1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,571 They were battling against some of the wrong ideas that were going on in the church. 2 00:00:04,704 --> 00:00:10,844 And this is a common format or a common theme throughout the history of the church. 3 00:00:12,278 --> 00:00:17,550 Somebody comes along who tries to explain something that maybe needs explaining or really 4 00:00:17,550 --> 00:00:18,718 doesn't really try to anyway. 5 00:00:19,486 --> 00:00:23,490 And then the church has to sort it out and deal with whether that's true or not. 6 00:00:23,857 --> 00:00:25,325 And that's really what's going on with Arius. 7 00:00:25,325 --> 00:00:31,064 And so you have this kind of a thing happening often where you have a heretic who will come 8 00:00:31,064 --> 00:00:35,835 along and then the church has to deal with that heretic and come to terms with it. 9 00:00:36,069 --> 00:00:37,470 Now heretic by the way means what? 10 00:00:40,774 --> 00:00:43,276 Someone within the church who brings up the wrong teaching. 11 00:00:44,344 --> 00:00:44,644 All right. 12 00:00:45,045 --> 00:00:48,948 This literally comes from the word hieron which means choice. 13 00:00:50,750 --> 00:00:51,184 A choice. 14 00:00:51,184 --> 00:00:55,755 So heresy is like a choice for another teaching, a different kind of teaching. 15 00:00:56,256 --> 00:00:59,125 That's what heresy means, a different teaching, a wrong teaching. 16 00:00:59,626 --> 00:01:04,731 Now technically in the church heresy has come to mean a wrong teaching, a misleading teaching 17 00:01:04,731 --> 00:01:06,566 that is leading people away from the truth. 18 00:01:07,367 --> 00:01:12,305 We typically will distinguish between heresy and then what's the right teaching usually 19 00:01:12,305 --> 00:01:12,772 called? 20 00:01:15,241 --> 00:01:15,809 Lutheranism. 21 00:01:19,279 --> 00:01:20,647 We always talk about that. 22 00:01:20,647 --> 00:01:21,648 We call that orthodoxy. 23 00:01:24,250 --> 00:01:27,020 So when you hear orthodoxy it's a good thing. 24 00:01:28,455 --> 00:01:33,793 Orthodoxy literally means, oh I take it apart, it's just so much fun doing your etymologies, 25 00:01:34,094 --> 00:01:34,194 right? 26 00:01:34,461 --> 00:01:34,627 Okay. 27 00:01:35,295 --> 00:01:35,895 Orthodoxy. 28 00:01:36,296 --> 00:01:37,130 Ortho means what? 29 00:01:37,864 --> 00:01:39,365 What's an orthodontist do? 30 00:01:41,101 --> 00:01:42,669 He straightens teeth. 31 00:01:43,703 --> 00:01:45,705 So dent is the word for teeth. 32 00:01:46,072 --> 00:01:47,307 And ortho means straight. 33 00:01:48,074 --> 00:01:48,374 All right. 34 00:01:48,374 --> 00:01:50,510 So ortho literally means straight. 35 00:01:51,377 --> 00:01:54,147 And doxy is the Greek word for praise. 36 00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:57,951 So orthodoxy is straight praise or right teaching. 37 00:01:58,384 --> 00:02:01,454 So orthodoxy means straight, correct, right teaching. 38 00:02:03,256 --> 00:02:08,294 So when somebody says, hey, that's orthodox, that's a good thing. 39 00:02:08,995 --> 00:02:09,195 Okay. 40 00:02:09,329 --> 00:02:10,029 That's a compliment. 41 00:02:10,296 --> 00:02:12,665 Orthodox means right teaching, on the money it's good. 42 00:02:13,166 --> 00:02:17,170 So good orthodox, Lutheranism means right on the money, straight teaching, correct. 43 00:02:18,037 --> 00:02:20,373 Heresy is the opposite of orthodoxy. 44 00:02:20,673 --> 00:02:23,843 If orthodoxy is right teaching, heresy is error, wrong teaching. 45 00:02:24,277 --> 00:02:25,445 There's a third category. 46 00:02:26,513 --> 00:02:27,747 Anybody know what that one is? 47 00:02:28,715 --> 00:02:35,755 Another third category is heterodoxy. 48 00:02:36,256 --> 00:02:36,489 All right. 49 00:02:37,090 --> 00:02:38,725 And heterodoxy would mean what? 50 00:02:39,692 --> 00:02:40,927 What's heteros mean? 51 00:02:41,895 --> 00:02:42,362 Opposite. 52 00:02:42,862 --> 00:02:44,230 No, you're on the right track. 53 00:02:44,230 --> 00:02:47,167 You're thinking heterosexual and you figure it must be opposite. 54 00:02:47,767 --> 00:02:49,869 Hetero means other is what it literally means. 55 00:02:50,303 --> 00:02:52,672 So heterodoxy means other teaching. 56 00:02:53,773 --> 00:02:58,745 So we will make the distinction between these three kind of options you've got. 57 00:02:58,978 --> 00:03:03,016 You've got heresy, you've got orthodoxy, and you've got heterodoxy. 58 00:03:03,516 --> 00:03:05,852 Heresy is flat out not false teaching. 