WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:27.400 Hello and welcome to Word and Work an Intersection. 2 00:00:27.400 --> 00:00:29.200 I'm your host Dale Meyer. 3 00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:31.000 Joining us today's Dr. 4 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:31.800 David Schmitt. 5 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:36.400 He is the Greg H. Benidt Memorial professor of Homiletics and 6 00:00:36.400 --> 00:00:41.000 Literature here Concordia Seminary and as if that isn't enough, he's 7 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.300 chairman of the Department of Practical Theology. 8 00:00:43.300 --> 00:00:49.500 He's with us today to discuss the Lenten season in today's world. 9 00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:56.300 It's been many centuries when the church has practiced 40 days before 10 00:00:56.300 --> 00:01:01.500 Good Friday and Easter as a time of devotion and David 11 00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:02.600 thank you for joining us. 12 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:07.300 I'm interested in what you're going to be thinking about this. And what 13 00:01:07.300 --> 00:01:07.600 are the 14 00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:12.100 reasons why? You're a logical person to be on set today is because of 15 00:01:12.100 --> 00:01:15.000 your part in the Gospel of Mark. 16 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:20.600 Would you explain for our audience what you and I and and four others 17 00:01:20.600 --> 00:01:24.300 from the Seminary did in memorizing and presenting the gospel of Mark 18 00:01:24.300 --> 00:01:28.100 Yeah, so the Gospel of Mark presentation was an oral. 19 00:01:29.600 --> 00:01:33.500 An oral I want to say performance, but I know Jim doesn't like it when 20 00:01:33.500 --> 00:01:37.000 we say. It was a performance. It's an oral performance of The Gospel of Mark. 21 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:44.200 We each memorize a section of it and then we dramatically presented 22 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:49.000 putting gestures and tone and using the space around us to help 23 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.700 recreate the section from Mark that we did. And my section was 24 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:58.600 basically that the ending of Mark the Passion of Christ and I think 25 00:01:58.600 --> 00:02:01.500 that's probably why you're thinking it would be a good connection with 26 00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:11.300 Lent as the. Mark is 16 chapters long and I let off but you were the closer. Right. 27 00:02:11.300 --> 00:02:11.800 The passion. 28 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:13.800 So it's about two and a half hour performance. 29 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:15.100 So people are 30 00:02:16.700 --> 00:02:21.300 they are immersed in the gospel of Mark at this point. 31 00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:24.800 Would you talk about that and also talk about how how the 32 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.800 memory and and the performing affected you personally? 33 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:30.100 Yeah. 34 00:02:30.100 --> 00:02:35.800 Well, that's that that I think is the interesting thing is in terms of 35 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:41.500 immersion the performance because you're hearing the entire gospel in 36 00:02:41.500 --> 00:02:46.500 one sitting. There are things you have heard before and sometimes even 37 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:52.200 gestures that the speakers have used that echo in your mind as you're 38 00:02:52.200 --> 00:02:58.400 listening to something else since and so you you have this this way of 39 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:03.600 holding together or seeing connections that you might not ever see if 40 00:03:03.600 --> 00:03:08.000 you were to say read one chapter and then wait a week and read another 41 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:11.900 chapter. And so it's that immersive interconnection and 42 00:03:11.900 --> 00:03:16.700 coherence of the pieces of the Gospel that I think is amazing 43 00:03:16.700 --> 00:03:21.500 for the experience of it. For presenting it for me 44 00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:31.000 it's a you find yourself making choices where there isn't a lot of 45 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:34.300 textual evidence what your choice should be. Right. 46 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:41.300 So Jesus in the opening scene for my piece when the woman anoints 47 00:03:41.300 --> 00:03:46.200 Jesus with oil and the disciples begin bickering among themselves. 48 00:03:46.200 --> 00:03:48.100 And Jesus says leave her alone. 49 00:03:48.100 --> 00:03:50.100 Well how does he say that? 50 00:03:50.100 --> 00:03:53.300 Is it with anger, leave her alone. 51 00:03:53.300 --> 00:03:56.300 Is it a beseeching leave her alone? 52 00:03:56.300 --> 00:03:57.300 I mean you know. Sweet Jesus guys don't do that, don't do that 53 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:11.200 it's just money. Right. So you know is he. When I dramatize it I because at the end he says that wherever the gospel 54 00:04:11.200 --> 00:04:14.900 is proclaimed what she has done will be told in memory of her. I see 55 00:04:14.900 --> 00:04:21.500 him as defending her and so I push my hand back and this way telling 56 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:25.000 them leave her alone as if he's protecting her then he turns to her to 57 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:28.300 raise her up. But that that dramatization 58 00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:35.600 calls you as the speaker to really enter into the scene and think 59 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:40.500 about space where a people positioned think about the dynamics of the 60 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:41.800 unfolding of this event. 61 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:43.500 And the beauty of it 62 00:04:43.500 --> 00:04:47.800 I think is that we we tend to read too fast. 63 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:53.400 We're just trained to read to fast and what this does is it slows it 64 00:04:53.400 --> 00:04:53.500 down. 65 00:04:53.500 --> 00:04:59.000 You know Dietrich Bonhoeffer said that we are not to take the Bible and put 66 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:00.000 it in the story of our lives. 67 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.300 But rather we are to put our lives into the story of the Bible. 68 00:05:04.300 --> 00:05:12.000 And and and that's what this does it for me early on one of the key 69 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:16.300 passages was the controversy with the Herodians and the 70 00:05:16.300 --> 00:05:16.800 Pharisees. 71 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.100 Jesus looked around at them with anger. 72 00:05:20.100 --> 00:05:26.700 Now the same deal how do we interpret that? Jesus was just not happy 73 00:05:26.700 --> 00:05:27.400 with those boys. No, the way I did it 74 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:34.200 he was angry. Right. And and so already being in those first 75 00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:39.900 chapters that I did everything is pointing toward your section and and 76 00:05:39.900 --> 00:05:41.400 the anointing by the woman. 