of

1054
00:41:11,202 --> 00:41:13,604
God, which is yours in Christ Jesus.

1055
00:41:13,804 --> 00:41:15,739
Neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor

1056
00:41:15,739 --> 00:41:17,408
principalities, Romans 8, right?

1057
00:41:18,075 --> 00:41:20,010
So, in a sense, that's a glory of the

1058
00:41:20,010 --> 00:41:20,945
power of Christ.

1059
00:41:21,245 --> 00:41:23,047
Is that as terrible as this is, have you

1060
00:41:23,047 --> 00:41:24,348
been separated from Christ?

1061
00:41:24,448 --> 00:41:27,117
The answer is not even close. Jesus is

1062
00:41:27,117 --> 00:41:29,386
with you and you are with him.

1063
00:41:29,954 --> 00:41:32,223
And Ron, as you said, in some way, and

1064
00:41:32,223 --> 00:41:34,191
Pieper used the word augmented,

1065
00:41:34,592 --> 00:41:36,794
in some sense the communion with Christ

1066
00:41:36,794 --> 00:41:38,496
must be closer or something.

1067
00:41:38,696 --> 00:41:41,699
Although we don't know too much of what

1068
00:41:41,699 --> 00:41:42,933
that might be.

1069
00:41:44,668 --> 00:41:46,704
What's happened is that a person has

1070
00:41:46,704 --> 00:41:47,104
died.

1071
00:41:48,506 --> 00:41:50,341
Sometimes we say, well, just the body

1072
00:41:50,341 --> 00:41:50,674
dies.

1073
00:41:51,408 --> 00:41:55,746
No, no, a person dies. You die, right?

1074
00:41:56,647 --> 00:41:58,849
Not the body only, but the person. As a

1075
00:41:58,849 --> 00:42:00,851
result of this, the body begins the

1076
00:42:00,851 --> 00:42:02,953
process of returning dust to dust.

1077
00:42:02,953 --> 00:42:05,723
The soul, in a real but largely undefined

1078
00:42:05,723 --> 00:42:08,058
and undescribed way, experiences an

1079
00:42:08,058 --> 00:42:10,227
existence that the New Testament

1080
00:42:10,227 --> 00:42:13,163
variously describes briefly as paradise.

1081
00:42:13,664 --> 00:42:15,399
That's Luke 23, being with Christ,

1082
00:42:15,399 --> 00:42:17,268
Philippians 1, rest from the labors,

1083
00:42:17,268 --> 00:42:19,270
Revelation 12, being away from the body

1084
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:21,338
and at home with the Lord, 2 Corinthians

1085
00:42:21,338 --> 00:42:21,705
5.

1086
00:42:22,506 --> 00:42:24,608
Much more than this we can and should not

1087
00:42:24,608 --> 00:42:24,909
say.

1088
00:42:25,609 --> 00:42:28,546
Is the person in the grave? Yes. Is the

1089
00:42:28,546 --> 00:42:31,649
person in peace with Christ? Yes. Both.

1090
00:42:33,717 --> 00:42:36,086
And, by the way, and this really is

1091
00:42:36,086 --> 00:42:38,622
pertinent to the funeral itself and to

1092
00:42:38,622 --> 00:42:41,058
the family, human community has been

1093
00:42:41,058 --> 00:42:41,926
ruptured.

1094
00:42:42,626 --> 00:42:44,228
Human vocations have ceased.

1095
00:42:46,497 --> 00:42:48,132
Haven't you ever noticed all the times

1096
00:42:48,132 --> 00:42:49,800
the psalmist scream out and say, God, I

1097
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,668
don't want to die?

1098
00:42:52,703 --> 00:42:55,239
Save me from Sheol. I don't want to die.

1099
00:42:55,773 --> 00:42:57,474
Can the dead praise you, O God? The

1100
00:42:57,474 --> 00:42:59,510
psalmist says. And the expected answer is

1101
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:59,910
what?

1102
00:43:00,611 --> 00:43:01,011
No.

1103
00:43:03,047 --> 00:43:04,848
See, it's a good thing to be alive. As

1104
00:43:04,848 --> 00:43:06,684
Paul Rabbi says, I don't want to die. I

1105
00:43:06,684 --> 00:43:08,586
want to go to church, he says. I want to

1106
00:43:08,586 --> 00:43:09,620
sing in the choir.

1107
00:43:10,054 --> 00:43:12,656
See, that's the way Paul says it.

1108
00:43:13,624 --> 00:43:15,726
I was going around for all asking people

1109
00:43:15,726 --> 00:43:17,895
this question. Is it better to be dead or

1110
00:43:17,895 --> 00:43:18,395
alive?

1111
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:23,267
Physically dead or physically alive?

1112
00:43:24,401 --> 00:43:26,070
And people wanted to say alive, but they

1113
00:43:26,070 --> 00:43:27,771
feel guilty. They thought they had to say

1114
00:43:27,771 --> 00:43:28,405
somehow dead.

