1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,637 And the question of close communion, that's probably where we are, so let's talk about 2 00:00:04,637 --> 00:00:05,105 that. 3 00:00:08,708 --> 00:00:11,945 The very first question you encounter, is it close or is it closed? 4 00:00:14,948 --> 00:00:21,087 And I have talked to some people who get really upset about this and really, it's close, not 5 00:00:21,087 --> 00:00:21,488 closed. 6 00:00:21,554 --> 00:00:23,123 And they get all bent out of shape about it. 7 00:00:24,224 --> 00:00:26,826 Bottom line is, that doesn't really matter. 8 00:00:29,162 --> 00:00:33,800 In the early church, they probably called it closed communion or, you know, because 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:34,801 that was just the way it was. 10 00:00:35,001 --> 00:00:40,006 We try to call it close communion because, oh, that's not quite so offensive. 11 00:00:40,407 --> 00:00:44,677 But bottom line is, it's going to be offensive, however you call it, so don't get worried 12 00:00:44,677 --> 00:00:45,111 about it. 13 00:00:45,111 --> 00:00:46,179 It's not that big of a deal. 14 00:00:46,646 --> 00:00:47,781 The name of it really doesn't matter. 15 00:00:48,214 --> 00:00:54,854 What we're describing when we talk about close or closed, and I guess I prefer closed just 16 00:00:54,854 --> 00:00:56,456 because it's nastier sounding. 17 00:01:00,794 --> 00:01:05,932 Closed communion, what we're talking about here is the fact that the altar is for those 18 00:01:05,932 --> 00:01:10,703 who believe like is taught at that altar, for people of like faith. 19 00:01:11,104 --> 00:01:14,774 And so it is for the community of believers. 20 00:01:21,147 --> 00:01:23,817 This is the celebration of the unity that they share. 21 00:01:23,950 --> 00:01:28,288 The unity is more than just, yeah, we all believe in Jesus. 22 00:01:29,389 --> 00:01:32,225 Unity is in the unity of teaching, the unity of doctrine. 23 00:01:32,625 --> 00:01:38,164 And so we go back to our corpus doctrina idea and we have the body of doctrine. 24 00:01:38,431 --> 00:01:39,466 It's the whole thing. 25 00:01:39,966 --> 00:01:43,069 And you can't just, you know, say, oh, we all believe in Jesus. 26 00:01:43,169 --> 00:01:44,270 We all have the same heart. 27 00:01:44,270 --> 00:01:44,904 That's nice. 28 00:01:45,305 --> 00:01:46,406 Well, what about everything else? 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,678 And so what we're saying is, what scripture teaches is, this communion, the Lord's Supper 30 00:01:51,678 --> 00:01:54,914 is a celebration of the community of believers. 31 00:01:56,516 --> 00:01:59,986 And so those who are communing are in communion with each other. 32 00:02:01,121 --> 00:02:06,793 It's not just a one-on-one me and Jesus meal, even though in our American psyche we tend 33 00:02:06,793 --> 00:02:07,694 to think that way. 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,128 We're the rugged individualists. 35 00:02:09,562 --> 00:02:10,463 It's just me and Jesus. 36 00:02:10,663 --> 00:02:11,865 Who cares about anybody else? 37 00:02:12,031 --> 00:02:13,032 I can get the sacrament. 38 00:02:13,166 --> 00:02:13,867 It's just me and Jesus. 39 00:02:13,867 --> 00:02:15,135 Well, that's not true. 40 00:02:15,735 --> 00:02:20,306 Because when you take holy communion, you're up there kneeling and there is a whole bunch 41 00:02:20,306 --> 00:02:21,641 of people all around you. 42 00:02:21,975 --> 00:02:25,111 And everybody there at that rail sharing that rail with you and everybody who is sharing 43 00:02:25,111 --> 00:02:29,682 that cup with you and sharing that bread with you, they are all together with you in this 44 00:02:29,682 --> 00:02:30,183 celebration. 45 00:02:30,917 --> 00:02:32,886 And you should be celebrating the unity that you have. 46 00:02:33,019 --> 00:02:36,789 And so if you don't have unity with somebody, you don't act like you do. 47 00:02:37,223 --> 00:02:38,558 It's just that simple. 48 00:02:39,025 --> 00:02:40,493 That's what close communion means. 49 00:02:40,860 --> 00:02:42,061 And that's why we teach it. 50 00:02:42,695 --> 00:02:49,202 Now, within the community, it becomes a great celebration of the unity that's there. 51 00:02:49,402 --> 00:02:53,439 If you're not part of the community, well, yeah, it makes you feel kind of excluded. 52 00:02:54,174 --> 00:02:55,508 And Kolb says this really well. 53 00:02:55,942 --> 00:03:02,782 Lines of inclusion that surround a community are also just by default lines of exclusion. 54 00:03:03,449 --> 00:03:08,054 If the line of my doctrine includes all of us who all agree, well, the people who don't 55 00:03:08,054 --> 00:03:10,924 agree are now on the outside of that line. 56 00:03:10,924 --> 00:03:11,691 You can't help it. 57 00:03:12,192 --> 00:03:16,563 So if you're going to have something you confess, and if you confess that and it matters, that 58 00:03:16,563 --> 00:03:19,699 is by just immediately a line of demarcation. 59 00:03:20,099 --> 00:03:21,234 We all confess this. 60 00:03:22,068 --> 00:03:23,903 Someone who doesn't, well, they don't. 61 00:03:24,003 --> 00:03:25,171 That means they're not part of. 62 00:03:25,305 --> 00:03:26,339 It's just that simple. 63 00:03:26,906 --> 00:03:28,007 It's not that complicated. 64 00:03:28,174 --> 00:03:28,942 It's not that hard. 65 00:03:30,109 --> 00:03:35,615 The problem, of course, is that the people who are out here feel like, ooh, they're judging 66 00:03:35,615 --> 00:03:36,115 me. 67 00:03:36,616 --> 00:03:40,019 And, ooh, they're saying they're better than I am. 68 00:03:40,019 --> 00:03:41,721 Or something's wrong with me. 69 00:03:42,188 --> 00:03:43,156 And that's not what we're saying. 70 00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:46,626 So closed communion actually has several aspects. 71 00:03:46,993 --> 00:03:48,027 Why do we do it? 72 00:03:48,294 --> 00:03:53,600 Well, the first one that everybody knows about, and it goes back to the Mandocatio Indignorum, 73 00:03:54,167 --> 00:03:58,805 is the fact that we want to do it for the protection of unbelievers. 74 00:04:02,408 --> 00:04:04,410 So the protection of unbelievers. 75 00:04:04,611 --> 00:04:09,682 Because if I don't recognize the body and blood of Christ, and I go up there and take 76 00:04:09,682 --> 00:04:12,218 the sacrament, is that good for me or bad for me? 77 00:04:13,486 --> 00:04:14,487 Bad for me. 78 00:04:14,988 --> 00:04:15,855 First Corinthians 11. 