77 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:48.900 One of the things I like about that is that you aside from Mark you 78 00:05:48.900 --> 00:05:57.600 are an intensely emotional person. I am your right that's true. And the great thing about your 79 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:04.900 preaching too it comes across so so we can feel that when you are Jesus 80 00:06:04.900 --> 00:06:09.500 is defending the woman. Now how at a personal devotional level since 81 00:06:09.500 --> 00:06:11.600 we're into Lent and times of reflection. 82 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:16.600 How did that scene get to your heart? 83 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:26.200 Well it it's a for me it's a beautiful scene because this woman is 84 00:06:26.200 --> 00:06:32.700 kind of an outsider, you know your, your the way I presented as a 85 00:06:32.700 --> 00:06:33.600 woman came. 86 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:37.400 So you got to have her kind of coming in with this jar of very 87 00:06:37.400 --> 00:06:42.300 expensive perfume and she does something unexpected and 88 00:06:42.300 --> 00:06:50.400 extravagant and you know to some people wasteful. And Jesus rises to 89 00:06:50.400 --> 00:06:57.400 defend her and is almost astonished that somebody gets it. 90 00:06:57.400 --> 00:07:03.000 So one of the lowest of the people in the Gospel actually gets 91 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.500 what's happening as he says, you know that what she has come to 92 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:09.900 understand she did she went ahead 93 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:12.000 understand she did she went ahead and anointed me for my burial. And so 94 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:18.100 you've got this moment of a very personal interaction of 95 00:07:18.100 --> 00:07:25.300 Jesus with someone who is a marginal figure and outside figure and he 96 00:07:25.300 --> 00:07:30.300 protects her and he holds her up and he actually says that even though 97 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:33.700 she's unnamed even though she's on them wherever the gospel is 98 00:07:33.700 --> 00:07:38.500 proclaimed what she has done will be told not in memory of me in 99 00:07:38.500 --> 00:07:41.800 memory of her in memory of her. And so you've got this 100 00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:48.400 this picture of Jesus who while he is giving his life for others is 101 00:07:48.400 --> 00:07:53.600 actually trying to preserve the identity of others and the actions of 102 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:55.700 others for for the rest of the world. 103 00:07:55.700 --> 00:07:59.600 What chapter is that in? 14 I think. 14. I don't know. Well we memorize it without . 14 yeah. Okay. 104 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:07.500 That's that that be about right. 105 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:13.600 As you were describing this she was a woman who was devoted to Jesus. 106 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:17.000 I'm thinking back to the Theological Symposium 107 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:21.900 we had a few years ago about devotion and you made a distinction there 108 00:08:21.900 --> 00:08:29.100 between devotion nothing wrong with that and being devoted. 109 00:08:29.100 --> 00:08:35.100 Could you talk about that for our audience and let the woman be the 110 00:08:35.100 --> 00:08:38.500 case study? Well for me 111 00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:42.600 the the distinction is that 112 00:08:44.900 --> 00:08:50.000 devotion is a deepening 113 00:08:51.400 --> 00:08:57.800 of attention to and practices of teachings of the faith that everybody 114 00:08:57.800 --> 00:08:58.700 else believes. 115 00:08:58.700 --> 00:09:04.600 So we all believe in the Creed, we all believe that God created the 116 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:09.900 world but we're not old devoted to the belief that God created the 117 00:09:09.900 --> 00:09:13.200 world. And people who are devoted to that believe, I'm thinking of Chuck 118 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:19.200 Arand, are going to find themselves engaging in activities that 119 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:28.600 express their delight their intense focus upon a particular teaching 120 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:30.700 of the faith. I should interject 121 00:09:30.700 --> 00:09:32.000 that Chuck Arand, Dr. 122 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:36.700 Arand, is a professor who has really led the faculty and our 123 00:09:36.700 --> 00:09:41.000 students into an appreciation of the First Article. Right. Because in 124 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:44.300 Christian America, we just jump to the second and a third but but 125 00:09:44.300 --> 00:09:45.900 yeah, that's what he's been doing. 126 00:09:45.900 --> 00:09:50.100 He has devoted to what other people sometimes think of 127 00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:50.300 yeah 128 00:09:50.300 --> 00:09:51.100 that's just a teacher. 129 00:09:51.400 --> 00:09:54.800 Also somebody a lot of people think, you know, if you were to call 130 00:09:54.800 --> 00:09:57.400 somebody out there and say, you know, can we talk and they say why I'm 131 00:09:57.400 --> 00:09:58.700 just I'm having my devotion. 132 00:09:58.700 --> 00:09:59.400 Can I call you back later? 133 00:09:59.400 --> 00:10:03.000 We would picture them sitting there reading their Bible and letting their 134 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.900 Bible lead them into prayer cuz that's how we understand devotion. 135 00:10:05.900 --> 00:10:09.600 But you know if I called Chuck off and he said a I'm having my 136 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.400 devotion you know can you call me back later. 137 00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:13.700 He might actually be out for a hike. 138 00:10:13.700 --> 00:10:18.600 He might actually be out cleaning up litter from alongside the you know, 139 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:23.200 the highway he could be doing something that is his practice of 140 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.100 devotion toward a particular teaching of the faith. 141 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:31.800 And so that's kind of the idea is that the devotional life is the way 142 00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:36.900 in which the spirit works in the community of the faith to draw 143 00:10:36.900 --> 00:10:41.900 various people to various teaching so that so that the community and 144 00:10:41.900 --> 00:10:45.700 the commute the whole Community benefits from this. So somebody who was 145 00:10:45.700 --> 00:10:50.500 devoted to Creation wrote the hymn praise to the Lord the Almighty the 146 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:51.300 King of 147 00:10:51.400 --> 00:10:52.000 Creation. Right. 148 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:58.900 We have these this hymnody that arose out of people who were devoted 149 00:10:58.900 --> 00:11:02.700 to particular teachings of the faith and then produced something that 150 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:06.500 the rest of the church can share. I think here, you know, we have a 151 00:11:06.500 --> 00:11:07.800 life team at the Seminary. 152 00:11:07.800 --> 00:11:12.100 We all believe that God is the creator of life and life should be 153 00:11:12.100 --> 00:11:12.500 preserved. 