1115
00:43:28,405 --> 00:43:31,241
And I asked my wife, who had just taken

1116
00:43:31,241 --> 00:43:33,911
Confessions with Aaron, and she said,

1117
00:43:33,911 --> 00:43:34,545
Alive!

1118
00:43:35,145 --> 00:43:36,614
Of course, she's an optimist, right?

1119
00:43:37,147 --> 00:43:38,682
I said, Alive! And I said, Why? She said,

1120
00:43:38,682 --> 00:43:40,250
Well, if you're dead, you can't carry out

1121
00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:40,884
your vocation.

1122
00:43:44,588 --> 00:43:45,956
If you're dead, you can't love your

1123
00:43:45,956 --> 00:43:46,390
neighbor.

1124
00:43:47,024 --> 00:43:49,593
I said, That's a good Lutheran answer,

1125
00:43:49,593 --> 00:43:51,261
sweetie. That was good.

1126
00:43:53,864 --> 00:43:56,300
The appropriate reaction to death is not,

1127
00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:57,935
Mark, this is a great day.

1128
00:43:58,836 --> 00:44:00,471
Yeah, that's not the appropriate

1129
00:44:00,471 --> 00:44:02,473
reaction. Although every day in the Lord

1130
00:44:02,473 --> 00:44:03,807
is in some sense great,

1131
00:44:04,375 --> 00:44:06,677
but the reaction is faithful mourning and

1132
00:44:06,677 --> 00:44:08,812
looking to God in Christ for his truth

1133
00:44:08,812 --> 00:44:09,880
and his promise.

1134
00:44:10,147 --> 00:44:12,116
So, in light of Easter and the necessity,

1135
00:44:12,116 --> 00:44:13,851
apparently Jesus had to rise from the

1136
00:44:13,851 --> 00:44:15,619
dead. Is everybody good with that?

1137
00:44:16,020 --> 00:44:17,855
It wasn't enough for Jesus just to die.

1138
00:44:18,956 --> 00:44:21,225
It was necessary for him to complete the

1139
00:44:21,225 --> 00:44:23,460
work of our salvation, to rise from the

1140
00:44:23,460 --> 00:44:24,194
dead. Why?

1141
00:44:24,461 --> 00:44:26,463
Because death is bad. That's why.

1142
00:44:28,032 --> 00:44:30,167
It's clear enough that God's solution for

1143
00:44:30,167 --> 00:44:32,002
death, his answer to the problem is

1144
00:44:32,002 --> 00:44:32,870
resurrection.

1145
00:44:33,337 --> 00:44:35,172
Death is not a part of life, it's the

1146
00:44:35,172 --> 00:44:36,106
opposite of life.

1147
00:44:37,041 --> 00:44:38,742
It took me about 15 years to figure that

1148
00:44:38,742 --> 00:44:39,176
one out.

1149
00:44:39,610 --> 00:44:41,745
Why is death not a part of life? Because

1150
00:44:41,745 --> 00:44:43,213
it's the opposite of life.

1151
00:44:43,414 --> 00:44:43,814
That's right.

1152
00:44:45,215 --> 00:44:47,518
See, resurrection, it's found in Jesus by

1153
00:44:47,518 --> 00:44:49,853
faith through baptism now and on the last

1154
00:44:49,853 --> 00:44:50,254
day.

1155
00:44:50,387 --> 00:44:52,256
Accordingly, the funeral sermon, like

1156
00:44:52,256 --> 00:44:53,891
every sermon, will textually and

1157
00:44:53,891 --> 00:44:55,426
appropriately and creatively

1158
00:44:56,493 --> 00:44:58,262
and probably briefly, I don't think

1159
00:44:58,262 --> 00:45:00,264
funeral sermons should be long, proclaim

1160
00:45:00,264 --> 00:45:00,731
Jesus.

1161
00:45:00,998 --> 00:45:02,266
So, what is the content of the

1162
00:45:02,266 --> 00:45:02,933
proclamation?

1163
00:45:04,435 --> 00:45:07,604
Jesus, who died in our place since death

1164
00:45:07,604 --> 00:45:10,374
is an enemy that we deserve to face

1165
00:45:10,374 --> 00:45:12,342
without his mediation,

1166
00:45:13,711 --> 00:45:15,112
and who is risen from the dead.

1167
00:45:15,746 --> 00:45:18,716
Jesus, risen and ascended, who in the

1168
00:45:18,716 --> 00:45:21,518
present raises dead people to life,

1169
00:45:21,518 --> 00:45:23,554
baptismally, by faith.

1170
00:45:23,554 --> 00:45:27,124
Jesus, who is coming again to raise first

1171
00:45:27,124 --> 00:45:29,560
the dead in Christ, right?