59 00:03:06,252 --> 00:03:07,387 Orthodoxy is the right teaching. 60 00:03:08,321 --> 00:03:14,194 Heterodoxy is another teaching which probably doesn't quite rise to the level of being heresy 61 00:03:14,894 --> 00:03:16,229 but it's not on track either. 62 00:03:17,063 --> 00:03:17,363 All right. 63 00:03:18,164 --> 00:03:22,335 Heterodoxy is sort of a nice category for bad teaching. 64 00:03:22,435 --> 00:03:25,205 You don't want to label them heretic but they're not quite on track. 65 00:03:25,939 --> 00:03:26,773 That's what it amounts to. 66 00:03:26,940 --> 00:03:30,009 So like an example of a heterodox teaching. 67 00:03:30,577 --> 00:03:37,383 We would probably say that Baptists have a heterodox teaching on the doctrine of baptism 68 00:03:37,383 --> 00:03:40,253 just to be kind of nice, okay, heterodox teaching. 69 00:03:40,787 --> 00:03:46,492 Or probably even more appropriately, that would be, see, it doesn't quite rise to heresy 70 00:03:47,193 --> 00:03:50,730 because it's not really threatening the faith like a heresy will. 71 00:03:50,997 --> 00:03:52,098 Heresy is going to threaten the faith. 72 00:03:52,198 --> 00:03:54,534 It's going to undermine faith in Christ alone. 73 00:03:55,201 --> 00:03:56,669 That rises to the level of heresy. 74 00:03:57,203 --> 00:04:04,043 But another great example would be Calvinists or the Reformed teaching of the Lord's Supper 75 00:04:04,644 --> 00:04:08,214 that it's not really the body and blood of Christ but it's a symbol of Christ's body 76 00:04:08,214 --> 00:04:08,615 and blood. 77 00:04:08,615 --> 00:04:10,583 Well, that's not the right teaching. 78 00:04:10,883 --> 00:04:12,485 Is this going to condemn somebody to hell? 79 00:04:12,785 --> 00:04:14,887 No, it's a heterodox teaching. 80 00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:16,656 Okay, so that would be heterodoxy. 81 00:04:16,856 --> 00:04:17,991 So we do make these distinctions. 82 00:04:18,224 --> 00:04:19,926 There's heterodoxy, orthodoxy, and heresy. 83 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:27,133 Now most heretics don't wake up in the morning and say, today is the day I think it's time 84 00:04:27,133 --> 00:04:28,034 for a new heresy. 85 00:04:29,369 --> 00:04:30,603 They don't do that. 86 00:04:31,471 --> 00:04:34,307 Heretics don't make it the goal to be heretics. 87 00:04:35,108 --> 00:04:38,845 Usually, I suppose it's possible somebody could have that goal and be so nasty they 88 00:04:38,845 --> 00:04:39,979 just want to teach heresy. 89 00:04:40,413 --> 00:04:45,551 But usually what's going on is heretics end up that way because the church all decides, 90 00:04:45,785 --> 00:04:47,086 no, he's wrong. 91 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,423 But heretics don't wake up wanting to be heretics. 92 00:04:50,723 --> 00:04:55,028 What they usually are trying to do is trying to sort out a problem or answer something 93 00:04:55,028 --> 00:04:56,496 in a good way. 94 00:04:56,629 --> 00:04:57,530 That's what they're trying to do. 95 00:04:58,131 --> 00:05:04,537 So let's go back and consider arch-heretic Arius, one of the first of the great heretics. 96 00:05:04,671 --> 00:05:07,106 And there have been many, many great heretics. 97 00:05:07,807 --> 00:05:09,409 And so Arius comes along. 98 00:05:09,676 --> 00:05:11,744 What is Arius trying to do? 99 00:05:11,911 --> 00:05:16,082 This is worth doing just because it's instructive to see how this kind of plays out. 100 00:05:16,516 --> 00:05:17,984 What is Arius trying to do? 101 00:05:19,052 --> 00:05:20,820 He is trying to solve a problem. 102 00:05:21,187 --> 00:05:22,455 He's trying to answer a question. 103 00:05:22,455 --> 00:05:32,799 And the problem that Arius is trying to address is the question about how God can become human. 104 00:05:37,303 --> 00:05:37,904 All right. 105 00:05:38,738 --> 00:05:40,073 That's what he's trying to address. 106 00:05:40,573 --> 00:05:42,809 Why is this a problem? 107 00:05:50,750 --> 00:05:51,184 Okay. 108 00:05:51,818 --> 00:05:52,251 All right. 109 00:05:52,685 --> 00:05:52,785 Now. 110 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,255 You're answering my question. 111 00:05:56,489 --> 00:05:57,090 Am I out of camera? 112 00:05:57,824 --> 00:05:59,792 I'm already messing up. 113 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,695 There's a voice coming from somewhere. 114 00:06:04,430 --> 00:06:10,036 Why is the, okay, you're answering my question why is Arius, what is Arius doing is wrong. 