79 00:04:16,823 --> 00:04:18,224 So that's the first reason. 80 00:04:18,491 --> 00:04:19,459 Simply because we care. 81 00:04:20,460 --> 00:04:21,527 And that will go so far. 82 00:04:21,594 --> 00:04:22,428 People will say, oh, that's nice. 83 00:04:22,595 --> 00:04:23,162 Okay, I like that. 84 00:04:23,296 --> 00:04:24,130 We're not going to hurt anybody. 85 00:04:24,764 --> 00:04:30,136 But now I've got Uncle Jim and Aunt Mabel who are visiting here from out of town, and they're 86 00:04:30,136 --> 00:04:30,670 Methodists. 87 00:04:30,837 --> 00:04:32,105 Can they come to communion with me, Pastor? 88 00:04:32,805 --> 00:04:34,274 Well, no, we have closed communion. 89 00:04:34,607 --> 00:04:35,575 Yeah, but they're believers. 90 00:04:35,808 --> 00:04:37,043 I don't have to worry about them getting hurt. 91 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:37,644 They won't get hurt. 92 00:04:37,744 --> 00:04:38,878 They know it's the body and blood of Christ. 93 00:04:38,878 --> 00:04:43,850 And yeah, they're members of the Methodist Church, but they really believe like we do. 94 00:04:44,150 --> 00:04:46,586 They know it's really the body and blood of Christ because anybody who reads the Bible 95 00:04:46,586 --> 00:04:47,120 knows that. 96 00:04:47,186 --> 00:04:48,054 And they really believe like we do. 97 00:04:48,087 --> 00:04:50,423 They just go to that church because they like the music and stuff. 98 00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:51,758 But they really like us. 99 00:04:52,292 --> 00:04:53,926 So they can commune, right, Pastor? 100 00:04:55,128 --> 00:04:56,129 Well, see, we're not done. 101 00:04:56,195 --> 00:04:56,963 There's more to it. 102 00:04:57,263 --> 00:04:59,132 It's not just for the protection of unbelievers. 103 00:04:59,332 --> 00:05:03,636 It's also because of this idea of the celebration of unity. 104 00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:10,910 We had a Methodist pastor tell us that it didn't matter what was the elements of the 105 00:05:10,910 --> 00:05:11,477 sacrament. 106 00:05:11,811 --> 00:05:15,048 He said he'd given his youth group Oreos and Coke. 107 00:05:15,348 --> 00:05:18,551 He says that he hopes to do beer and pizza someday. 108 00:05:20,186 --> 00:05:21,988 Yeah, there's a name for guys like that. 109 00:05:22,388 --> 00:05:23,990 Mmm, it's not nice. 110 00:05:29,929 --> 00:05:32,165 Discretion prevents me from sharing it. 111 00:05:32,165 --> 00:05:34,667 Alright, so the celebration of unity. 112 00:05:35,234 --> 00:05:36,969 We are celebrating a unity that we have. 113 00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:42,342 It's not just like, hey, you know, anybody can come up here because this is a unity that 114 00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:45,011 goes deeper than just I'll all believe in Jesus. 115 00:05:45,178 --> 00:05:47,513 This is a celebration of the unity that we have in doctrine. 116 00:05:48,014 --> 00:05:49,182 That's a part of this too. 117 00:05:49,916 --> 00:05:57,056 So what we would say is that Aunt Mabel and whoever I had, Uncle Wonder was he, it's great 118 00:05:57,056 --> 00:06:03,363 to have you here and I'm glad that you're a faithful member of your congregation and 119 00:06:03,363 --> 00:06:04,864 I'm glad that you're following Christ. 120 00:06:05,064 --> 00:06:05,365 That's great. 121 00:06:05,531 --> 00:06:09,135 Keep doing that and when you're home at your congregation, please by all means go take 122 00:06:09,135 --> 00:06:13,606 communion but when you're here, you have a different faith than we do, a different confession 123 00:06:13,606 --> 00:06:16,809 than we do and it really isn't appropriate for you to commune here because when I come 124 00:06:16,809 --> 00:06:18,411 to your church, I won't commune at yours either. 125 00:06:18,611 --> 00:06:19,512 Oh, but we want you too. 126 00:06:19,612 --> 00:06:20,279 It doesn't matter. 127 00:06:20,446 --> 00:06:22,715 I wouldn't because we're just disagreeing. 128 00:06:23,282 --> 00:06:25,051 This teaching is not a new one. 129 00:06:25,685 --> 00:06:28,855 Closed communion has been the teaching of the church from the very beginning. 130 00:06:29,155 --> 00:06:30,223 That was always what was taught. 131 00:06:31,190 --> 00:06:36,729 In the early church, you know what the practice was, we know this from the d'adacé which 132 00:06:36,729 --> 00:06:42,835 is a second century document, we know from that document that in the early church when 133 00:06:42,835 --> 00:06:45,438 it came time to celebrate communion, they would all get together and they would have 134 00:06:45,438 --> 00:06:46,072 their church service. 135 00:06:46,339 --> 00:06:53,346 When it came time to celebrate the sacrament, they would have the exchange of peace, the 136 00:06:53,346 --> 00:06:57,016 building, anybody who had not yet been baptized. 137 00:06:57,784 --> 00:06:59,352 All the catechumens were dismissed. 138 00:07:00,753 --> 00:07:04,791 I might even be somebody who was studying the catechism, learning to become, you know, 139 00:07:04,824 --> 00:07:09,462 waiting to be baptized and studying and preparing and when it came time for the sacrament, I 140 00:07:09,462 --> 00:07:10,129 was dismissed. 141 00:07:10,396 --> 00:07:11,164 I couldn't be there. 142 00:07:12,632 --> 00:07:14,434 Now you talk about closed communion. 143 00:07:14,901 --> 00:07:15,968 That's closed communion. 144 00:07:17,270 --> 00:07:23,309 It'd be like us standing at my church saying, okay, everybody who's not a member of this 145 00:07:23,309 --> 00:07:24,043 church, we celebrate communion. 146 00:07:24,977 --> 00:07:25,511 That's what they did. 147 00:07:26,579 --> 00:07:30,216 And this has been the practice of the church all through the ages. 148 00:07:30,783 --> 00:07:34,687 If you go over to the Cathedral Basilica over in the central west end today and if you're 149 00:07:34,687 --> 00:07:37,056 new to St. Louis you don't know about yet, sometimes go over there and check it out. 150 00:07:37,323 --> 00:07:39,158 It's worth the 45 minute wandering around. 151 00:07:39,625 --> 00:07:41,794 It's got the largest collection of mosaics in the world. 152 00:07:42,829 --> 00:07:44,330 It's right here just down the road a bit. 153 00:07:44,464 --> 00:07:45,164 It's worth checking out. 154 00:07:45,331 --> 00:07:48,568 It's one of those take your parents here when they come to visit on, you know, one of those 155 00:07:48,568 --> 00:07:49,135 tourist spots. 