154 00:11:12.500 --> 00:11:14.800 We all believe that we're not all devoted to it. 155 00:11:14.800 --> 00:11:16.600 We're not all devoted to it. 156 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.200 But there are some in our community who are devoted to that which 157 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.100 means they start doing things and so yesterday on campus 158 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:27.700 we had a miscarriage service a service for the remembrance of children 159 00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:32.800 who have died from miscarriage or tragedy or stillbirth. And there's a 160 00:11:32.800 --> 00:11:37.700 service that people who are devoted to life and two issues of Life. 161 00:11:37.700 --> 00:11:40.900 They have thought about how do we minister to people who have had 162 00:11:40.900 --> 00:11:41.100 miscarriages. 163 00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:46.400 Is there ever any funeral for such a, you know, for families who gather 164 00:11:46.400 --> 00:11:46.900 around that? 165 00:11:46.900 --> 00:11:50.300 Let's have a service that allows 166 00:11:51.300 --> 00:11:56.400 grieving and mourning and also the hope of Christ to be proclaimed for 167 00:11:56.400 --> 00:12:01.100 such people. And so there is a case where a small group of people were 168 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:04.300 moved by the spirit to be devoted to this teaching and they produced 169 00:12:04.300 --> 00:12:08.100 something that the church itself can participate in. And so lives of 170 00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:09.800 devotion are more 171 00:12:09.800 --> 00:12:13.200 I'm not saying it's wrong to read your Bible and pray. I mean some 172 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:31.600 people say. David Schmitt write to him. Anybody can misinterpret anything you say. I'm not saying you shouldn't read your Bible and pray. What I am saying is devotion is more than that. Western culture compartmentalizes things. So I do my God thing on 173 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:35.300 Sunday, and maybe I have my devotion in the morning or evening 174 00:12:35.300 --> 00:12:39.100 whenever and the rest of the time in Western culture science 175 00:12:39.100 --> 00:12:44.700 dominates. You know pragmatism dominates. What dominates is you know, this thing 176 00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:47.600 could have been sold and given to the poor right? 177 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:51.200 So this devoted woman goes in there 178 00:12:51.400 --> 00:12:57.500 and she she cuts through the cultural obstacles. Right. To show her love 179 00:12:57.500 --> 00:12:58.000 for Jesus 180 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:04.200 I mean. Yes, right right. And our. In a way that is extravagant and an 181 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:06.100 actually becomes memorable, right? 182 00:13:06.100 --> 00:13:06.900 It's beautiful. 183 00:13:06.900 --> 00:13:12.100 It's extravagant and it's memorable. And and I think I from me that the 184 00:13:12.100 --> 00:13:15.400 whole that whole section of Mark that I do. 185 00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:22.200 It's interesting because it's a passion of Jesus, but it's also 186 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.600 revealing the passions of others. 187 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:32.200 So Jim has, Jim Voelz, we use something of his translation as we as we 188 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:39.800 do this. He has his translation at the very end when when the synagogue. 189 00:13:41.900 --> 00:13:42.800 What is this 190 00:13:42.800 --> 00:13:44.800 I can't remember the piece right now. 191 00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:53.800 The member of the Jewish Council comes in to request the body of Jesus 192 00:13:53.800 --> 00:13:59.400 and he says and Jim translated with great daring. 193 00:13:59.400 --> 00:14:04.600 He went in to request the body of Jesus and I think in that whole 194 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:09.100 section you see these moments of great daring. 195 00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:15.300 So this man was devoted to the practices of burial that than the 196 00:14:15.300 --> 00:14:19.700 showing of the respect for the dead and Jesus' body has been hung on the 197 00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:27.100 cross a dehumanizing activity and he wants to honor Jesus. And so he goes 198 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:33.400 into Pilot and requests the body of Jesus. And Jim says with 199 00:14:33.400 --> 00:14:36.800 great daring and so there's a moment where this guy with great daring 200 00:14:36.800 --> 00:14:41.300 is devoted to the practices of burial gets the body of Jesus and then 201 00:14:41.900 --> 00:14:45.000 wraps it in a linen closet he brought with him put it in the tomb. 202 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:49.300 I think Peter's action is even though it leads to his denial. 203 00:14:49.300 --> 00:14:52.600 It's a moment of great daring all of the disciples have fled and what 204 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:57.700 is Peter do. Peter decides to go to the high priest house and he's 205 00:14:57.700 --> 00:15:02.100 there in the courtyard with all of the other people there and 206 00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:03.400 getting warm by the fire. 207 00:15:03.400 --> 00:15:06.200 He's he's with great daring 208 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:10.600 he's trying to follow Jesus. And you know, obviously it's not enough 209 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:15.300 cuz he's relying on himself, but you've got these moments in that in 210 00:15:15.300 --> 00:15:23.300 that passion where particular individuals are called to manifest 211 00:15:23.300 --> 00:15:29.400 this passion that that happens as Jesus himself is entering his 212 00:15:29.400 --> 00:15:32.000 passion that saves us and I there is some beauty to that. 213 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.900 So in the in light of that the example you just used. Joseph of 214 00:15:35.900 --> 00:15:36.900 Arimathea, there we go that's the guy. I was thinking of that and I thought well maybe he's not 215 00:15:41.800 --> 00:15:55.800 named in Mark. He is named in others but he is. But I was thinking James and John who comes with all the spices it's not Nicodemus I know that's in John. But in Mark. It's hard out of the blue. It is. You don't know what I'm going to pop up with. 216 00:15:55.800 --> 00:15:56.800 So it's hard. 217 00:15:56.800 --> 00:16:03.000 I got some more that I'm going to spring on you. Great. Take those examples the woman, Joseph of 218 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:10.700 Arimathea, Peter when I sit in and do the the traditional devotional 219 00:16:10.700 --> 00:16:14.400 thing when you sit when our audience does that. 220 00:16:15.800 --> 00:16:21.000 What does that tell us? I mean, what does that suggest about the going along 221 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:26.800 with the culture that were in leaving leaving faith on Sunday? 222 00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:31.200 And what are the kind of things that that might penetrate down to say whoa 223 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:32.700 wait a minute. 224 00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:35.900 Let me think about my own attitudes. Well yeah 225 00:16:35.900 --> 00:16:40.800 and I think I think that phrase great daring is actually very 226 00:16:40.800 --> 00:16:46.900 descriptive of what you need to have to be a Christian. That the word 227 00:16:46.900 --> 00:16:54.000 of God when it works upon you it leads you into moments of great 228 00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:01.700 daring, you know. I even even something like the practice of having an ash, you 229 00:17:01.700 --> 00:17:04.400 know a cross with ashes on your head on Ash Wednesday. 