115 00:06:10,069 --> 00:06:10,436 It's true. 116 00:06:10,603 --> 00:06:12,271 You guys have really nice chairs in the city, don't you? 117 00:06:13,106 --> 00:06:13,973 What a deal. 118 00:06:15,274 --> 00:06:15,608 I bet. 119 00:06:15,875 --> 00:06:16,442 Where were you last week? 120 00:06:16,542 --> 00:06:17,009 Over in Winnegan? 121 00:06:18,444 --> 00:06:19,412 Or in Werner? 122 00:06:20,947 --> 00:06:22,382 Man, I'll never be this good again. 123 00:06:22,682 --> 00:06:23,449 Enjoy it. 124 00:06:25,752 --> 00:06:26,386 All right. 125 00:06:26,819 --> 00:06:28,821 So, Arius is addressing a problem. 126 00:06:28,955 --> 00:06:29,322 And you're right. 127 00:06:29,489 --> 00:06:30,757 His issue of lack of faith. 128 00:06:31,057 --> 00:06:34,660 The question of how God can become a human. 129 00:06:35,294 --> 00:06:36,929 Beth, is this a legitimate question? 130 00:06:37,096 --> 00:06:37,897 Is this a problem? 131 00:06:38,164 --> 00:06:39,132 Why is this a problem? 132 00:06:41,734 --> 00:06:44,904 Think about what, yeah, see we confess this stuff all the time. 133 00:06:45,004 --> 00:06:45,972 You just believe in it. 134 00:06:46,172 --> 00:06:48,474 You don't realize what a big mess this is. 135 00:06:49,308 --> 00:06:50,309 You can't answer it. 136 00:06:50,877 --> 00:06:51,144 Yeah. 137 00:06:53,413 --> 00:06:54,147 In a minute. 138 00:06:54,647 --> 00:06:57,550 Now, what do we believe as Christians? 139 00:06:58,017 --> 00:06:59,352 God became a human being. 140 00:06:59,986 --> 00:07:00,386 Christmas. 141 00:07:01,454 --> 00:07:03,256 We confess, we talk about it all the time. 142 00:07:03,923 --> 00:07:06,159 And now suddenly someone says, now wait a minute. 143 00:07:07,593 --> 00:07:09,328 God became a human being. 144 00:07:09,429 --> 00:07:10,630 Are you sure about that? 145 00:07:10,863 --> 00:07:11,998 Oh, yeah, yeah, that's what we believe. 146 00:07:12,165 --> 00:07:12,532 No problem. 147 00:07:13,099 --> 00:07:15,168 And Arius says, no, that's a problem. 148 00:07:15,868 --> 00:07:20,606 In fact, the world in which Arius lived said, that's a big problem. 149 00:07:21,407 --> 00:07:23,910 It's a big, big problem. 150 00:07:24,310 --> 00:07:28,815 Because God is, well, he's God. 151 00:07:29,849 --> 00:07:32,285 And he is all of our attributes. 152 00:07:32,585 --> 00:07:34,153 He is immutable. 153 00:07:34,887 --> 00:07:38,791 He is unchanging, immutable. 154 00:07:39,192 --> 00:07:40,426 He is eternal. 155 00:07:41,527 --> 00:07:43,296 He is perfect. 156 00:07:44,597 --> 00:07:47,333 And he has a satiety. 157 00:07:47,467 --> 00:07:48,634 He doesn't feel. 158 00:07:50,503 --> 00:07:53,306 So, we agree, is that God? 159 00:07:54,006 --> 00:07:56,375 No, okay, yeah, that's our list of attributes. 160 00:07:57,009 --> 00:07:57,743 Well, you got a problem. 161 00:08:01,214 --> 00:08:02,348 What's the problem? 162 00:08:04,584 --> 00:08:05,051 Right. 163 00:08:05,651 --> 00:08:06,686 Humans aren't eternal. 164 00:08:07,286 --> 00:08:08,955 Humans are not perfect. 165 00:08:09,088 --> 00:08:10,923 Well, we'll pick on that one a little bit more. 166 00:08:11,224 --> 00:08:12,825 But maybe they could be. 167 00:08:12,825 --> 00:08:14,093 Adam was for a time. 168 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:15,194 So, it's possible. 169 00:08:15,528 --> 00:08:16,629 But eternal, that's an issue. 170 00:08:17,263 --> 00:08:19,532 This non-feeling, that's a big issue. 171 00:08:19,999 --> 00:08:21,467 Humans are nothing if they're not feeling. 172 00:08:22,201 --> 00:08:23,970 I mean, we are full of feelings. 173 00:08:24,704 --> 00:08:25,004 What is it? 174 00:08:25,004 --> 00:08:25,905 The biggest problem of all? 175 00:08:26,906 --> 00:08:30,376 Is this like the question where you say God can do anything, 176 00:08:30,376 --> 00:08:34,213 so if he can do anything, he can make a rock that's so big that he can't lift it, but if he can't lift it, he can't lift it? 177 00:08:34,447 --> 00:08:35,815 Yeah, but not quite. 178 00:08:36,849 --> 00:08:40,620 It's not really on that line, but it might border on that. 179 00:08:40,887 --> 00:08:42,722 This is a more serious issue. 180 00:08:43,089 --> 00:08:46,859 This is an issue of saying that we know what God is like. 181 00:08:47,927 --> 00:08:49,195 And he's immutable. 182 00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:53,366 And now you're trying to tell me that God became human. 183 00:08:53,633 --> 00:08:55,034 Well, right away we've got a problem. 