156 00:07:49,168 --> 00:07:51,270 It's worth checking out on your way to the brewery. 157 00:07:54,540 --> 00:08:00,947 And so you check out the central west end and when you walk into that cathedral there'll 158 00:08:00,947 --> 00:08:04,851 be a little card that will say there, we welcome you to our cathedral if you're here for mass. 159 00:08:04,984 --> 00:08:05,384 That's great. 160 00:08:05,685 --> 00:08:06,886 But don't take communion. 161 00:08:07,186 --> 00:08:07,954 It's just for Catholics. 162 00:08:09,355 --> 00:08:11,958 They practice closed communion and they always have. 163 00:08:12,992 --> 00:08:16,028 So closed communion is not meant to be exclusionary. 164 00:08:16,095 --> 00:08:18,931 It's just a recognition of the fact that there's a difference. 165 00:08:19,532 --> 00:08:21,267 And we're just acknowledging that. 166 00:08:21,701 --> 00:08:24,103 Now the problem is people find this patently offensive. 167 00:08:24,303 --> 00:08:25,104 Something's wrong with me. 168 00:08:25,304 --> 00:08:27,640 We have to be careful to tell people nothing's wrong with you. 169 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,408 You just have a different profession. 170 00:08:29,575 --> 00:08:30,076 That's all. 171 00:08:30,810 --> 00:08:32,612 And I'm not judging your faith. 172 00:08:32,745 --> 00:08:34,146 I'm not saying you're going to hell. 173 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:35,681 I'm not saying you're a bad Christian. 174 00:08:35,882 --> 00:08:37,083 I'm just saying you're different. 175 00:08:37,817 --> 00:08:40,920 Let's just call it like it is and quit playing silly games here. 176 00:08:41,454 --> 00:08:42,922 So that's why the practice of closed communion. 177 00:08:43,523 --> 00:08:47,093 It's not a popular one because it seems to be judging people. 178 00:08:47,093 --> 00:08:48,928 But it is the practice of the church. 179 00:08:49,762 --> 00:08:51,664 And to be able to stand up in front of the church and say, 180 00:08:51,998 --> 00:08:55,434 it's up to you where you stand with Jesus, you decide, 181 00:08:55,535 --> 00:08:57,169 is missing the point of the sacrament. 182 00:08:57,403 --> 00:08:58,905 This is the congregation's sacrament. 183 00:08:59,071 --> 00:09:00,406 The sacrament is celebrating together. 184 00:09:00,706 --> 00:09:03,309 This is not just a me and Jesus thing. 185 00:09:03,442 --> 00:09:05,311 It is the whole community thing. 186 00:09:05,711 --> 00:09:08,481 And the community is celebrating the unity and 187 00:09:08,481 --> 00:09:11,484 the confession that is there that they all share. 188 00:09:11,817 --> 00:09:13,853 And if you don't share it, you really don't belong at that altar. 189 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:15,655 It's just that easy. 190 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:16,756 No. 191 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:21,027 Are you defining community then as just the congregation? 192 00:09:21,928 --> 00:09:25,531 Are you defining community as like the Lutheran church? 193 00:09:25,631 --> 00:09:27,533 I would say the community starts with the congregation. 194 00:09:27,833 --> 00:09:28,834 That's where I would do it. 195 00:09:28,935 --> 00:09:30,770 Now you can draw it a little wider, but 196 00:09:30,770 --> 00:09:32,338 I think ultimately it is that congregation. 197 00:09:32,471 --> 00:09:34,140 Which is why I think it is good practice. 198 00:09:35,007 --> 00:09:38,878 Even if you are an LCMS individual and you're in another LCMS congregation, 199 00:09:39,045 --> 00:09:41,347 if that's not your home congregation, it's good practice to go and 200 00:09:41,347 --> 00:09:41,948 talk to the pastor. 201 00:09:42,348 --> 00:09:44,016 That's what I do when I came here. 202 00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:45,251 I asked if it was okay. 203 00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:45,952 That's right. 204 00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:49,121 Because you're letting him know that you're there. 205 00:09:49,255 --> 00:09:50,256 He knows who you are. 206 00:09:50,489 --> 00:09:52,425 Now when he gives you the host, he knows what you're doing. 207 00:09:52,625 --> 00:09:53,359 He knows where you are. 208 00:09:53,659 --> 00:09:57,330 That's just appropriate because that community is celebrating it. 209 00:09:58,297 --> 00:10:00,466 You're asking to be part of that community, essentially, 210 00:10:00,499 --> 00:10:02,468 is what you're asking, which is a good thing to ask. 211 00:10:02,735 --> 00:10:03,469 That's appropriate. 212 00:10:05,338 --> 00:10:07,073 My church put a disclaimer in the bulletin, but 213 00:10:07,073 --> 00:10:08,207 what if churches don't do that? 214 00:10:08,374 --> 00:10:09,141 How do they deal with this? 215 00:10:09,208 --> 00:10:10,543 Well, there are, like I said, 216 00:10:10,710 --> 00:10:13,245 the practice on this is all over the map right now. 217 00:10:13,245 --> 00:10:16,849 And I can stand up here today and say, boom, this is it. 218 00:10:17,116 --> 00:10:18,217 And spout it out and we're all done. 219 00:10:18,551 --> 00:10:21,320 The fact is, there are pastors all over the place on this thing and 220 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,255 there are a lot of congregations that are just scared to death to try to 221 00:10:23,255 --> 00:10:24,924 practice close communion, don't want to do it. 222 00:10:25,057 --> 00:10:28,327 It's unloving, it's not nice, it's judgmental, and 223 00:10:28,327 --> 00:10:31,731 who are we to decide on all the rigmarole you hear all the time? 224 00:10:31,864 --> 00:10:32,832 And so they don't do it. 225 00:10:33,265 --> 00:10:35,534 And there are some who openly practice open communion, 226 00:10:35,635 --> 00:10:36,969 which is, you all come up here. 227 00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:38,904 If you believe in Jesus, come on up. 228 00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:42,108 But see, what that does is it really denigrates the sacrament. 229 00:10:42,108 --> 00:10:46,445 And it also diminishes the fact that we are unique here. 230 00:10:46,712 --> 00:10:50,082 And what it does is it makes doctrine look like it's not important. 231 00:10:51,317 --> 00:10:52,952 And do the people in the congregation get that message? 232 00:10:53,386 --> 00:10:55,988 Yes, I've seen it in action. 