230 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:10.500 When you go out into the world, there's just a little bit, a little bit of 231 00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:14.090 great daring for some people because you're you're kind of bearing a 232 00:17:14.090 --> 00:17:15.400 mark that 233 00:17:15.800 --> 00:17:23.300 that you are a follower of Christ. And in our culture there are, 234 00:17:23.300 --> 00:17:31.300 you know, used to be that our culture had a Judeo-Christian foundation. 235 00:17:31.300 --> 00:17:36.500 Not everybody was a Jew or a Christian but just kind of the moral 236 00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:41.300 frameworks of a Judeo-Christian foundation were part of our culture. And 237 00:17:41.300 --> 00:17:48.600 so being a Christian really flowed well with the culture and I think you 238 00:17:48.600 --> 00:17:52.900 can see something like the civil rights movement and the religious 239 00:17:52.900 --> 00:17:54.800 leaders like Martin Luther King Jr. 240 00:17:54.800 --> 00:18:00.100 Who would preach and that that that voice of the Christian church in 241 00:18:00.100 --> 00:18:05.500 the Civil Rights Movement went hand-in-glove with the Judeo-Christian 242 00:18:05.500 --> 00:18:07.300 foundations of our culture. 243 00:18:07.300 --> 00:18:10.300 And so that the church was kind of held up now. 244 00:18:10.300 --> 00:18:14.400 Unfortunately, it was being seen as patriotic rather than Christian 245 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:14.600 right? 246 00:18:14.600 --> 00:18:15.400 So being a 247 00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:18.800 Christian was patriotic, but it was received 248 00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:25.900 well. Now because those foundations have shifted the things which the 249 00:18:25.900 --> 00:18:27.700 church believes are 250 00:18:27.700 --> 00:18:36.100 sometimes seen as hate speech, sometimes seen as demeaning of others, 251 00:18:36.100 --> 00:18:40.700 sometimes seen as backward restrictive. 252 00:18:40.700 --> 00:18:48.400 And so that being a Christian is not necessarily understood by those 253 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:48.600 outside 254 00:18:48.600 --> 00:18:50.400 the church as being patriotic. 255 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.700 You're actually fighting against my freedoms. 256 00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:58.100 You're fighting against my freedom to abort my child if I want on my 257 00:18:58.100 --> 00:19:00.500 body is my own and I can do what I want with it. 258 00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:04.700 And so so having practicing 259 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:14.000 the devotion to the teachings of the faith takes great daring. The 260 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:19.100 change from Christian culture to where we are at today is I think one of 261 00:19:19.100 --> 00:19:22.300 the strange great blessings of our time. So I grew up in Christian 262 00:19:22.300 --> 00:19:22.800 America 263 00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:28.700 so did you and and I learned who gets ashes on their heads on. Catholics. Roman Catholics do. 264 00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:33.900 Catholics, no kidding. 265 00:19:34.700 --> 00:19:39.800 To do that personally was it took some daring. 266 00:19:39.800 --> 00:19:44.800 Not big daring in the world, but it but it but it was crossing 267 00:19:44.800 --> 00:19:45.700 something for me. 268 00:19:45.700 --> 00:19:51.100 And now when we read what civil rights leaders have talked about 269 00:19:51.100 --> 00:19:56.500 you see the Bible in a lot all that they do. 270 00:19:56.500 --> 00:19:58.300 Yes. That prompted their action. 271 00:19:58.300 --> 00:19:59.600 I'm not saying they're all right. 272 00:19:59.600 --> 00:20:03.300 I'm not saying that the people on the other side are all correct. 273 00:20:03.300 --> 00:20:08.900 But but there's the daring to do what Jesus has asked us to do. 274 00:20:08.900 --> 00:20:11.400 We're going to take a break now, but when I come back. 275 00:20:12.900 --> 00:20:16.400 When we come back, I hope you come back with me. 276 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:24.700 I want to ask about how you interpreted Jesus before Pilate and who's 277 00:20:24.700 --> 00:20:27.100 the king of the Jews? Stay with us 278 00:20:27.100 --> 00:20:30.200 this is interesting will be right back the gospel of Mark. 279 00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:32.200 Concordia Seminary St. 280 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:37.000 Louis provides continuing education resources for pastors and lay 281 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:42.100 people to discover all the Concordia Seminary has for you visit us on 282 00:20:42.100 --> 00:20:44.600 the web at CSL. 283 00:20:44.600 --> 00:20:45.400 EDU. 284 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.600 Welcome back to Work and Work an Intersection. 285 00:20:50.600 --> 00:20:53.400 I'm Dale Meyer. Today our guest is Dr. 286 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:58.000 David Schmitt and we're discussing the season of Lent especially 287 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:04.800 through the lens of the Gospel of Mark which you I and a four others 288 00:21:04.800 --> 00:21:08.300 memorized and presented. And it's a it's an immersive experience, 289 00:21:08.300 --> 00:21:14.300 but it's a profoundly for us and for the audience a devotional, a 290 00:21:14.300 --> 00:21:21.900 spiritual experience. One of the scenes that you do is Jesus before Pilate. 291 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:27.500 So would you just take us through the Bible History what's going on 292 00:21:27.500 --> 00:21:33.000 there who are the characters and then how Jesus answers Pilots 293 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:33.500 question. 294 00:21:33.500 --> 00:21:34.900 Are you the king of the Jews? 295 00:21:34.900 --> 00:21:36.000 Yeah. 296 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.600 So so the 297 00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:45.900 he has just been condemned by the Sanhedrin right? 298 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:52.700 And so they then immediately after taking console they are take Jesus 299 00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:55.200 and lead him and hand him over to Pilot. 300 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:58.000 And so you've got this handing over of Jesus that keeps happening. 301 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:02.500 Judas hands him over to the chief priest and the Pharisees, the 302 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:05.400 chief priest and Pharisees had them over to the Sanhedrin the Sanhedrin 303 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:09.700 now handsome over to Pilot. And pilot 304 00:22:10.600 --> 00:22:14.300 questions him. The first question pilot asked his are you the King of 305 00:22:14.300 --> 00:22:21.600 the Jews and interestingly in the trial before the high priest the 306 00:22:21.600 --> 00:22:24.800 question was are you the son of the blessed one? 307 00:22:24.800 --> 00:22:28.100 So kind of we have we have you in or are you the son of 308 00:22:28.100 --> 00:22:32.100 Yahweh and Jesus answers in a way that makes clear? 