1172
00:45:30,194 --> 00:45:32,496
And those who are still alive will be

1173
00:45:32,496 --> 00:45:34,264
transformed when he comes.

1174
00:45:34,732 --> 00:45:37,334
And then he will subject, 1 Corinthians,

1175
00:45:37,334 --> 00:45:39,837
every enemy, including death, and thus

1176
00:45:39,837 --> 00:45:41,271
restore all things.

1177
00:45:43,307 --> 00:45:46,944
And it's not, if you keep this hope in

1178
00:45:46,944 --> 00:45:49,513
mind, it's not that hard.

1179
00:45:49,513 --> 00:45:52,983
I think it's not that hard to preach a

1180
00:45:52,983 --> 00:45:56,253
funeral sermon that extols the great

1181
00:45:56,253 --> 00:45:57,888
Christian hope.

1182
00:45:58,355 --> 00:46:00,424
So if you look at this second one that's

1183
00:46:00,424 --> 00:46:02,426
appended there, this funeral I preached

1184
00:46:02,426 --> 00:46:04,361
for our great friend, Vonda Berger,

1185
00:46:04,495 --> 00:46:06,396
that was really hard to do.

1186
00:46:08,365 --> 00:46:09,867
And Gerald and Vonda had planned the

1187
00:46:09,867 --> 00:46:11,568
funeral and then picked the text and then

1188
00:46:11,568 --> 00:46:12,503
asked me to preach.

1189
00:46:13,504 --> 00:46:15,172
And these people have been our friends

1190
00:46:15,172 --> 00:46:15,739
since 1970.

1191
00:46:16,373 --> 00:46:17,808
Gerald and Renee knew each other in

1192
00:46:17,808 --> 00:46:19,376
Walther League, for crying out loud.

1193
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:21,712
That kind of tells you how old we are.

1194
00:46:22,980 --> 00:46:24,748
And they picked Isaiah 43, do not be

1195
00:46:24,748 --> 00:46:26,750
afraid, I've called you by name, and they

1196
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:28,752
picked the famous Jeremiah 29 passage.

1197
00:46:29,686 --> 00:46:33,190
So I wanted to show you how I worked with

1198
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:34,725
the Jeremiah 29.

1199
00:46:35,993 --> 00:46:38,328
We have just a few minutes, so I thought

1200
00:46:38,328 --> 00:46:40,731
I would just read the tail end of this on

1201
00:46:40,731 --> 00:46:41,198
page,

1202
00:46:41,732 --> 00:46:45,803
well it's got a two at the back, and kind

1203
00:46:45,803 --> 00:46:49,206
of in the middle is the quote from

1204
00:46:49,206 --> 00:46:50,707
Jeremiah 29.

1205
00:46:52,509 --> 00:46:54,444
So I'm just going to read this, and then

1206
00:46:54,444 --> 00:46:56,213
if we have some time we can talk some

1207
00:46:56,213 --> 00:46:56,613
more.

1208
00:46:58,215 --> 00:47:00,083
So Jeremiah 29, and these are our good

1209
00:47:00,083 --> 00:47:01,985
friends, and I could get away with some

1210
00:47:01,985 --> 00:47:02,953
jokes and things,

1211
00:47:03,086 --> 00:47:05,155
you know, just because we knew them, and

1212
00:47:05,155 --> 00:47:07,024
it was a very Christian, it's a very

1213
00:47:07,024 --> 00:47:09,059
Christian family, if I could say it that

1214
00:47:09,059 --> 00:47:09,493
way.

1215
00:47:10,494 --> 00:47:12,296
So a lot of this is contextual, it

1216
00:47:12,296 --> 00:47:14,364
emerges out of the relationship that we

1217
00:47:14,364 --> 00:47:16,166
have with them and the context.

1218
00:47:17,201 --> 00:47:18,702
So Jeremiah, for thus says the Lord, when

1219
00:47:18,702 --> 00:47:20,237
seventy years are completed for Babylon,

1220
00:47:20,404 --> 00:47:22,239
I will visit you and I will fulfill to

1221
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,241
you my promise and bring you back to this

1222
00:47:24,241 --> 00:47:24,675
place,

1223
00:47:24,741 --> 00:47:26,543
for I know the plans I have for you,

1224
00:47:26,543 --> 00:47:28,478
declares the Lord, plans for wholeness

1225
00:47:28,478 --> 00:47:30,414
and not for evil, to give you a future

1226
00:47:30,414 --> 00:47:31,148
and a hope.

1227
00:47:32,249 --> 00:47:33,517
And now the sermon continues.