233 00:10:56,455 --> 00:11:00,359 If the congregation that practices open communion begins to have a very dim view 234 00:11:00,359 --> 00:11:01,794 of doctrine, it really doesn't matter. 235 00:11:01,961 --> 00:11:03,929 We all believe in Jesus, what difference does it make? 236 00:11:04,330 --> 00:11:06,666 And that's detrimental, big time. 237 00:11:06,732 --> 00:11:08,934 If you don't believe that yet, you will as you see things go. 238 00:11:08,934 --> 00:11:11,971 I mean, you start letting doctrine go, you're losing everything. 239 00:11:12,104 --> 00:11:12,905 It's back to that body. 240 00:11:13,105 --> 00:11:14,206 What kind of body you wanna be? 241 00:11:14,373 --> 00:11:14,607 Healthy? 242 00:11:15,107 --> 00:11:15,408 Peacemeal? 243 00:11:15,574 --> 00:11:15,941 What do you want? 244 00:11:16,308 --> 00:11:18,544 And to just say we all believe in Jesus just does not cut it. 245 00:11:19,845 --> 00:11:20,012 Jeremy? 246 00:11:21,047 --> 00:11:24,016 Well, essentially Jesus did close communion. 247 00:11:24,250 --> 00:11:26,852 It was his group of community. 248 00:11:27,053 --> 00:11:27,153 Yeah. 249 00:11:27,687 --> 00:11:29,855 He didn't invite everybody else that was following. 250 00:11:29,889 --> 00:11:30,322 That's true. 251 00:11:30,723 --> 00:11:31,190 That's true. 252 00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:34,060 Yeah, it was for that fellowship, that community. 253 00:11:34,226 --> 00:11:34,560 That's right. 254 00:11:35,127 --> 00:11:35,394 I'd agree. 255 00:11:35,728 --> 00:11:35,828 John? 256 00:11:37,463 --> 00:11:40,132 There are special problems though. 257 00:11:40,399 --> 00:11:41,434 I come from Florida. 258 00:11:42,001 --> 00:11:42,435 Oh, yeah. 259 00:11:42,535 --> 00:11:43,135 Say no more. 260 00:11:43,669 --> 00:11:49,141 My hometown, 150,000 to 200,000 residents peak a season over a million. 261 00:11:49,575 --> 00:11:49,909 Yeah, right. 262 00:11:50,209 --> 00:11:56,515 8 in 10 people in church on a Sunday in January or February are from somewhere else. 263 00:11:56,549 --> 00:11:56,716 Yeah. 264 00:11:56,949 --> 00:12:00,019 We make it very clear that we're an LCMS congregation. 265 00:12:01,353 --> 00:12:05,124 I've noticed some of the Wisconsin Synod people that come won't take communion. 266 00:12:05,124 --> 00:12:05,391 That's right. 267 00:12:05,391 --> 00:12:07,993 They've been told not to anywhere that isn't Wisconsin. 268 00:12:08,527 --> 00:12:08,861 That's right. 269 00:12:09,161 --> 00:12:14,834 But 8 out of 10 people there are either only members of the church kind of part of the year 270 00:12:14,834 --> 00:12:18,571 or they're not really members of the church at all, our church, but they are LCMS. 271 00:12:20,506 --> 00:12:25,211 Well, I've been to LCMS, I still think it would be appropriate for that first time that I show up in that congregation, 272 00:12:25,478 --> 00:12:30,149 I'll go talk to the pastor and say, you know, I'm a snowbird and I'm here for the winter and I'll be attending a church. 273 00:12:30,282 --> 00:12:30,983 I'd like to take communion. 274 00:12:31,183 --> 00:12:31,751 And he'll say fine. 275 00:12:31,951 --> 00:12:32,918 Or even just make a phone call. 276 00:12:33,052 --> 00:12:33,986 I mean, it's not that hard. 277 00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:36,288 To me, that's the appropriate thing to do. 278 00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:38,691 And I know there are congregations like that. 279 00:12:38,791 --> 00:12:39,225 That's fine. 280 00:12:39,425 --> 00:12:40,226 That's not a problem. 281 00:12:40,593 --> 00:12:42,928 There are other exceptions that make it look a little bit tougher. 282 00:12:43,095 --> 00:12:46,565 See, ultimately, also we do believe in pastoral discretion. 283 00:12:46,832 --> 00:12:51,203 Is it possible for a pastor to sometimes commune somebody who is not LCMS? 284 00:12:51,470 --> 00:12:51,804 Yes. 285 00:12:52,805 --> 00:12:56,408 But those are what we would say are discretionary, rather emergency situations. 286 00:12:56,976 --> 00:13:00,713 And Aunt Mabel, who's visiting from out of town, I don't think qualifies. 287 00:13:01,413 --> 00:13:05,184 Would you actually turn somebody away who came to the communion rail? 288 00:13:05,551 --> 00:13:06,152 Yeah, I might. 289 00:13:06,485 --> 00:13:07,753 I've never seen that happen. 290 00:13:07,753 --> 00:13:08,087 I know. 291 00:13:08,587 --> 00:13:09,255 But I might. 292 00:13:10,156 --> 00:13:13,492 I have had the conversations with people out in the Narthex. 293 00:13:13,826 --> 00:13:16,529 You know, we're visiting, we'd like to take communion, what was your situation? 294 00:13:17,730 --> 00:13:22,368 And while we're members of such and such a church and it's not LCMS, I'd say we need to talk more. 295 00:13:23,035 --> 00:13:25,471 And I know you would like to take communion and I'd like you to have it. 296 00:13:25,571 --> 00:13:26,939 And ultimately, I hope we'd like to do that. 297 00:13:26,972 --> 00:13:28,574 But we need to talk a little more before this happens. 298 00:13:28,741 --> 00:13:30,176 And I'll put them off. 299 00:13:30,176 --> 00:13:33,646 Or I'll just tell somebody, no, you really don't belong at this altar. 300 00:13:34,547 --> 00:13:37,550 And see people say, well, I'm just there in name only. 301 00:13:37,583 --> 00:13:38,484 Well, then why are you there? 302 00:13:38,951 --> 00:13:41,253 I mean, you know, you just got to deal with these kinds of things. 303 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,489 So there are places for pastoral discretion. 304 00:13:43,656 --> 00:13:44,824 Like I said, these are rather rare. 305 00:13:45,124 --> 00:13:49,228 And just because they happen to be visiting, I don't think rises to the level of pastoral discretion. 306 00:13:49,428 --> 00:13:51,263 That's just a cop out to be lazy. 307 00:13:52,364 --> 00:13:58,237 Pastoral discretion is where you've got somebody who, the one time I did it in my ministry was 308 00:13:58,237 --> 00:14:00,406 where I had a gal in thge congregations dying of leukemia. 309 00:14:01,073 --> 00:14:02,741 Her dad was a member of my congregation. 310 00:14:03,008 --> 00:14:05,711 Her mother was Roman Catholic because she was, I don't know, 311 00:14:05,778 --> 00:14:07,813 Panamanian born or something, so Roman Catholic. 312 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,550 And I was in their home and the daughter was on her final days. 313 00:14:11,917 --> 00:14:14,320 And I was giving the sacrament to the daughter and the father. 