184 00:08:55,635 --> 00:08:58,704 Because in the very sentence, become, what does that imply? 185 00:08:58,704 --> 00:08:59,505 Change. 186 00:08:59,972 --> 00:09:00,406 Exactly. 187 00:09:00,773 --> 00:09:01,073 Change. 188 00:09:01,474 --> 00:09:07,413 And if there's a change, it's either a change from the lesser to the better, or from the better to the worse, no longer perfect. 189 00:09:07,747 --> 00:09:09,782 One way or the other, perfection is lost as well. 190 00:09:11,350 --> 00:09:15,588 And so, immutability implies a change in God, and a change in God implies a lack of perfection. 191 00:09:16,122 --> 00:09:21,427 Which is why Aristotle, when he was thinking about God, came to the conclusion, God is the unmoved mover. 192 00:09:21,727 --> 00:09:23,829 Who sits around all day thinking about what? 193 00:09:24,664 --> 00:09:25,097 God. 194 00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:27,600 Because there's nothing else more perfect to think of than himself. 195 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:32,438 And if he thinks about anything else, then he'd be thinking about things that change, and have a change, and can't have that. 196 00:09:33,139 --> 00:09:34,907 So, God is immutable. 197 00:09:35,541 --> 00:09:37,944 This is the world in which Arius lives. 198 00:09:38,711 --> 00:09:40,846 325, early 300s, the Greek world. 199 00:09:41,213 --> 00:09:42,315 The world of the philosophers. 200 00:09:42,949 --> 00:09:44,884 And they said, this is what God is. 201 00:09:45,084 --> 00:09:47,553 Immutable, eternal, perfect, no feelings. 202 00:09:48,554 --> 00:09:53,459 The Greeks and the Romans were not running around believing in Zeus and Athena and stuff. 203 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:54,594 Some of them, perhaps. 204 00:09:54,594 --> 00:10:00,967 But most of them were, understood God as this, you know, force that's there, and this power, and personhood. 205 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:03,703 But to say that he became human, no way. 206 00:10:05,438 --> 00:10:06,372 No way. 207 00:10:07,406 --> 00:10:10,576 So, this becomes a real stumbling block for the Christians. 208 00:10:10,910 --> 00:10:13,379 Because the Christians are running around saying, hey, God became a human being. 209 00:10:13,946 --> 00:10:15,781 And the philosophers are saying, no. 210 00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:18,284 Can't be. 211 00:10:19,051 --> 00:10:25,191 So then Arius is going to try to say, alright, so what do we mean when we say that God became human? 212 00:10:25,524 --> 00:10:26,926 How are we to understand this? 213 00:10:27,326 --> 00:10:27,927 What do we mean? 214 00:10:28,227 --> 00:10:28,861 What do we confess? 215 00:10:29,395 --> 00:10:36,636 So, Arius was trying to put an explanation to this problem, and he was trying to be orthodox. 216 00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:38,537 He wanted to be that. 217 00:10:38,938 --> 00:10:40,806 So he said, well, let's sort this thing out. 218 00:10:41,173 --> 00:10:43,876 There's clearly a subordinationism in scripture. 219 00:10:44,410 --> 00:10:45,745 Something clearly is less than the Father. 220 00:10:45,745 --> 00:10:53,452 In fact, I would go so far as to say that there is a difference between the fatherhood of God and the Son of God. 221 00:10:53,919 --> 00:10:56,122 There's not the same Godness. 222 00:10:57,156 --> 00:10:58,324 And he summarized it this way. 223 00:10:58,524 --> 00:11:03,796 Arius said there was a time when he was not referring to Christ. 224 00:11:05,231 --> 00:11:10,369 And he said that in the Bible it says that Jesus was begotten. 225 00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:12,371 Well, that means he came into being. 226 00:11:12,371 --> 00:11:19,311 So you had the Father, and then the Father brought the Son into existence a long time ago, way before the creation. 227 00:11:19,712 --> 00:11:21,347 But he's not original. 228 00:11:21,914 --> 00:11:22,815 He's not eternal. 229 00:11:23,349 --> 00:11:25,084 Not God the same way the Father is. 230 00:11:25,284 --> 00:11:26,652 So what Arius came up with? 231 00:11:26,852 --> 00:11:28,220 It's a small thing. 232 00:11:28,988 --> 00:11:30,256 He's still really powerful. 233 00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:30,956 He's still great. 234 00:11:31,023 --> 00:11:31,524 He's still God. 235 00:11:31,857 --> 00:11:33,159 But not quite the same as the Father. 