309 00:22:32.100 --> 00:22:32.400 Yes 310 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:32.700 I am. 311 00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:36.600 You're going to see me on the clouds of heaven and that causes a tear 312 00:22:36.600 --> 00:22:41.100 their coats and say and we have blasphemy here. But obviously of the 313 00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:44.400 the charge of blaspheming God is not going to make it in 314 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:45.300 the Roman system. 315 00:22:45.300 --> 00:22:48.600 And so they bring before Pilate and Pilate says 316 00:22:48.600 --> 00:22:52.800 are you the King of the Jews and Jesus that you know, the answer is 317 00:22:52.800 --> 00:22:57.600 you say, so. But how does how does he say that right. Does he's like, yeah, 318 00:22:57.600 --> 00:23:03.300 you say so. You know, or is it is it a little bit more intense. And I 319 00:23:03.300 --> 00:23:05.800 think it's Jesus 320 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:09.400 signaling to Pilate that he has 321 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:10.900 absolutely no clue 322 00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:16.900 what is happening. Because he says you say so? I mean as if pilot is 323 00:23:16.900 --> 00:23:20.500 really involved in this was a Pilate just being a pawn of others, 324 00:23:20.500 --> 00:23:21.200 right? 325 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:26.500 And and then right after that the Pharisees start accusing him of many 326 00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:31.000 things and then Pilate again picks up that cue of just what's going on 327 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:32.200 around him. And says 328 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.200 why do they accuse you of these many things. And than Jesus doesn't 329 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:35.800 answer him. 330 00:23:35.800 --> 00:23:41.100 And so you've got this some this questioning of Pilate is he just going 331 00:23:41.100 --> 00:23:46.000 along with the flow is he just a pawn in someone else's game or does 332 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:51.800 he have any belief at all at this in this matter. And I 333 00:23:51.800 --> 00:23:56.500 think Jim really, Jim Voelz, with his translation really captures that 334 00:23:56.500 --> 00:24:02.000 beautifully at the close of that trial before Pilate. When there's a 335 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.000 customer to release a prisoner for people and he releases 336 00:24:06.700 --> 00:24:12.800 bar Havas and Jim clarifies that bar Havas means the son of the father. 337 00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:19.300 And so you have this scene where Pilate hands bar Havas the son of 338 00:24:19.300 --> 00:24:24.700 the father he'll frees him and then hands Jesus the son of the father 339 00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:30.300 over to the soldiers to be crucified. And so you just have this this 340 00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:36.700 complete cluelessness of Pilate who's who's trying to manage a 341 00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:40.100 political situation and doesn't know what the stakes are for. 342 00:24:40.100 --> 00:24:43.400 There's a couple things are first of all, there's nothing in the text 343 00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:50.390 you say so. Right. That they gives that interpretation. Right. 344 00:24:50.390 --> 00:24:55.800 But the context makes it very plausible correct. Right. 345 00:24:55.800 --> 00:25:01.200 So so that it translations of the Bible are not just mechanical 346 00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:01.500 things. 347 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:05.000 There's always human interpretation that goes in and looking at the 348 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:05.700 context is important. 349 00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:10.800 The second thing that I think is so culturally relevant. 350 00:25:10.800 --> 00:25:15.300 Is that that answer you say, so. 351 00:25:16.700 --> 00:25:23.800 Helps us who are devoted to Jesus put national, local politics in 352 00:25:23.800 --> 00:25:24.300 perspective. 353 00:25:24.300 --> 00:25:31.000 We are born again of the most high. Right. 354 00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:32.000 And so yeah. 355 00:25:33.300 --> 00:25:37.300 So somebody comes on TV, I don't care what the strips of his politics are 356 00:25:37.300 --> 00:25:42.800 and says this ad or whatever and a Christian would think. 357 00:25:43.700 --> 00:25:50.600 You say so I got a loyalty higher. Right. Than you. Than you and 358 00:25:50.600 --> 00:25:53.000 even the country. God to love America. 359 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:58.500 Yeah. So the cultural breakthrough just a little scene like that. 360 00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:02.800 Whoa, we need lent and personal reflection. 361 00:26:02.800 --> 00:26:09.100 Then there's another time and you're performing your 362 00:26:09.100 --> 00:26:14.500 acting in the best sense of the word is is so full of impressions. 363 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.600 When they mock Jesus on the cross. Yeah. 364 00:26:19.600 --> 00:26:23.400 Yeah, you would stand off the side and if the setting was appropriate 365 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:26.900 to put your foot back up and it just took us about that. 366 00:26:26.900 --> 00:26:27.700 Yeah. 367 00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:33.800 I just I think it wasn't until I actually dramatized it in this 368 00:26:33.800 --> 00:26:43.500 performance that I I saw how offensive the mocking was cuz 369 00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:47.900 he's mocked at different levels of society. 370 00:26:47.900 --> 00:26:53.100 So there are those who are passing by that's the first one and they're 371 00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:57.800 kind of the farthest from the cross there just either not standing 372 00:26:57.800 --> 00:27:02.700 there watching through this walking by and they point up at it and 373 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:08.300 laugh at him. And you know say, you know, if you if you are the Son of 374 00:27:08.300 --> 00:27:13.200 God come down from the cross and so there's this mocking of 375 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:15.400 Jesus there. And then you move to 376 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:20.000 this other class of people that religious leaders and their standing 377 00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:25.200 to the side and they're not so much belittling. 378 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:26.500 Jesus as belittling 379 00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:31.000 anybody who's there who might believe in him. As they say, you know, 380 00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:36.700 this is the you know that this is your your son of God come down now 381 00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:40.600 for the cross that we might see and believe so there's this 382 00:27:40.600 --> 00:27:46.200 kind of challenging of Jesus. And then you end up at the last scene 383 00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:51.200 with the the very criminals who are crucified with him and they also 384 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:52.900 reveal him. 385 00:27:52.900 --> 00:27:57.800 So so Mark doesn't have that, you know that saving of the one 386 00:27:57.800 --> 00:28:01.800 criminal on the cross that you got in Luke. Mark has both of them 387 00:28:01.800 --> 00:28:04.000 at this point just reviling him. 388 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:10.300 And and so there's this this intensity of the the mocking of Christ 389 00:28:10.300 --> 00:28:15.300 that really comes out in that in that scene as your kind of watching 390 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:19.000 people who pass by mocking him those who are standing there watching 391 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.900 him are being challenged by the religious leaders as they mock him. 392 00:28:22.900 --> 00:28:26.100 And then even the ones who are dying with Jesus just revile him. 393 00:28:26.100 --> 00:28:29.500 Even though they're in the same situation. Martin Luther made a 394 00:28:29.500 --> 00:28:32.500 distinction between the Theology of the cross in the Theology of 395 00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.000 Glory. 