314 00:14:14,486 --> 00:14:15,888 And the mom was standing right there. 315 00:14:15,955 --> 00:14:16,789 No one else was around. 316 00:14:17,022 --> 00:14:19,992 And I said, would you like to receive the sacrament too with your family? 317 00:14:19,992 --> 00:14:20,993 And she said, I would love to. 318 00:14:21,026 --> 00:14:21,861 So I communed her. 319 00:14:22,661 --> 00:14:24,663 And I thought it was the appropriate thing to do at that time. 320 00:14:24,830 --> 00:14:27,333 Because someone else, you can disagree with me and say, ah, I shouldn't have done it. 321 00:14:27,333 --> 00:14:29,168 Okay, but see, that was my pastoral discretion. 322 00:14:29,268 --> 00:14:32,171 And I thought that situation warranted it the one time I did it. 323 00:14:34,139 --> 00:14:34,173 Okay. 324 00:14:34,874 --> 00:14:35,074 Questions? 325 00:14:35,741 --> 00:14:36,976 Well, it's not a question, a comment. 326 00:14:37,476 --> 00:14:38,611 My relatives come visit a lot. 327 00:14:38,711 --> 00:14:39,478 They go to church with us. 328 00:14:40,512 --> 00:14:44,049 I tell them ahead of time, okay, I quiz them. 329 00:14:44,483 --> 00:14:45,050 What do you believe? 330 00:14:45,217 --> 00:14:45,751 What do you not believe? 331 00:14:45,951 --> 00:14:46,352 And everything else. 332 00:14:46,485 --> 00:14:48,387 And I say, sorry, you will not take communion with us. 333 00:14:48,854 --> 00:14:50,689 And my sister, oh, what? 334 00:14:51,457 --> 00:14:52,691 Sorry, that's just the way it is. 335 00:14:52,892 --> 00:14:52,958 Yeah. 336 00:14:53,525 --> 00:14:53,893 Okay. 337 00:14:55,294 --> 00:14:56,428 They still come to visit us. 338 00:14:56,528 --> 00:14:56,929 That's good. 339 00:14:58,797 --> 00:14:59,331 That's great. 340 00:14:59,698 --> 00:15:01,267 And so you've given a pretty clear message. 341 00:15:01,333 --> 00:15:02,334 There is a difference here. 342 00:15:02,401 --> 00:15:03,836 And you're not being nasty about it. 343 00:15:03,836 --> 00:15:04,803 You don't have to be judgmental. 344 00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:06,372 It's just there are differences. 345 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:09,108 And you see, it really doesn't do any good either to say, 346 00:15:09,375 --> 00:15:10,376 do you believe in the real presence? 347 00:15:10,776 --> 00:15:11,543 What does that mean? 348 00:15:12,244 --> 00:15:13,612 And yeah, I believe in the real presence. 349 00:15:13,712 --> 00:15:14,947 You see, it's bigger than that even. 350 00:15:15,114 --> 00:15:17,116 Just because I'm baptized, I recognize the real presence, 351 00:15:17,182 --> 00:15:18,884 does not mean I'm a worthy communicant. 352 00:15:19,385 --> 00:15:23,455 I might be a worthy communicant at my home congregation, but 353 00:15:23,455 --> 00:15:25,090 am I going to be communing here? 354 00:15:25,391 --> 00:15:26,926 Or do you have a different confession than I do? 355 00:15:27,059 --> 00:15:28,894 No, because we are celebrating our confession here. 356 00:15:29,194 --> 00:15:30,129 That's how we do it. 357 00:15:31,297 --> 00:15:31,897 Next up, Tom. 358 00:15:32,264 --> 00:15:35,334 Well, jumping off what Aaron was saying, 359 00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:37,436 when you talk about some churches, 360 00:15:37,569 --> 00:15:38,837 they have these communion statements. 361 00:15:39,004 --> 00:15:40,506 And some are just very short. 362 00:15:40,673 --> 00:15:41,073 Oh, yeah. 363 00:15:41,173 --> 00:15:42,508 Some of them are vague as get it out. 364 00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:43,008 They mean nothing. 365 00:15:43,342 --> 00:15:47,146 But I've also seen where some congregation is going 366 00:15:47,146 --> 00:15:49,848 to this dissertation that they put in. 367 00:15:50,382 --> 00:15:52,484 But they put in their bulletin that basically says, 368 00:15:52,484 --> 00:15:57,056 if you believe this, then you're OK. 369 00:15:57,356 --> 00:15:58,390 Yeah, see, I don't even like that, 370 00:15:58,424 --> 00:15:59,458 because I think that's missing the point. 371 00:15:59,558 --> 00:16:02,795 I think the point is, we are celebrating a communion 372 00:16:02,795 --> 00:16:03,395 together. 373 00:16:03,896 --> 00:16:06,398 We are this unity in Christ in this place, 374 00:16:06,565 --> 00:16:08,934 centered around our Lord and around our confession 375 00:16:08,934 --> 00:16:09,668 of his truth. 376 00:16:10,336 --> 00:16:11,303 That's what we're doing here. 377 00:16:11,603 --> 00:16:14,273 And it's not just a matter of check off the boxes, 378 00:16:14,573 --> 00:16:15,274 agree, agree, agree. 379 00:16:15,474 --> 00:16:16,508 Good, I get to go up there. 380 00:16:16,775 --> 00:16:17,843 It's more than that. 381 00:16:18,110 --> 00:16:19,311 And I know what they're intending. 382 00:16:19,411 --> 00:16:20,346 They're trying to do the right thing. 383 00:16:20,546 --> 00:16:22,081 But see, it's not a matter of just checklists. 384 00:16:22,081 --> 00:16:24,049 It's kind of like, well, what do I got to do? 385 00:16:24,616 --> 00:16:25,284 Well, you got to do this and this. 386 00:16:25,384 --> 00:16:25,951 Well, anything else? 387 00:16:26,118 --> 00:16:26,719 No, I guess that's enough. 388 00:16:26,852 --> 00:16:27,753 You're missing the point. 389 00:16:29,321 --> 00:16:30,289 That's not the point. 390 00:16:31,924 --> 00:16:32,424 All right, Aaron? 391 00:16:32,424 --> 00:16:34,994 When I was saying that when people come up to the table 392 00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:37,529 to say communion, that part of the communion, 393 00:16:37,730 --> 00:16:39,164 you have to just give them some kind of general blessing 394 00:16:39,164 --> 00:16:41,200 like you would a child or anything else that comes up. 395 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:42,935 Yeah, yeah, you might do that if you're not sure. 396 00:16:43,035 --> 00:16:43,936 So you're not excluding them. 397 00:16:43,936 --> 00:16:44,770 You're offering them a blessing. 398 00:16:45,204 --> 00:16:47,706 I've seen congregations that are very articulate in saying that. 399 00:16:47,806 --> 00:16:49,541 And I know adults who go up on a regular basis, 400 00:16:49,541 --> 00:16:53,345 like spouses who are married but they're not 401 00:16:53,345 --> 00:16:54,546 part of that congregation, will go up 402 00:16:54,546 --> 00:16:55,547 for the blessing on a regular basis. 403 00:16:55,681 --> 00:16:56,782 They know they're not going to get the sacrament. 404 00:16:57,249 --> 00:16:57,750 And they understand. 