236 00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:42,368 And Athanasius recognized, as we pointed out, that's a big problem because he's not any longer of the same substance or homoousia. 237 00:11:42,935 --> 00:11:45,771 And so Athanasius said, no way. 238 00:11:46,439 --> 00:11:47,206 You can't have this. 239 00:11:48,207 --> 00:11:49,175 And he rejected it. 240 00:11:49,341 --> 00:11:55,247 But see, Arius is simply trying to accommodate the teaching of the church into the culture of his time. 241 00:11:55,581 --> 00:11:56,916 He didn't want to be a heretic. 242 00:11:57,216 --> 00:11:58,718 He didn't think he was a heretic. 243 00:11:58,851 --> 00:12:00,386 He didn't recognize himself being a heretic. 244 00:12:00,486 --> 00:12:06,058 And most of the church in Arius' day agreed with Arius. 245 00:12:07,593 --> 00:12:10,262 The majority said Arius has got it right. 246 00:12:11,630 --> 00:12:13,299 The minority went with Athanasius. 247 00:12:13,666 --> 00:12:17,369 And the fact that Nicaea went the way it did, most people consider it a miracle. 248 00:12:18,537 --> 00:12:21,107 Because the emperor did not want it to go that way. 249 00:12:21,474 --> 00:12:30,449 And after the council, it was Athanasius who found himself as an exile on the run, on the lam, for most of his life, living in persecution. 250 00:12:30,616 --> 00:12:32,351 Because the Arians were carrying the day. 251 00:12:32,384 --> 00:12:39,992 And it wasn't until 381 when finally they really kind of put the nail in the coffin of Arius and the Nicene Creed took the day and that was the end of it. 252 00:12:39,992 --> 00:12:41,460 But it hung on for a long time. 253 00:12:42,027 --> 00:12:43,696 This is the way heresy often works. 254 00:12:44,096 --> 00:12:46,065 A heretic doesn't want to be a heretic. 255 00:12:46,098 --> 00:12:50,236 He's just trying to explain something but easily can end up in error. 256 00:12:50,770 --> 00:12:52,071 So the last thing we learned is this. 257 00:12:52,805 --> 00:12:57,309 You need to always check what you're doing to make sure you're being faithful to the scriptural witness. 258 00:12:58,811 --> 00:13:01,747 And that you're being in line with what the church is teaching. 259 00:13:02,581 --> 00:13:04,250 Because the church is important. 260 00:13:05,017 --> 00:13:08,053 And this is also kind of a surprise for most of us who grew up Lutheran. 261 00:13:08,053 --> 00:13:11,924 Because we grew up believing, the Bible is all you need. Who cares about tradition? 262 00:13:12,691 --> 00:13:14,193 Which is frankly not true. 263 00:13:16,061 --> 00:13:16,662 Not true. 264 00:13:16,962 --> 00:13:18,597 We care a lot about tradition. 265 00:13:18,864 --> 00:13:20,399 We care a lot about what the church has taught. 266 00:13:20,699 --> 00:13:22,134 We pay attention to what the church has taught. 267 00:13:22,468 --> 00:13:24,036 What they said at Nicaea matters. 268 00:13:24,370 --> 00:13:27,339 What they said at Constantinople in 381 matters. 269 00:13:27,473 --> 00:13:30,676 What the reformers said in 1530 in Augsburg matters. 270 00:13:31,177 --> 00:13:33,245 We care. We pay attention to this stuff. 271 00:13:33,345 --> 00:13:37,149 We're not just out doing our own thing, reading the Bible and getting our own conclusions. 272 00:13:37,149 --> 00:13:39,251 We have to be tuned in to what the church has taught. 273 00:13:39,585 --> 00:13:41,654 And that gets back to our presuppositions discussion. 274 00:13:42,154 --> 00:13:45,825 Because we need to make sure our presuppositions are in line with what has been taught. 275 00:13:46,192 --> 00:13:48,327 And what is the faithful Orthodox teaching. 276 00:13:48,694 --> 00:13:51,397 And that we're not just out freelancing, doing our own thing. 277 00:13:52,064 --> 00:13:56,101 Because whether you think it or not, or whether you've ever given it any thought or not, 278 00:13:56,268 --> 00:14:01,273 we really don't want everybody sitting down reading his own Bible and coming up with his own answers. 279 00:14:01,774 --> 00:14:02,474 And his own conclusions. 280 00:14:02,942 --> 00:14:05,044 That leads to all kinds of problems. 281 00:14:05,044 --> 00:14:06,445 We don't want it. 282 00:14:06,946 --> 00:14:10,282 We want people to be reading scripture in the light of what the church is teaching, 283 00:14:10,749 --> 00:14:12,351 and in the light of what the church has always taught. 284 00:14:12,985 --> 00:14:13,485 It matters. 285 00:14:14,220 --> 00:14:15,788 Now does that mean tradition trumps scripture? 