1228
00:47:34,651 --> 00:47:36,220
This ancient word was for Israel, they

1229
00:47:36,220 --> 00:47:37,287
had lost their identity,

1230
00:47:37,287 --> 00:47:38,755
they didn't listen to Isaiah and the

1231
00:47:38,755 --> 00:47:40,424
other prophets, and they went after other

1232
00:47:40,424 --> 00:47:40,757
gods,

1233
00:47:40,757 --> 00:47:42,860
and God sent them away to be in exile and

1234
00:47:42,860 --> 00:47:44,761
to face a life harder than they could

1235
00:47:44,761 --> 00:47:45,629
have imagined.

1236
00:47:46,396 --> 00:47:48,165
The ancient story of Israel is the story

1237
00:47:48,165 --> 00:47:49,233
of a failure in a way.

1238
00:47:49,833 --> 00:47:51,602
People who could never bring themselves

1239
00:47:51,602 --> 00:47:53,403
to trust God, and they suffered terribly

1240
00:47:53,403 --> 00:47:54,271
because of that.

1241
00:47:55,272 --> 00:47:57,107
The amazing thing about the ancient story

1242
00:47:57,107 --> 00:47:58,775
of Israel is that God never gave up.

1243
00:47:59,076 --> 00:48:01,345
He sent Jeremiah to say two things. The

1244
00:48:01,345 --> 00:48:03,714
first is this, you forgot who you were.

1245
00:48:03,714 --> 00:48:05,616
You were supposed to be mine, but you ran

1246
00:48:05,616 --> 00:48:07,551
away from me and went after other gods.

1247
00:48:08,285 --> 00:48:09,987
The second thing was this, my arms are

1248
00:48:09,987 --> 00:48:11,488
open wide and I still want you.

1249
00:48:12,155 --> 00:48:13,557
In your exile in Babylon, in your

1250
00:48:13,557 --> 00:48:15,225
suffering and your uncertainty, and you

1251
00:48:15,225 --> 00:48:16,660
don't know what lies in store,

1252
00:48:16,994 --> 00:48:19,263
I know the plans I have for you, says the

1253
00:48:19,263 --> 00:48:19,630
Lord.

1254
00:48:19,796 --> 00:48:21,565
I will bring you back to your land, I

1255
00:48:21,565 --> 00:48:23,567
will be your God, you will be my people.

1256
00:48:25,269 --> 00:48:26,336
It didn't work very well.

1257
00:48:27,638 --> 00:48:29,473
Yes, God brought Israel, or some, back

1258
00:48:29,473 --> 00:48:31,375
from the exile as he promised, but they

1259
00:48:31,375 --> 00:48:32,576
were still like sheep,

1260
00:48:32,576 --> 00:48:34,478
like lost sheep without a shepherd, but

1261
00:48:34,478 --> 00:48:36,313
that didn't stop the God who made the

1262
00:48:36,313 --> 00:48:37,481
heaven and the earth.

1263
00:48:37,681 --> 00:48:39,049
He sent them a shepherd.

1264
00:48:40,350 --> 00:48:41,818
But they didn't want what the shepherd

1265
00:48:41,818 --> 00:48:43,453
offered them. They didn't want His plan.

1266
00:48:44,288 --> 00:48:46,189
They were as stubborn and sinful, if you

1267
00:48:46,189 --> 00:48:48,125
can believe it, as stubborn and sinful as

1268
00:48:48,125 --> 00:48:48,525
I am,

1269
00:48:48,926 --> 00:48:52,129
as you are, as Vonda was.

1270
00:48:52,229 --> 00:48:53,797
See, I think it's important to name the

1271
00:48:53,797 --> 00:48:55,265
dead person as a sinner. I think it's

1272
00:48:55,265 --> 00:48:55,799
important.

1273
00:48:57,935 --> 00:48:59,670
As all of us are who are mortal, every

1274
00:48:59,670 --> 00:49:01,438
single one who is mortal and subject to

1275
00:49:01,438 --> 00:49:01,872
death,

1276
00:49:02,572 --> 00:49:03,740
we are sinners.

1277
00:49:04,341 --> 00:49:06,910
So, the shepherd was betrayed, and he let

1278
00:49:06,910 --> 00:49:09,246
it happen because he believed in God's

1279
00:49:09,246 --> 00:49:09,746
plan.

1280
00:49:10,847 --> 00:49:12,249
And they tried to send Him away like

1281
00:49:12,249 --> 00:49:13,250
sending him into exile.

1282
00:49:13,383 --> 00:49:14,818
They killed him and they got rid of Him

1283
00:49:14,818 --> 00:49:15,252
for good.

1284
00:49:15,385 --> 00:49:17,020
They buried Him in a tomb made out of

1285
00:49:17,020 --> 00:49:18,822
rock and they rolled a big heavy stone in

1286
00:49:18,822 --> 00:49:20,090
front and they went away.

1287
00:49:20,624 --> 00:49:24,194
But God said to His Son, I know the plans

1288
00:49:24,194 --> 00:49:25,696
I have for you.