396 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:39.200 So so the the ones who are mocking there in the Theology of Glory. 397 00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:47.400 Right. Our students, I think and I hope I'm wrong think of the Theology 398 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:51.000 of the Cross as saying that Jesus died for your sins. But it's much 399 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:52.900 deeper than that when you look at Mark 400 00:28:54.800 --> 00:29:01.900 there's the only Glory that shows up is is is the Transfiguration but 401 00:29:01.900 --> 00:29:06.290 when it comes to the real lives of people like us disciples live, they 402 00:29:06.290 --> 00:29:08.200 don't get it and all there 403 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:10.700 is this suffering. Right. 404 00:29:11.790 --> 00:29:19.300 Wow and talk about the talk about the end of the gospel because that's 405 00:29:19.300 --> 00:29:26.600 where we're going to get the glory, da da I'm alive. It doesn't happen. It ends instead of a bang on a whimper. 406 00:29:26.600 --> 00:29:30.000 Right. Talk about the ending at verse 8. 407 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:30.900 Yeah. And scholars say this is where it ends but it's just a whimpering out. 408 00:29:30.900 --> 00:29:40.900 I know when we perform this on the road and you finish it up there. 409 00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:43.700 You can tell you sense the audience is thinking 410 00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:47.200 where's the resurrection. Right, right. 411 00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:54.500 You have the women at the tomb and they the way it ends as they 412 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:59.300 fled from the tomb and they said nothing to anyone. 413 00:30:00.600 --> 00:30:08.000 They were afraid you know that gar that that Jim translates 414 00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:12.000 that last thing, you know, there's several there's several you knows in 415 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.000 the in that closing scene. 416 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.500 Like, you know, they they they're amazed that the stone has been 417 00:30:17.500 --> 00:30:21.100 rolled away from the tomb and then it says it was a large stone you 418 00:30:21.100 --> 00:30:26.400 know. And so there's this kind of assumption that the audience gets it 419 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:31.500 or the hearers get it. I had a gar in in my section of Peter and 420 00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:35.300 and Andrew were fishermen, you know. Right. Because I always wondered as a kid. 421 00:30:35.300 --> 00:30:40.600 Well, of course they were fishermen and it's just it's kind of a tip. 422 00:30:40.600 --> 00:30:45.200 Yeah, you know where. Yeah and then to have it you know, so it's it's 423 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:51.200 it's a stone and it's large oh yeah I know that and then all of the sudden at the end, 424 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:52.900 it's like the rug pulled out from you. 425 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:58.200 They said nothing to anyone they were afraid and it's like, you know, 426 00:30:58.200 --> 00:30:59.300 and you're like. 427 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:10.700 Yeah, I do know. It just hits you because you realize that sometimes our confession is 428 00:31:10.700 --> 00:31:16.200 is is hindered because of our fear and that doesn't stop Christ from 429 00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:16.800 reigning. 430 00:31:16.800 --> 00:31:18.400 He still is reigning. 431 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:20.200 He's still going to fulfill his promise. 432 00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:23.500 He still going to see the disciples there in Galilee where he's 433 00:31:23.500 --> 00:31:29.900 promised to be his word is still going to be fulfilled. But our you 434 00:31:29.900 --> 00:31:33.900 know, our moments of daring either end up being something quite 435 00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:37.900 beautiful and extraordinary like the woman's anointing of Jesus and 436 00:31:37.900 --> 00:31:40.200 Joseph of Arimathea gathering 437 00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:45.200 the body. Are something very foolish and humiliating on our part 438 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:49.200 by Peter trying to trying to stand up for Jesus and then actually 439 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.200 denying him. And yet in Christ 440 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.500 both of those actions can be part of God's kingdom. 441 00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:59.500 As he offers forgiveness for the times that we fail and he 442 00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:05.700 recognizes and and an honors and holds up for memory those moments 443 00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:08.900 when great daring lead into something beautiful by the. Mark chapter 16 444 00:32:08.900 --> 00:32:14.500 verse 8 ends with fear, you know. Right. And that's just where it leaves us. 445 00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:20.500 It's it's not jumping ahead to the gospel of the Resurrection it's 446 00:32:20.500 --> 00:32:25.100 saying wait a minute process this think of it in your own life. 447 00:32:25.100 --> 00:32:31.500 And then the word in our devotion says, yeah, he's alive the tomb is 448 00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:31.500 empty. 449 00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:40.400 He's with us. I think maybe for me also that interesting thing that you know, the only the only 450 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:45.300 human who actually calls Jesus the son of God is the Roman Centurion 451 00:32:45.300 --> 00:32:50.300 who's there at the cross, right. And the temple curtain rips and the 452 00:32:50.300 --> 00:32:56.200 Roman Centurion upon seeing how he breathed out his spirit said truly 453 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:59.100 this man was the Son of God. 454 00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:03.500 And if you think of Mark is being written to Christians who are in 455 00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:09.400 persecution, and therefore they are afraid to give any witness. Mark 456 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:15.200 also offers us the vision of hope that the very people who persecute 457 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:19.000 us the Romans, the Roman Centurion, the very people who persecute us 458 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:24.300 might be the people who confess Christ as Lord in the end by the power 459 00:33:24.300 --> 00:33:29.400 of God. And so there's kind of this this tension right of our fear 460 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:34.700 and yet God's ability to work that we that we confess. First epistle 461 00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:35.300 of Peter, 462 00:33:35.300 --> 00:33:40.600 he talks about doing good to all people including the Romans. And he 463 00:33:40.600 --> 00:33:44.400 says in Chapter 2 that they might glorify God on the day of 464 00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:44.600 visitation. 