405 00:16:58,083 --> 00:16:59,051 But they still want the blessing. 406 00:16:59,184 --> 00:17:00,152 So they feel a part of that. 407 00:17:00,252 --> 00:17:01,420 And I'm OK with that. 408 00:17:02,187 --> 00:17:03,088 That's not a problem. 409 00:17:04,723 --> 00:17:05,057 John? 410 00:17:05,324 --> 00:17:07,826 How do they deal with this then at a church that 411 00:17:07,826 --> 00:17:09,628 might have 3,000 commandments and commandments? 412 00:17:09,628 --> 00:17:12,297 That gets rid of toughs, which is an argument for why 413 00:17:12,297 --> 00:17:13,232 we shouldn't have big churches. 414 00:17:13,232 --> 00:17:20,672 I'm just, I'm becoming a stronger believer 415 00:17:20,672 --> 00:17:21,373 than that all the time. 416 00:17:21,607 --> 00:17:22,441 Church can get too big. 417 00:17:22,574 --> 00:17:23,375 And then you need to make it smaller. 418 00:17:23,742 --> 00:17:23,976 I know. 419 00:17:24,076 --> 00:17:25,911 I know all the big church pastors fight with me 420 00:17:25,911 --> 00:17:26,945 and argue with me like that. 421 00:17:27,146 --> 00:17:28,614 They take great offense at that. 422 00:17:28,847 --> 00:17:31,050 But I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to that idea. 423 00:17:31,083 --> 00:17:33,485 I think there comes a point where church just gets too big. 424 00:17:33,685 --> 00:17:35,187 And the right thing to do is become a daughter church 425 00:17:35,187 --> 00:17:36,188 and split it off. 426 00:17:36,955 --> 00:17:38,090 But that's another topic. 427 00:17:39,892 --> 00:17:41,660 Yeah, I feel like people aren't real fond of that thought. 428 00:17:42,828 --> 00:17:43,195 Hi. 429 00:17:43,562 --> 00:17:45,264 So the self-examination questions 430 00:17:45,264 --> 00:17:47,366 at the beginning of the hymnal or 300? 431 00:17:47,399 --> 00:17:49,401 Questions for examination on page 313. 432 00:17:49,868 --> 00:17:51,370 Are those for the community then? 433 00:17:51,503 --> 00:17:51,770 Yeah. 434 00:17:52,004 --> 00:17:54,273 OK, so they're not for a pastor to say, 435 00:17:54,606 --> 00:17:56,175 well, if you want to take communion, read these. 436 00:17:56,208 --> 00:17:58,710 No, they're not a checklist to see if you're in. 437 00:17:58,811 --> 00:17:59,445 You've heard that. 438 00:18:00,012 --> 00:18:01,547 Yeah, yeah, they're not a checklist to see if you're in. 439 00:18:01,613 --> 00:18:04,316 They are for your benefit, for your own personal preparation, 440 00:18:04,316 --> 00:18:07,052 so that you are receiving a second one to your benefit. 441 00:18:07,219 --> 00:18:09,254 The idea of a worthy communicant, 442 00:18:09,288 --> 00:18:10,923 but more than worthy, it's one who 443 00:18:10,923 --> 00:18:12,357 is receiving it to the full benefit. 444 00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:15,160 That's why Luther drew up those questions, the 20 questions. 445 00:18:16,595 --> 00:18:17,162 Another one? 446 00:18:17,629 --> 00:18:19,832 To answer John's question, what I've seen done a lot 447 00:18:19,832 --> 00:18:22,000 of the experiences in the military, 448 00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:23,635 I've been in a lot of different ones. 449 00:18:24,436 --> 00:18:26,305 If it's a large congregation, the pastor 450 00:18:26,305 --> 00:18:28,740 will teach the elders what they need to ask, 451 00:18:29,374 --> 00:18:31,176 what they need to talk with the people about. 452 00:18:31,243 --> 00:18:32,845 So there's many who are in there. 453 00:18:33,512 --> 00:18:35,047 Either talk to the pastor or the elders. 454 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,715 And the elders are easily identified. 455 00:18:36,915 --> 00:18:38,484 They've got a big neon sign on them or something. 456 00:18:38,484 --> 00:18:40,686 On their station in London, Narthex 457 00:18:40,686 --> 00:18:41,653 in a certain place, whatever. 458 00:18:42,154 --> 00:18:43,455 And the people will go and talk with them. 459 00:18:43,655 --> 00:18:45,257 Then they will go and talk to the pastor 460 00:18:45,257 --> 00:18:46,992 and say, these people, and point them out. 461 00:18:47,326 --> 00:18:48,694 So that when they do go to the rail, 462 00:18:48,827 --> 00:18:49,828 the pastor doesn't say, who are you? 463 00:18:49,962 --> 00:18:50,829 Yeah, you can do this. 464 00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:52,431 And the surprising thing is, if you're 465 00:18:52,431 --> 00:18:53,532 a pastor of a large congregation, 466 00:18:53,765 --> 00:18:55,334 you know who people are. 467 00:18:55,734 --> 00:18:56,168 You do. 468 00:18:56,502 --> 00:18:58,403 I mean, if you're there, I mean, not right away. 469 00:18:58,437 --> 00:18:59,104 It takes time. 470 00:18:59,304 --> 00:19:01,473 But eventually, it's amazing how well you get to know your people 471 00:19:01,473 --> 00:19:01,907 and who is. 472 00:19:02,207 --> 00:19:03,842 I mean, you see a new face, you know it's a new face. 473 00:19:04,276 --> 00:19:04,910 It happens. 474 00:19:04,910 --> 00:19:06,945 You can do it better than you think you might. 475 00:19:09,148 --> 00:19:09,781 OK, Chris. 476 00:19:10,415 --> 00:19:13,385 I was going to say, my dad's pastoring in South Texas. 477 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,023 And he runs all over the place with this thing. 478 00:19:18,490 --> 00:19:21,693 He's got the paragraph of the opening of the bulletin 479 00:19:22,828 --> 00:19:25,464 just saying, if you don't, this is what we believe, 480 00:19:25,564 --> 00:19:27,566 this is what we're doing, if you don't agree with this 481 00:19:27,566 --> 00:19:29,067 or you don't know about it or you're just not 482 00:19:29,067 --> 00:19:31,770 familiar with it, just talk to or go to an usher 483 00:19:31,770 --> 00:19:33,472 and he'll point you to an elder and this and that. 484 00:19:33,472 --> 00:19:35,407 And he's done the training of the elders, 485 00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:36,475 as you were saying. 486 00:19:36,675 --> 00:19:39,545 Then before communion, he turns around. 487 00:19:40,312 --> 00:19:42,948 I've been to services where he just runs straight 488 00:19:42,948 --> 00:19:43,515 into communion. 489 00:19:43,949 --> 00:19:46,718 But he stops, turns around, and pauses and says, 490 00:19:47,019 --> 00:19:48,787 we're about to do this. 491 00:19:48,787 --> 00:19:51,156 If you're not a member, if you don't know what's going on, 492 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:52,925 please talk to someone before you come up. 493 00:19:52,925 --> 00:19:53,325 That's great. 