1289
00:49:25,929 --> 00:49:28,565
See the hermeneutic there? It's Israel,

1290
00:49:28,565 --> 00:49:31,368
Jesus is Israel, and now in Him we get to

1291
00:49:31,368 --> 00:49:32,235
be Israel.

1292
00:49:32,769 --> 00:49:34,504
I had dispensationalists coming after me

1293
00:49:34,504 --> 00:49:36,239
saying, that was really a cool sermon.

1294
00:49:39,109 --> 00:49:40,344
Baptist pastors, right?

1295
00:49:42,346 --> 00:49:44,047
God said to His Son, I know the plans I

1296
00:49:44,047 --> 00:49:44,715
have for you.

1297
00:49:44,848 --> 00:49:46,316
And no plan of man, not death by

1298
00:49:46,316 --> 00:49:48,051
crucifixion, could stop God's plan in

1299
00:49:48,051 --> 00:49:48,485
Jesus.

1300
00:49:48,652 --> 00:49:50,988
God raised His Son from the dead and

1301
00:49:50,988 --> 00:49:53,690
Jesus lives because God loves Him and God

1302
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:54,458
loves you

1303
00:49:54,458 --> 00:49:56,326
and He wants to give you an identity that

1304
00:49:56,326 --> 00:49:58,061
nothing can take away and a future with

1305
00:49:58,061 --> 00:49:58,495
Jesus.

1306
00:49:59,863 --> 00:50:02,165
We're still in exile. Things are not as

1307
00:50:02,165 --> 00:50:03,166
they should be.

1308
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:05,469
And death was never part of God's plan.

1309
00:50:05,769 --> 00:50:08,038
But death will not, see here it comes,

1310
00:50:08,038 --> 00:50:10,374
see it's not that hard, see, death will

1311
00:50:10,374 --> 00:50:11,908
not have the last word.

1312
00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:14,411
Yes, our sister Vonda, who trusted in the

1313
00:50:14,411 --> 00:50:16,413
God who called her by name, is resting

1314
00:50:16,413 --> 00:50:18,048
now, resting with Jesus, yes.

1315
00:50:18,315 --> 00:50:20,150
But God is not finished with Vonda Burger

1316
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:22,085
and God is not finished with this world.

1317
00:50:22,152 --> 00:50:24,054
And He is not finished with you and me.

1318
00:50:24,154 --> 00:50:26,256
He says, I know the plans I have for you,

1319
00:50:26,256 --> 00:50:28,191
plans to give you a future and hope.

1320
00:50:28,492 --> 00:50:30,894
His plan, His timing, His day.

1321
00:50:31,528 --> 00:50:33,263
Someday you feel confident that it's

1322
00:50:33,263 --> 00:50:33,930
coming soon.

1323
00:50:34,331 --> 00:50:36,433
Someday it will feel like it's never

1324
00:50:36,433 --> 00:50:37,467
going to happen.

1325
00:50:38,068 --> 00:50:40,003
But it's His plan and He knows and it

1326
00:50:40,003 --> 00:50:40,637
will come.

1327
00:50:41,104 --> 00:50:43,206
Jesus will come and with His unthinkable

1328
00:50:43,206 --> 00:50:45,242
power and love that nothing can stop,

1329
00:50:45,575 --> 00:50:47,544
He will have his way with our death just

1330
00:50:47,544 --> 00:50:49,546
as He had his way with death long ago.

1331
00:50:49,846 --> 00:50:51,782
I know the plans I have for you.

1332
00:50:52,049 --> 00:50:53,617
My friend Gerald plays the accordion and

1333
00:50:53,617 --> 00:50:55,118
I've been kidding him about this for 30

1334
00:50:55,118 --> 00:50:55,485
years.

1335
00:50:55,619 --> 00:50:56,453
That's why this next part.

1336
00:50:56,453 --> 00:50:58,388
There will be a trumpet Gerald, a trumpet

1337
00:50:58,388 --> 00:50:59,489
and not an accordion.

1338
00:51:00,357 --> 00:51:01,925
We will get to hear the voice of the

1339
00:51:01,925 --> 00:51:03,660
archangel and the God of life will renew

1340
00:51:03,660 --> 00:51:05,295
the earth and there won't be any more

1341
00:51:05,295 --> 00:51:05,729
death.

1342
00:51:06,096 --> 00:51:08,331
And Jesus will raise Vonda up to stand

1343
00:51:08,331 --> 00:51:10,500
and be strong along with everyone who

1344
00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:11,201
believes,

1345
00:51:11,768 --> 00:51:13,336
everyone who finds their identity in

1346
00:51:13,336 --> 00:51:15,072
Jesus, everyone to whom God has promised

1347
00:51:15,072 --> 00:51:16,073
a future and a hope.

1348
00:51:16,373 --> 00:51:19,576
The day is coming. He is coming soon.

1349
00:51:19,776 --> 00:51:23,113
Until then, God says, do not be afraid.