286 00:14:16,055 --> 00:14:16,422 No. 287 00:14:16,856 --> 00:14:20,926 But it means that tradition certainly shapes our reading of scripture and our presuppositions. 288 00:14:21,994 --> 00:14:22,094 Okay? 289 00:14:23,696 --> 00:14:31,904 Now, any questions or anything further then on Nicaea and Athanasius and the Creed and the Council? 290 00:14:31,904 --> 00:14:34,106 This is really a fascinating time in history. 291 00:14:34,173 --> 00:14:35,608 And if you get into it, it gets really intriguing. 292 00:14:35,641 --> 00:14:39,612 Because the guy who called this council was Constantine. 293 00:14:40,179 --> 00:14:41,614 He was the one who put the bucks up for it. 294 00:14:42,147 --> 00:14:42,481 Paid for it. 295 00:14:42,581 --> 00:14:43,148 The emperor did. 296 00:14:43,749 --> 00:14:46,752 Because he had a problem on his hands. 297 00:14:46,986 --> 00:14:48,654 Because the Christian church was starting to divide. 298 00:14:49,088 --> 00:14:50,256 You've got the Arians over here. 299 00:14:50,489 --> 00:14:52,191 And you've got a group of the Orthodox over here. 300 00:14:52,291 --> 00:14:53,792 And there was a lot of conflict going on. 301 00:14:53,893 --> 00:14:55,094 And so, he needed to settle it. 302 00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:56,929 So, they settled it in Nicaea. 303 00:14:57,563 --> 00:14:57,763 Yeah? 304 00:14:57,763 --> 00:15:03,035 Do you hear a lot about Gnosticism and Gnostic heresy? 305 00:15:03,469 --> 00:15:03,636 Uh-huh. 306 00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:04,837 You do. 307 00:15:06,038 --> 00:15:06,572 We'll get there. 308 00:15:06,805 --> 00:15:07,206 All right. 309 00:15:07,907 --> 00:15:09,608 It's on the docket for this afternoon. 310 00:15:10,676 --> 00:15:11,844 One of my favorite topics. 311 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:13,512 Yeah? 312 00:15:14,346 --> 00:15:21,020 So, the council at Nicaea, the decision there at the council at Nicaea was that Arius was right? 313 00:15:21,253 --> 00:15:21,687 No. 314 00:15:22,054 --> 00:15:22,655 He was wrong. 315 00:15:23,022 --> 00:15:25,157 Nicaea decided with Orthodoxy. 316 00:15:25,691 --> 00:15:25,991 Okay. 317 00:15:26,125 --> 00:15:29,094 So, then what was the reason for having to do Constantinople? 318 00:15:29,395 --> 00:15:30,162 Well, yeah. 319 00:15:30,195 --> 00:15:30,896 There were a lot of reasons. 320 00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:34,166 These councils met usually with a full slate of things they needed to deal with. 321 00:15:34,366 --> 00:15:36,135 Some of the things were real theological issues. 322 00:15:36,335 --> 00:15:41,307 Some of them were just basic things like who gets ordained, who doesn't, who does the ordaining, who has the authority. 323 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,475 They were just kind of, you know, casuistry things. 324 00:15:43,475 --> 00:15:45,010 What was going on at the church at the time. 325 00:15:45,344 --> 00:15:48,213 You know, do we let deacons do this or that? 326 00:15:48,547 --> 00:15:49,281 And, you know, the role of women. 327 00:15:49,315 --> 00:15:49,882 That kind of stuff. 328 00:15:50,049 --> 00:15:52,051 They dealt with all kinds of just things like that as well. 329 00:15:52,184 --> 00:15:52,885 And they had to be. 330 00:15:52,985 --> 00:15:54,353 Those things came up often enough. 331 00:15:54,353 --> 00:16:01,961 But, the problem was Nicaea had decided, okay, it's the homoousios, is what we're going to confess. 332 00:16:02,628 --> 00:16:06,899 And, you get this in Confessions I, probably this year. 333 00:16:07,533 --> 00:16:08,300 I look forward to this one. 334 00:16:08,534 --> 00:16:09,902 We'll talk about this in a lot more detail. 335 00:16:10,369 --> 00:16:18,577 It came down to the single Greek letter because to say that God, Jesus is like the Father is homoousios in Greek. 336 00:16:18,911 --> 00:16:22,081 And to say that Jesus is the same as the Father is homoousios. 337 00:16:22,081 --> 00:16:24,383 You know, it's one little Greek letter, iota, subscript. 338 00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:28,754 And so, that letter made all the difference whether Jesus is like the Father or really the Father. 339 00:16:29,488 --> 00:16:34,093 Now, the problem was that the, oh, here's another Latin phrase for you. 340 00:16:41,533 --> 00:16:46,739 This is another very important lesson that comes out of the whole mess in Nicaea. 341 00:16:47,406 --> 00:16:48,807 It's lex orandi, lex credendi. 