465 00:33:44.600 --> 00:33:51.500 We have so stratified things in our polarized society. You're Christian, 466 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:56.600 you're an Evangelical, you're Patriot your this year that and and we 467 00:33:56.600 --> 00:33:59.200 don't reach across the aisle in all sorts of ways. 468 00:34:00.700 --> 00:34:06.400 We're in Lent and it is time for being devoted and and and devotion. 469 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:10.800 What what do you suggest from your own experience and knowledge about 470 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.500 the personal practice of devotion? 471 00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:16.500 Not just the gospel of Mark. 472 00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:22.100 But you know, what are ways that most normal people can get a little 473 00:34:22.100 --> 00:34:26.300 deeper when when were in those moments of stillness before God. 474 00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:31.300 Well, I mean if we're if we're working with where most of us are when 475 00:34:31.300 --> 00:34:34.000 we're thinking about devotion, that would be the reading of scripture 476 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.400 leading into prayer. 477 00:34:39.600 --> 00:34:45.400 I think slowing down our reading is really important. 478 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:54.400 We we read too quickly and and we we read pragmatically so we read for 479 00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:00.400 information rather than formation and part of our work as we're 480 00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:05.900 reading and meditating on the scriptures is to to take time to let 481 00:35:05.900 --> 00:35:10.900 them be heard and chewed and thought about. You to put yourself in the 482 00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:14.400 seem like we have to do with Mark when you read it read it out loud, 483 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:17.600 but take time with it. 484 00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:23.500 And then I think I've always appreciated the collect form that the 485 00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:30.000 church uses for its collects because what the collect form does is it 486 00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:38.100 grounds our prayers in God and what God has revealed about himself and 487 00:35:38.100 --> 00:35:39.200 promised about himself. 488 00:35:39.200 --> 00:35:42.200 So, you know, if you remember the collect form it was about the 489 00:35:42.200 --> 00:35:42.400 inscription. 490 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.400 Oh God and that is got the ground. 491 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:48.400 There's something about God that we have learned. 492 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:53.100 Oh God who has promised to bless your people in times of trial. 493 00:35:53.100 --> 00:35:55.500 So, you know you take James 494 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:58.800 draw near to God and He will draw near to you that passage says 495 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:00.100 draw near to God He will draw near to you. 496 00:36:00.100 --> 00:36:04.300 Oh God who has promised that when we draw near you will draw near to 497 00:36:04.300 --> 00:36:04.600 us. 498 00:36:04.600 --> 00:36:08.800 So that's the ground then you have your petition, which is you know, I 499 00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:13.200 pray that you would help me come nearer to you or I pray that you 500 00:36:13.200 --> 00:36:16.200 would come near to me now and then there's what is called the 501 00:36:16.200 --> 00:36:17.200 aspiration. 502 00:36:17.200 --> 00:36:18.800 Why do you desire this? 503 00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.600 How do you desire God to form you? 504 00:36:20.600 --> 00:36:23.900 You know, oh God who has promised that you would draw near to your 505 00:36:23.900 --> 00:36:25.200 people when they draw near to you. 506 00:36:25.200 --> 00:36:29.600 I pray that you would come towards me now so that I might be equipped 507 00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:31.100 to bring you closer to 508 00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:37.000 others in you know my workings this day and then you close. So I think 509 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:42.900 a lot of times our prayer life can be driven by our needs and and 510 00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.900 that's fine God's open to hearing anything 511 00:36:44.900 --> 00:36:46.500 we have to say his children to him. 512 00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:50.600 But you know, so sometimes people start their prayer with themself. 513 00:36:50.600 --> 00:36:51.600 Here's what I need. 514 00:36:51.600 --> 00:36:52.900 Here's what's going on in my life. 515 00:36:52.900 --> 00:36:55.900 I'm just laying this before God. And can I get a senior citizen discount. I know, I know. And I think the collect 516 00:36:58.500 --> 00:37:03.200 form says let God start your prayers. 517 00:37:03.200 --> 00:37:04.500 What has God said to you? 518 00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:05.600 What is he revealed to you? 519 00:37:05.600 --> 00:37:12.500 Do you read a Psalm and you choose some teaching from that Psalm. You 520 00:37:12.500 --> 00:37:18.400 know Psalm 94:19 when troubles fill my mind your consolations cheer my 521 00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:23.100 soul. And now this becomes my prayer o God our god of great consolation 522 00:37:23.100 --> 00:37:26.100 who promises to share his consolation with us. 523 00:37:26.100 --> 00:37:30.900 I pray that you would come to me now in my mind is so troubled and you 524 00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:36.300 would share my soul why so that I might share that consolation with 525 00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:38.700 some, you know name of person who is suffering. 526 00:37:38.700 --> 00:37:42.800 So it's just a practice of of allowing scripture to lead you into 527 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.800 prayer. And that's the way we increasingly form our students here at 528 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:48.000 the Seminary. Some years ago 529 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:54.090 the residential curriculum was totally revised and you had a big 530 00:37:54.090 --> 00:37:57.090 part in that including the new way 531 00:37:57.090 --> 00:37:58.200 we teach homiletics. 532 00:37:59.300 --> 00:38:04.700 And in in in some of our homiletics class, we actually have to profs a 533 00:38:04.700 --> 00:38:06.500 preaching prof a homiletician 534 00:38:06.500 --> 00:38:07.800 and then also exegete. 535 00:38:10.300 --> 00:38:14.000 What we do when we when we look at a text and I'm thinking now of 536 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.100 Ezekiel 37 the valley of dry bones. 