1350
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,015
I have rescued you. I have called you by

1351
00:51:25,015 --> 00:51:25,949
name. You are mine.

1352
00:51:26,450 --> 00:51:28,618
In the name of the Father, Son and Holy

1353
00:51:28,618 --> 00:51:29,486
Spirit. Amen.

1354
00:51:29,619 --> 00:51:33,056
See, it's not that hard. You proclaim the

1355
00:51:33,056 --> 00:51:35,325
resurrection of the body.

1356
00:51:36,793 --> 00:51:38,428
Because you have a dead body there. You

1357
00:51:38,428 --> 00:51:39,596
have a dead person there.

1358
00:51:39,996 --> 00:51:41,631
So you give them the promise of Christ.

1359
00:51:42,732 --> 00:51:44,401
And then their eyes start shining and

1360
00:51:44,401 --> 00:51:44,935
they cry.

1361
00:51:45,869 --> 00:51:47,204
And that's good. And then you have

1362
00:51:47,204 --> 00:51:47,604
potluck.

1363
00:51:50,307 --> 00:51:52,008
And you become Lord Jesus.

1364
00:51:53,477 --> 00:51:55,278
Exactly. Yeah, that's right. Lonnie.

1365
00:51:56,613 --> 00:51:58,482
I think this is good.

1366
00:52:04,054 --> 00:52:04,988
Yes? Baptism.

1367
00:52:05,188 --> 00:52:06,590
Yeah, if you can't hear. A little louder,

1368
00:52:06,590 --> 00:52:07,691
Lonnie. So everybody can hear.

1369
00:52:09,126 --> 00:52:11,428
About baptism. The importance of baptism.

1370
00:52:12,629 --> 00:52:14,431
What do you think about the baptism?

1371
00:52:15,932 --> 00:52:17,667
Yeah, the Paul over there. I think it's a

1372
00:52:17,667 --> 00:52:19,035
beautiful symbol. It needs to be

1373
00:52:19,035 --> 00:52:19,569
explained.

1374
00:52:19,736 --> 00:52:22,005
Yeah, as a teaching device.

1375
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:23,807
How would you explain it?

1376
00:52:24,574 --> 00:52:26,109
Well, some of the liturgical forms

1377
00:52:26,109 --> 00:52:27,110
actually explain it.

1378
00:52:27,210 --> 00:52:29,112
They simply state what's going on here

1379
00:52:29,112 --> 00:52:30,547
when you put the Paul over.

1380
00:52:31,348 --> 00:52:33,750
Yeah, right. And you know Galatians 5.

1381
00:52:34,584 --> 00:52:36,620
You put on Christ and covered with Christ

1382
00:52:36,620 --> 00:52:37,387
and all that.

1383
00:52:37,721 --> 00:52:39,589
Yeah. No, no, those symbols.

1384
00:52:40,524 --> 00:52:41,858
Again, we've been talking about imagery a

1385
00:52:41,858 --> 00:52:42,058
lot.

1386
00:52:42,325 --> 00:52:44,127
Very powerful pictures and people will

1387
00:52:44,127 --> 00:52:44,895
remember that.

1388
00:52:45,228 --> 00:52:46,963
But you do have to interpret it and

1389
00:52:46,963 --> 00:52:48,331
teach. That's right. Dan?

1390
00:52:50,133 --> 00:52:52,836
Two quick questions. If you could explain

1391
00:52:52,836 --> 00:52:55,472
more what you feel about baptism and not

1392
00:52:55,472 --> 00:52:57,307
the preaching of baptism.

1393
00:52:58,074 --> 00:53:00,310
I think that's actually the explanation

1394
00:53:00,310 --> 00:53:02,679
for what you're going to do for the great

1395
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:03,380
or false.

1396
00:53:03,647 --> 00:53:04,748
I think that's a little too practical.

1397
00:53:05,982 --> 00:53:09,019
I know. I think, I don't understand. I'll

1398
00:53:09,019 --> 00:53:10,654
say two things, Dan.

1399
00:53:10,754 --> 00:53:13,056
One is, Luther is no dummy, so there has

1400
00:53:13,056 --> 00:53:15,192
to be a sense in which that's true.

1401
00:53:15,192 --> 00:53:16,626
I have no idea what he was talking about

1402
00:53:16,626 --> 00:53:17,627
because baptism is death and

1403
00:53:17,627 --> 00:53:18,228
resurrection.

1404
00:53:20,931 --> 00:53:22,899
I think you explained it by saying that

1405
00:53:22,899 --> 00:53:24,734
the person would be no longer safe.

1406
00:53:25,235 --> 00:53:29,039
Okay. In that sense, obviously, that's

1407
00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:29,739
true.

1408
00:53:30,974 --> 00:53:33,376
I appreciate in your presentation the

1409
00:53:33,376 --> 00:53:36,046
emphasis on the baptismal identity of the

1410
00:53:36,046 --> 00:53:36,813
deceased.