342 00:16:49,675 --> 00:16:50,509 Lex means law. 343 00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:53,245 Orandi is praying and credendi is believing. 344 00:16:53,812 --> 00:16:55,781 The law of praying is the law of believing. 345 00:16:56,515 --> 00:16:57,783 Lex orandi, lex credendi. 346 00:16:58,884 --> 00:17:02,488 Arius was a sharp guy and was well liked. 347 00:17:02,855 --> 00:17:05,958 They say he was tall and rather handsome and rather popular with the ladies. 348 00:17:06,592 --> 00:17:08,527 Athanasius was rather short and insignificant. 349 00:17:09,194 --> 00:17:11,163 So, there was a lot of PR stuff going on here. 350 00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:12,898 Arius was more popular. 351 00:17:12,898 --> 00:17:22,241 And Arius had on his side the fact that everybody prayed in subordinationistic ways. 352 00:17:22,541 --> 00:17:25,911 He prayed to the Father, through the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit. 353 00:17:26,145 --> 00:17:27,112 A clear subordination. 354 00:17:27,546 --> 00:17:28,313 That's why people prayed. 355 00:17:28,947 --> 00:17:33,352 And so, because people were praying that way, the belief system was kind of going that way as well. 356 00:17:33,852 --> 00:17:40,492 And it seemed like Athanasius was the innovator because no one had said homoousios before. 357 00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:42,327 No one had said of the same substance before. 358 00:17:42,327 --> 00:17:43,729 That was a new thing to say that. 359 00:17:44,096 --> 00:17:47,433 So, Arius could claim to be the conservative holding the old way. 360 00:17:48,167 --> 00:17:52,771 And he was holding up the subordinationism that was being taught and being prayed. 361 00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:54,673 And so, a lot of people said, this feels right. 362 00:17:55,340 --> 00:17:56,075 They had hymns. 363 00:17:56,308 --> 00:17:58,377 Arius had, there were tons of Arian hymns. 364 00:17:58,644 --> 00:17:59,311 Bunch of them. 365 00:17:59,545 --> 00:18:04,016 The people were praying and worshiping and singing Arian stuff. 366 00:18:04,416 --> 00:18:05,717 And that was part of the strength of it. 367 00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:10,222 And so, it took a while to overcome all that and to turn it around. 368 00:18:10,222 --> 00:18:14,460 And so, the church started doing was intentionally changing a lot of its prayers and its hymns 369 00:18:14,460 --> 00:18:15,661 to become orthodox. 370 00:18:16,595 --> 00:18:19,364 And intentionally realizing, no, Athanasius is right. 371 00:18:19,565 --> 00:18:22,668 And the teaching of Nicaea is right. 372 00:18:22,868 --> 00:18:23,969 So, they had to work at it. 373 00:18:24,036 --> 00:18:24,770 But it took a while. 374 00:18:25,504 --> 00:18:26,472 You know, you can imagine. 375 00:18:27,072 --> 00:18:28,040 It's still true today. 376 00:18:28,507 --> 00:18:31,343 The one thing you don't mess with is people's worship style. 377 00:18:31,844 --> 00:18:32,778 That's what you don't mess with. 378 00:18:33,112 --> 00:18:36,415 You can get, you know, change all kinds of stuff. 379 00:18:36,515 --> 00:18:37,850 But man, you better not change my hymnal. 380 00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:40,119 You know, that's fighting stuff. 381 00:18:40,319 --> 00:18:41,487 People get all worked up then. 382 00:18:42,154 --> 00:18:43,489 And it was the same then. 383 00:18:43,655 --> 00:18:44,356 It's always been the same. 384 00:18:44,623 --> 00:18:46,058 You know, you can mess around with doctrine all you want. 385 00:18:46,191 --> 00:18:47,192 But don't mess with all my worship. 386 00:18:47,826 --> 00:18:48,594 What's going on here? 387 00:18:49,261 --> 00:18:50,429 So, hey, I worship this way. 388 00:18:50,696 --> 00:18:51,363 I'm staying with it. 389 00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:53,665 And so, Arius hung on for quite a while. 390 00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:57,236 So, I have to say, again, the lessons here are pretty important. 391 00:18:57,636 --> 00:18:59,671 The idea of Lux Orondi, Lux Credendi is really significant. 392 00:19:00,305 --> 00:19:06,178 This, by the way, has big implications even for some of the worship style questions that people get all worked up about. 393 00:19:06,645 --> 00:19:11,350 Because, you know, people say, ah, it's just words and the words are right and who cares, it's just style. 