537 00:38:16.100 --> 00:38:21.200 We read that through in class several times not just read it and say, 538 00:38:21.200 --> 00:38:25.700 okay, how can I preach the read it through several times. 539 00:38:25.700 --> 00:38:27.800 And each time now, I'm hearing this and 540 00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:32.700 I'm hearing that. For me getting back to the gospel of Mark. 541 00:38:32.700 --> 00:38:38.000 This is the slow reading and it is something that Luther advised his 542 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:39.300 advice to Peter the Barber. 543 00:38:39.300 --> 00:38:41.600 So just let something jump out at you. 544 00:38:41.600 --> 00:38:46.100 Let the Holy Spirit preach. Mark 4:24 and our colleague in the gospel of 545 00:38:46.100 --> 00:38:53.100 Mark, Ron Rall, did this and it says when you pray believe that you 546 00:38:53.100 --> 00:38:56.100 have received it and it will be yours. 547 00:38:58.300 --> 00:39:00.800 Not please give me this. 548 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:03.000 Believe that you have received. 549 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.400 Well, why should I? 550 00:39:06.600 --> 00:39:09.200 When I'm when I'm stopped on a minute like that. 551 00:39:10.700 --> 00:39:14.500 Why should I rush ahead because I've got to get to chapters read 552 00:39:14.500 --> 00:39:19.100 today. Right. Well you see that's the problem, right we read in terms of 553 00:39:19.100 --> 00:39:23.900 quantity rather than quality. We train people that way, you know. 554 00:39:23.900 --> 00:39:27.600 We have read through the Bible in a year program. Or read through, you 555 00:39:27.600 --> 00:39:32.300 know you in summer kids have these reading programs we get a star for 556 00:39:32.300 --> 00:39:36.200 reading so many books and we're just we try to measure things 557 00:39:36.200 --> 00:39:40.300 quantitatively rather than qualitatively. And you know, maybe I 558 00:39:40.300 --> 00:39:44.000 could spend in a 1/2 hour reading one verse. 559 00:39:44.700 --> 00:39:52.100 Right. Because then if it sinks it and you slow down the process. 59th Street 560 00:39:52.100 --> 00:39:56.900 Bridge Song is not in the hymnal but it says slow down you move 561 00:39:56.900 --> 00:39:57.500 too fast. 562 00:39:57.500 --> 00:40:00.100 You got to make up the devotion last. 563 00:40:05.100 --> 00:40:08.600 Okay we're going to put Mark aside for the moment. And 564 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:11.900 I had our students 565 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:17.200 read a sermon that you wrote Graveyards and Grace. 566 00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:23.300 Okay, and this is really about Lent and the Theology of the Cross the 567 00:40:23.300 --> 00:40:27.000 suffering. Could you just tell us in in the minute-and-a-half 568 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:32.900 we have left tell us about that that that experience the bride the 569 00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:34.700 graveyard and how it impacts the real world we live in? 570 00:40:34.700 --> 00:40:41.100 That was a sermon I originally wrote for I don't know what it's 571 00:40:41.100 --> 00:40:43.900 called now, but at the time was called Wheat Ridge Ministries and they 572 00:40:43.900 --> 00:40:46.000 were having a conference for human care. 573 00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:49.100 So those who are caregivers in Christian Ministry. 574 00:40:49.100 --> 00:40:55.600 And what surprised me about that text from Ezekiel is that God takes 575 00:40:55.600 --> 00:41:02.500 his holy priest of Ezekiel and immerses him among dry bones and and 576 00:41:02.500 --> 00:41:09.100 it basically situates him in a graveyard. And the idea 577 00:41:09.100 --> 00:41:11.100 is that sometimes our 578 00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:16.500 conceptions of what God is going to do in our life are very 579 00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:22.400 glorious and beautiful and exalted and then God does something 580 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:27.000 completely different and immerses us in the midst of suffering. 581 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:32.700 Knowing that in the midst of that suffering is where his true power 582 00:41:32.700 --> 00:41:37.400 and grace and beauty and glory are shown. Your illustration was a young 583 00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:44.600 bride. Right, a young bride it was out in Harmony Church out in Wright City and outside of Wright City actually in this 584 00:41:44.600 --> 00:41:48.800 old country church and and she was thinking of using it for her 585 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:52.800 wedding and she loved the inside of the church very intimate. Which she 586 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.900 came out of the church 587 00:41:53.900 --> 00:41:57.400 when you open the doors, you're looking right on a graveyard. 588 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:01.700 I mean it's the the graveyard right there on Straight Church Road. And 589 00:42:01.700 --> 00:42:04.000 said, she's said no way 590 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.700 do I want to come out of my wedding day and look at a graveyard and 591 00:42:08.700 --> 00:42:10.900 and you know, that's how it is, you know the bride of Christ, 592 00:42:11.700 --> 00:42:18.700 the bride of Christ. And bring that illustration home now by going to Mark and. 593 00:42:18.700 --> 00:42:25.700 Yeah where you have the demoniac, right. And Jesus in his own Ministry is the one who's found in 594 00:42:25.700 --> 00:42:30.200 the middle of a graveyard and the people the people surrounding him have 595 00:42:30.200 --> 00:42:34.200 given up on this guy they've tried to help him but the chains the 596 00:42:34.200 --> 00:42:35.700 clothes none of that will work. 597 00:42:35.700 --> 00:42:42.500 And so he's the living, living among the dead and Jesus comes and and 598 00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:48.500 brings him life by attending to his needs and that's kind of a the 599 00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:54.100 goal of the sermon. And at the end of the of the Gospel of Mark who was it that begged 600 00:42:54.100 --> 00:42:54.800 for the body? 601 00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:57.500 It was Joseph of Arimathea. 602 00:42:57.500 --> 00:43:02.100 I will never forget that now. Joseph of Arimathea and it doesn't this all 603 00:43:02.100 --> 00:43:02.600 come together. 604 00:43:02.600 --> 00:43:06.000 Jesus is Alive. 605 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:08.300 Do not fear. 606 00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:13.000 And he's with us in our graveyards and all our times of suffering. 607 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.600 I pray and I know Dr. 608 00:43:15.600 --> 00:43:16.200 Schmitt 609 00:43:16.200 --> 00:43:18.200 we thank you so so much for being with us. 610 00:43:18.200 --> 00:43:21.500 I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and thank you for our 611 00:43:21.500 --> 00:43:22.800 audience for being with us. 612 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:27.300 I pray that this is really be deepening for your Lenten Devotion. To 613 00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:32.000 listen to the sermon Graveyard and Grace, please visit scholar. 614 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:38.900 Csl.edu and search Ezekiel 37 scholar. 615 00:43:38.900 --> 00:43:45.600 Csl.edu and search Ezekiel 37. May the intersection of Word and Work be busy and 616 00:43:45.600 --> 00:43:47.300 a blessing on your corner.