494 00:19:53,625 --> 00:19:54,793 And then, I think that's appropriate. 495 00:19:55,127 --> 00:19:55,961 And then there's the blessing. 496 00:19:56,495 --> 00:19:58,597 See, the pastor will have a sense of who's there. 497 00:19:58,597 --> 00:20:01,667 See, this is the most nerve wracking 498 00:20:01,667 --> 00:20:02,801 at Christmas and Easter. 499 00:20:03,635 --> 00:20:05,103 I mean, the very times when you really 500 00:20:05,103 --> 00:20:06,338 want to have an excellent service, 501 00:20:06,572 --> 00:20:07,906 but you have faces like crazy. 502 00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:10,309 And so I think it's appropriate that those services especially 503 00:20:10,309 --> 00:20:11,410 to make some sort of announcement 504 00:20:11,410 --> 00:20:12,411 and make it real clear. 505 00:20:12,678 --> 00:20:14,246 But see, that's the very time the pastors don't want to, 506 00:20:14,313 --> 00:20:16,114 because they don't want to ruin the mood or something. 507 00:20:16,448 --> 00:20:18,083 But I mean, you've got to be faithful. 508 00:20:18,684 --> 00:20:21,019 There are creative ways to do it without being nasty. 509 00:20:21,420 --> 00:20:24,323 I think it's most appropriate just seeing it. 510 00:20:24,556 --> 00:20:24,990 It's what? 511 00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:27,926 I think it's most appropriate when I've seen it 512 00:20:27,926 --> 00:20:29,394 and experienced it. 513 00:20:29,928 --> 00:20:31,263 Yeah, it works. 514 00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:31,964 It works. 515 00:20:32,064 --> 00:20:32,564 I agree with that. 516 00:20:32,764 --> 00:20:32,898 That's good. 517 00:20:33,565 --> 00:20:33,966 All right. 518 00:20:35,667 --> 00:20:37,336 How often should communion be celebrated? 519 00:20:38,670 --> 00:20:39,171 Yeah, often. 520 00:20:39,605 --> 00:20:41,607 Luther made the comment he couldn't imagine anybody 521 00:20:41,607 --> 00:20:43,809 receiving the sacrament less than four times a year 522 00:20:43,809 --> 00:20:44,643 and still being a Christian. 523 00:20:45,344 --> 00:20:46,645 And so somebody read that and said, oh, 524 00:20:46,645 --> 00:20:48,280 Luther wants us to take it four times a year. 525 00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:51,483 And I can remember a good German Lutheran couple 526 00:20:51,483 --> 00:20:53,552 in my congregation in Michigan when I was growing up 527 00:20:53,552 --> 00:20:55,053 and my dad is a pastor there. 528 00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:57,422 And Gustav and Lydia. 529 00:20:57,422 --> 00:21:02,227 Yeah, they would take communion four times a year. 530 00:21:02,527 --> 00:21:05,597 They were in church every single Sunday, every single Wednesday, 531 00:21:05,731 --> 00:21:07,432 and they never missed four times a year. 532 00:21:07,566 --> 00:21:09,368 It didn't matter how many times it was offered four times 533 00:21:09,368 --> 00:21:10,902 a year, because that was what they haven't taught 534 00:21:10,902 --> 00:21:11,903 was the appropriate thing. 535 00:21:12,904 --> 00:21:14,606 And so those old things die hard. 536 00:21:14,773 --> 00:21:16,275 But the practice now, we're recognizing 537 00:21:16,742 --> 00:21:19,077 frequency is a good thing and the increase of it 538 00:21:19,077 --> 00:21:19,745 is a good thing. 539 00:21:20,245 --> 00:21:22,047 And every Sunday is a great idea. 540 00:21:22,781 --> 00:21:23,949 Celebrate the sacrament often. 541 00:21:24,182 --> 00:21:26,285 You've got so much going on, why would you withhold it? 542 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:27,552 So frequency is a good thing. 543 00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:30,555 Now about Common Cup and individual cups, 544 00:21:31,523 --> 00:21:33,125 since I brought it up once or twice. 545 00:21:33,225 --> 00:21:33,692 Shot glasses? 546 00:21:34,059 --> 00:21:35,560 Yeah, oh yeah, those shot glasses. 547 00:21:35,727 --> 00:21:36,428 Did I say that? 548 00:21:36,595 --> 00:21:37,095 Yes, you did. 549 00:21:37,829 --> 00:21:39,231 Must have been the other guy. 550 00:21:42,934 --> 00:21:45,737 Common Cup is so much superior to individual cups, 551 00:21:45,804 --> 00:21:47,306 it's not even hardly worth talking about. 552 00:21:48,507 --> 00:21:49,708 It just is. 553 00:21:49,975 --> 00:21:53,145 I mean, the Common Cup, you have the unity that's there, 554 00:21:53,512 --> 00:21:55,113 that's just the sacredness of it. 555 00:21:55,113 --> 00:21:56,915 You have the sense of the awe. 556 00:21:57,316 --> 00:21:58,617 This is a wonderful thing. 557 00:21:58,984 --> 00:22:03,789 The little plastic throwaway Jesus cups, just don't cut it. 558 00:22:05,724 --> 00:22:08,627 Well, you see the individual cups really 559 00:22:08,627 --> 00:22:10,195 are a late innovation. 560 00:22:10,495 --> 00:22:12,864 They probably didn't really arise until I think 561 00:22:12,864 --> 00:22:15,667 in the 50s or 60s is when they first came on the scene. 562 00:22:15,901 --> 00:22:17,436 And it's all over sanitation thing. 563 00:22:17,803 --> 00:22:18,937 People are afraid of germs. 564 00:22:19,104 --> 00:22:20,105 That's what it amounts to. 565 00:22:20,305 --> 00:22:22,107 They're afraid of going to catch something. 566 00:22:22,107 --> 00:22:25,143 But how many little old ladies in the back room 567 00:22:25,143 --> 00:22:27,012 are touching all those little individual cups anyway? 568 00:22:28,246 --> 00:22:29,681 And so we have a hand motion. 569 00:22:30,148 --> 00:22:31,149 Yeah, yeah, a hand motion. 570 00:22:31,683 --> 00:22:40,625 So that's really what's driving it, is this hypersanitation, 571 00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:43,462 oh, I don't want to drink out of somebody else's drink from this. 572 00:22:43,829 --> 00:22:47,466 And that really started in the 60s, 573 00:22:47,466 --> 00:22:49,668 and it's just this kind of a hyper concern for that. 574 00:22:50,602 --> 00:22:53,505 There have been actual studies done on how many germs 575 00:22:53,505 --> 00:22:54,272 are on a chalice. 576 00:22:54,639 --> 00:22:55,807 And the argument has been made, and I 577 00:22:55,807 --> 00:22:57,609 think pretty effectively, there's enough alcohol. 578 00:22:58,143 --> 00:23:01,546 And the metals of the silver and gold that are chalices 579 00:23:01,546 --> 00:23:05,183 are made of actually discourage the growth of viruses. 