394 00:19:11,817 --> 00:19:12,985 No, it's not that simple. 395 00:19:13,352 --> 00:19:17,556 Because how you do things shapes what you believe and how you believe. 396 00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:19,925 And there's more to that than people realize. 397 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,595 And time will tell and we'll bear more fruit on this. 398 00:19:23,595 --> 00:19:25,464 But you don't violate basic laws. 399 00:19:25,497 --> 00:19:27,633 And Lux Orondi, Lux Credendi is just a fundamental law. 400 00:19:27,699 --> 00:19:28,333 It's the way it is. 401 00:19:28,667 --> 00:19:34,706 And if you worship like an evangelical, you'll end up probably believing like an evangelical. 402 00:19:34,706 --> 00:19:37,009 But time will tell. 403 00:19:37,876 --> 00:19:38,010 Okay? 404 00:19:40,112 --> 00:19:43,782 I was just going to ask historically what happened to Arius and those people who believe. 405 00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:47,553 Did they end up seeing the way of Athanasius or? 406 00:19:47,719 --> 00:19:49,855 No, Arius died in Arius died in Arius. 407 00:19:50,489 --> 00:19:51,790 And a lot of people did too. 408 00:19:52,291 --> 00:19:55,727 Sometimes the only way the church really gets reformed is waiting for a few well placed funerals. 409 00:19:59,264 --> 00:20:03,902 My first colleague in the ministry said, there's nothing wrong with this church that a few well placed funerals couldn't solve. 410 00:20:06,605 --> 00:20:07,773 He was right. 411 00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:12,144 Alright. 412 00:20:14,446 --> 00:20:14,880 Okay. 413 00:20:15,047 --> 00:20:15,647 Other questions? 414 00:20:19,718 --> 00:20:21,186 So, this is instructive. 415 00:20:21,253 --> 00:20:27,226 You'll spend more time on this and more time with the whole Nicaea thing and the Nicene Creed when you do Confessions I. 416 00:20:28,026 --> 00:20:29,228 So you'll get a chance to revisit this. 417 00:20:29,394 --> 00:20:32,898 But it's just helpful now to kind of see how this thing holds together. 418 00:20:32,898 --> 00:20:36,468 And the basic heresies that we're going are the anti-Trinitarian heresies. 419 00:20:36,702 --> 00:20:37,603 Arianism is one of them. 420 00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:38,737 It's a Trinitarian heresy. 421 00:20:39,338 --> 00:20:41,607 It seems like it's a Christological one, but really it's Trinitarian. 422 00:20:41,773 --> 00:20:43,642 It's the question of what is God's nature? 423 00:20:44,076 --> 00:20:46,044 Is God three persons in one substance? 424 00:20:46,144 --> 00:20:47,579 And that was what Arius was denying. 425 00:20:47,846 --> 00:20:49,014 But it's a Trinitarian heresy. 426 00:20:49,681 --> 00:20:56,121 And even subordinationism and adoptionism become Trinitarian heresies because you're trying to identify what God is or God isn't. 427 00:20:56,421 --> 00:21:00,292 And you're not allowing the scriptural truth that God is three persons in one substance. 428 00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:01,526 Alright? 429 00:21:02,094 --> 00:21:02,494 Okay. 430 00:21:05,163 --> 00:21:11,670 Oh, the other thing to recognize, and this is one of the reasons I brought this up is, Arius was just trying to be relevant. 431 00:21:12,871 --> 00:21:13,405 That's all. 432 00:21:14,072 --> 00:21:15,073 He was just trying to be relevant. 433 00:21:15,841 --> 00:21:17,009 He was just trying to solve a problem. 434 00:21:17,843 --> 00:21:25,584 And in his zeal to be relevant and to solve a problem, he ended up in what we now call, claimed as one of the gravest of heresies. 435 00:21:26,118 --> 00:21:28,954 Arius is, you know, synonymous with arch-heretic. 436 00:21:29,254 --> 00:21:30,389 As nasty as they get. 437 00:21:30,389 --> 00:21:33,525 And all he was trying to do was be relevant and solve a problem. 438 00:21:34,326 --> 00:21:41,533 So this is a good word of warning to all of us that as we strive to take the scripture and God's truths and make them relevant, 439 00:21:41,833 --> 00:21:47,873 that we don't end up walking off into false teaching and wrong teaching because of our desire just to be relevant. 440 00:21:50,676 --> 00:21:51,043 Alright. 441 00:21:51,910 --> 00:21:52,311 Good. 442 00:21:52,311 --> 00:21:59,151 Now, the next topic up then, which is going to occupy us for the rest of the afternoon, if everything goes as I've got it planned, 443 00:21:59,951 --> 00:22:02,354 is going to be the issue of creation.