1411
00:53:38,248 --> 00:53:41,518
As far as memorial service, I had to do,

1412
00:53:41,518 --> 00:53:44,187
or still, there was no baptism.

1413
00:53:45,188 --> 00:53:47,657
I know how it was supposed to handle it,

1414
00:53:47,657 --> 00:53:50,026
but it's still incredibly difficult to

1415
00:53:50,026 --> 00:53:52,195
get baptismal baptism out there.

1416
00:53:52,362 --> 00:53:56,967
Do you have any suggestions for any other

1417
00:53:56,967 --> 00:53:58,768
blind centers?

1418
00:53:59,569 --> 00:54:01,204
I get that when I get to that.

1419
00:54:01,438 --> 00:54:03,173
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For an unbaptized,

1420
00:54:03,173 --> 00:54:05,141
stillborn, or a miscarriage or something

1421
00:54:05,141 --> 00:54:05,775
like that.

1422
00:54:07,744 --> 00:54:09,312
Well, okay, first of all, all that human

1423
00:54:09,312 --> 00:54:10,614
stuff that we talked about at the

1424
00:54:10,614 --> 00:54:12,082
beginning, you have to really respect

1425
00:54:12,082 --> 00:54:12,449
that.

1426
00:54:12,449 --> 00:54:15,285
I think, in terms of pastoral care, most

1427
00:54:15,285 --> 00:54:17,988
of the time when they ask the terrible

1428
00:54:17,988 --> 00:54:20,190
questions, you'd simply say,

1429
00:54:20,290 --> 00:54:22,759
I don't know the answers. But if you're

1430
00:54:22,759 --> 00:54:25,028
proclaiming, that's another thing.

1431
00:54:25,629 --> 00:54:28,365
You know what, Luther has a letter. No,

1432
00:54:28,365 --> 00:54:30,734
it's an appendix to something that

1433
00:54:30,734 --> 00:54:33,003
Bügenhagen or somebody wrote,

1434
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:35,105
and it's for Christian mothers whose

1435
00:54:35,105 --> 00:54:36,573
children have miscarriages.

1436
00:54:36,573 --> 00:54:38,541
Does anybody know about this? It's in the

1437
00:54:38,541 --> 00:54:40,477
occasional writings or the letters at the

1438
00:54:40,477 --> 00:54:41,978
end of the American edition.

1439
00:54:42,345 --> 00:54:44,314
Erik Herrmann put me onto this. Luther's

1440
00:54:44,314 --> 00:54:46,249
response is, what, you don't think God

1441
00:54:46,249 --> 00:54:47,150
answers prayer?

1442
00:54:49,552 --> 00:54:52,589
He doesn't go with, well, baptism by

1443
00:54:52,589 --> 00:54:55,992
desire, or there's water or something.

1444
00:54:56,159 --> 00:54:57,694
He just simply says, don't you think God

1445
00:54:57,694 --> 00:54:58,995
hears the prayers that these godly

1446
00:54:58,995 --> 00:55:00,530
parents have been praying for this child

1447
00:55:00,530 --> 00:55:01,331
all these months?

1448
00:55:02,132 --> 00:55:03,967
You think God will abandon this child?

1449
00:55:03,967 --> 00:55:05,935
God will not abandon this child. He hears

1450
00:55:05,935 --> 00:55:07,771
the prayers of his faithful people.

1451
00:55:07,937 --> 00:55:09,806
That's what he actually says. If you

1452
00:55:09,806 --> 00:55:11,841
don't like that, I'm sorry, that's what

1453
00:55:11,841 --> 00:55:12,642
Luther says.

1454
00:55:13,643 --> 00:55:15,478
It's a message of romance and suffering

1455
00:55:15,478 --> 00:55:17,380
and miscarriage in this life. It's not up

1456
00:55:17,380 --> 00:55:18,048
to the 11th.

1457
00:55:18,481 --> 00:55:21,518
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's a thought I had.

1458
00:55:21,518 --> 00:55:24,587
I don't know how to develop it or even if

1459
00:55:24,587 --> 00:55:27,090
it's worthy of being developed.

1460
00:55:27,090 --> 00:55:29,726
But I did think this, that a child in the

1461
00:55:29,726 --> 00:55:32,295
mother's womb is exactly where God wants

1462
00:55:32,295 --> 00:55:33,063
it to be.

1463
00:55:34,564 --> 00:55:37,067
I'm not sure I can ever say that about

1464
00:55:37,067 --> 00:55:39,369
myself. You know what I'm saying?

1465
00:55:39,936 --> 00:55:42,138
According to the order of creation,

1466
00:55:42,138 --> 00:55:44,641
according to God's design, that child is

1467
00:55:44,641 --> 00:55:47,377
exactly where God wants that child to be.

1468
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:50,213
And if, in some mysterious way, for

1469
00:55:50,213 --> 00:55:53,249
whatever reason, we have no idea, it is

1470
00:55:53,249 --> 00:55:55,352
the will of Almighty God

1471
00:55:55,352 --> 00:55:57,887
that this child never leave that place

1472
00:55:57,887 --> 00:56:00,490
that He wanted it to be, I think that's

1473
00:56:00,490 --> 00:56:01,491
good enough.

1474
00:56:04,027 --> 00:56:05,829
I don't know if that's a good way to go

1475
00:56:05,829 --> 00:56:07,764
or not, but I was thinking about this not

1476
00:56:07,764 --> 00:56:08,498
too long ago.

1477
00:56:09,165 --> 00:56:11,134
But this is very common, and as we all

1478
00:56:11,134 --> 00:56:12,869
know, there's lots of ministry.

1479
00:56:13,870 --> 00:56:16,373
By the way, this is a pro-life matter. We

1480
00:56:16,373 --> 00:56:18,775
think that pro-life means being against

1481
00:56:18,775 --> 00:56:19,509
abortion.

1482
00:56:20,844 --> 00:56:22,746
There's a lot of other things about which

1483
00:56:22,746 --> 00:56:24,381
you can be pro-life, or as our good

1484
00:56:24,381 --> 00:56:25,448
friend likes to say,

1485
00:56:25,515 --> 00:56:27,751
pro-life is now a jaded phrase and I

1486
00:56:27,751 --> 00:56:29,552
think we should abandon it.

1487
00:56:29,953 --> 00:56:31,721
Because as soon as you say I'm pro-life,

1488
00:56:31,721 --> 00:56:33,523
people think you're a lunatic or they get

1489
00:56:33,523 --> 00:56:34,023
nervous.

1490
00:56:34,324 --> 00:56:36,493
Why don't you tell them that you affirm

1491
00:56:36,493 --> 00:56:37,994
life, that you love life?

1492
00:56:38,661 --> 00:56:41,464
So whether it's miscarriage, abortion,

1493
00:56:41,464 --> 00:56:44,434
sexuality, post-abortive adults, of whom

1494
00:56:44,434 --> 00:56:47,237
in our churches there are millions,

1495
00:56:49,506 --> 00:56:52,442
because 30 to 43 percent of all American

1496
00:56:52,442 --> 00:56:55,378
women, 45 and younger, have had at least

1497
00:56:55,378 --> 00:56:57,881
one abortion, 30 to 43 percent.

1498
00:56:58,615 --> 00:57:00,550
So this is a matter of pastoral care.

1499
00:57:01,217 --> 00:57:03,186
So if you're this angry pro-life person,

1500
00:57:03,186 --> 00:57:05,088
you're going to give the message to the

1501
00:57:05,088 --> 00:57:06,990
women in your congregation who have had

1502
00:57:06,990 --> 00:57:07,690
abortions,

1503
00:57:08,091 --> 00:57:09,826
and there are women in your congregations

1504
00:57:09,826 --> 00:57:11,494
who have had abortions, you're going to

1505
00:57:11,494 --> 00:57:13,196
give the message that they can't talk to

1506
00:57:13,196 --> 00:57:13,530
you.

1507
00:57:14,564 --> 00:57:16,332
That's a big mistake. We've all done it.

1508
00:57:16,332 --> 00:57:18,034
I know it's a mistake because I've done

1509
00:57:18,034 --> 00:57:18,301
it.

1510
00:57:18,301 --> 00:57:20,437
Let him who is without pastoral care

1511
00:57:20,437 --> 00:57:22,172
flaws cast the first stone.

1512
00:57:23,306 --> 00:57:24,741
Yeah, Richard, and then we've got to

1513
00:57:24,741 --> 00:57:25,008
stop.

1514
00:57:27,410 --> 00:57:30,413
It might be well on Life Sunday in

1515
00:57:30,413 --> 00:57:33,917
January, or the third Sunday in January,

1516
00:57:33,917 --> 00:57:37,420
I would preach a sermon on that directed

1517
00:57:37,420 --> 00:57:40,056
for the woman who is cast.

1518
00:57:40,290 --> 00:57:42,659
Yes, yes. You know, I did this last

1519
00:57:42,659 --> 00:57:44,294
January at Holy Cross.

1520
00:57:44,294 --> 00:57:47,664
I got tired of his resources that came

1521
00:57:47,664 --> 00:57:50,667
along, and I'd preach sermon after

1522
00:57:50,667 --> 00:57:53,670
sermon, being against abortion.

1523
00:57:54,904 --> 00:57:58,007
I discovered that pastors

1524
00:57:58,007 --> 00:58:00,000
we need to meet the needs of a woman saddened.

1525
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,000
Yeah, we're pro-life including their life. Right.