580 00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:06,151 And they don't live long in there. 581 00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:07,652 They actually kill a lot of germs. 582 00:23:08,887 --> 00:23:10,989 Bottom line it comes down to, is it a sacrament? 583 00:23:11,456 --> 00:23:12,491 And is this God's blessing? 584 00:23:12,657 --> 00:23:12,891 Yeah. 585 00:23:13,358 --> 00:23:15,160 And might I pick up a little spit from the neighbor? 586 00:23:15,293 --> 00:23:15,994 Maybe I will. 587 00:23:16,094 --> 00:23:16,795 I think I'll live. 588 00:23:17,763 --> 00:23:19,297 What effect do you guys wipe it off? 589 00:23:19,865 --> 00:23:22,234 Well, the wiping, I've heard said, and it's probably true, 590 00:23:22,401 --> 00:23:23,969 you're just spreading the germs a little more evenly. 591 00:23:25,504 --> 00:23:27,072 It's like a lot of saliva. 592 00:23:27,572 --> 00:23:28,373 But it feels good. 593 00:23:30,208 --> 00:23:31,843 Especially when you have the big blob of lip sticking. 594 00:23:32,244 --> 00:23:33,412 Oh, I don't think it's all this. 595 00:23:36,615 --> 00:23:37,916 Give it a little twist. 596 00:23:38,884 --> 00:23:41,720 Now, my practice, when I have the chalices, 597 00:23:42,154 --> 00:23:44,589 I just keep on turning so everybody gets a new edge 598 00:23:44,589 --> 00:23:46,024 until I get all the way around. 599 00:23:46,024 --> 00:23:47,826 And then I'll wipe the whole thing off really thoroughly 600 00:23:48,493 --> 00:23:50,295 and give it a good, thorough cleaning, 601 00:23:50,429 --> 00:23:51,963 then keep it going forward rather than doing a little wipe 602 00:23:51,963 --> 00:23:52,631 off each time. 603 00:23:52,798 --> 00:23:54,032 But there are different ways of doing it. 604 00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:56,234 Bottom line is, I think the chalice just 605 00:23:57,035 --> 00:23:59,671 conveys the holiness of the whole thing better, I think. 606 00:23:59,905 --> 00:24:01,139 That's what I prefer about it. 607 00:24:01,373 --> 00:24:03,942 And I think the sense of, you got the Jesus in the little cup 608 00:24:03,942 --> 00:24:04,476 and just, psht. 609 00:24:04,576 --> 00:24:05,944 It's just the disposable. 610 00:24:06,745 --> 00:24:07,179 It's cheap. 611 00:24:07,512 --> 00:24:09,948 And it just, to me, cheapens the whole thing. 612 00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:12,017 Now, does it mean it's wrong? 613 00:24:12,184 --> 00:24:13,452 No, it's not wrong. 614 00:24:13,452 --> 00:24:14,753 But it's certainly not the best. 615 00:24:14,753 --> 00:24:16,388 And I'm always grateful for our chapel. 616 00:24:16,855 --> 00:24:18,690 And we don't even, it's nothing else. 617 00:24:18,990 --> 00:24:20,225 There is a chalice, and that's it. 618 00:24:20,358 --> 00:24:21,827 It's not even anything discussed. 619 00:24:22,227 --> 00:24:24,629 And it's always amazing to me how seminarians can come here 620 00:24:24,629 --> 00:24:26,465 who have never touched a chalice in their life, 621 00:24:26,665 --> 00:24:28,834 and they somehow survive and do all right. 622 00:24:29,534 --> 00:24:31,670 We don't have disease spreading through our campus. 623 00:24:33,104 --> 00:24:34,306 What do the Catholics do? 624 00:24:34,573 --> 00:24:35,507 They don't do individual cups. 625 00:24:35,574 --> 00:24:36,408 No, they don't do individual. 626 00:24:36,608 --> 00:24:36,875 They do a couple. 627 00:24:36,875 --> 00:24:38,210 They do all the little parts of Jesus. 628 00:24:38,810 --> 00:24:39,344 What's that? 629 00:24:39,678 --> 00:24:41,446 They have all the little cups with all the little cups. 630 00:24:41,446 --> 00:24:42,414 Yeah, right, exactly. 631 00:24:42,781 --> 00:24:43,148 Exactly. 632 00:24:43,148 --> 00:24:44,149 It'd be a big problem. 633 00:24:44,716 --> 00:24:45,517 It'd be a big problem. 634 00:24:46,418 --> 00:24:46,985 Yeah, Jeremy. 635 00:24:47,586 --> 00:24:53,024 I noticed that some people have the pastor put the wafer right 636 00:24:53,024 --> 00:24:53,625 on their car. 637 00:24:54,693 --> 00:24:55,327 I've never. 638 00:24:55,694 --> 00:24:56,294 Oh, man. 639 00:24:56,394 --> 00:24:57,295 I would not have done that. 640 00:24:57,295 --> 00:25:00,265 When I was a kid, when I was growing up, 641 00:25:00,332 --> 00:25:01,766 you never touched the host. 642 00:25:02,634 --> 00:25:03,935 This thing of putting out your hand 643 00:25:03,935 --> 00:25:05,604 and receiving the host is a new thing. 644 00:25:06,271 --> 00:25:07,839 That's come on in the last few years, 645 00:25:07,973 --> 00:25:09,307 and it's picked up popularity. 646 00:25:09,608 --> 00:25:10,809 I still don't like it very much. 647 00:25:10,809 --> 00:25:14,279 I remember Dr. Nagle saying, you don't take Christ. 648 00:25:14,446 --> 00:25:15,714 He's given to you. 649 00:25:16,114 --> 00:25:18,717 And so I kind of like that. 650 00:25:18,884 --> 00:25:21,219 But see, and even if you're doing this right 651 00:25:21,219 --> 00:25:23,188 with good piety, and Dr. Burreson will tell you this. 652 00:25:23,255 --> 00:25:24,322 He's our liturgist guy. 653 00:25:24,422 --> 00:25:26,525 If you're doing it properly, you receive Christ 654 00:25:26,525 --> 00:25:29,027 into your hand as on a little throne, 655 00:25:29,227 --> 00:25:31,897 and then you raise him to your mouth, you don't pick him up. 656 00:25:32,497 --> 00:25:34,266 But that's just clumsy to do it, but you raise him 657 00:25:34,266 --> 00:25:35,667 to your mouth and receive him that way. 658 00:25:35,734 --> 00:25:37,702 That's the appropriate way to do it in good piety. 659 00:25:38,169 --> 00:25:39,471 But the best thing to do is just open your mouth 660 00:25:39,471 --> 00:25:41,806 and let the pastor drop it on in there. 661 00:25:42,207 --> 00:25:43,875 But a lot of churches don't do that anymore. 662 00:25:44,209 --> 00:25:46,311 My home church, you've got to do the hand thing. 663 00:25:46,945 --> 00:25:49,447 But sometimes I get stubborn, I just sit there and wait. 664 00:25:56,955 --> 00:25:59,624 And some pastors think it's easier on the hand, 665 00:25:59,891 --> 00:26:02,761 but I taught my people when I was the pastor, 666 00:26:02,928 --> 00:26:04,396 I never did have anybody doing hands. 667 00:26:04,496 --> 00:26:06,131 I did everybody's mouth, and I taught them how to do it. 668 00:26:06,231 --> 00:26:08,833 And if you practice a little bit, it's not hard to do. 669 00:26:08,833 --> 00:26:10,902 You can get pretty good at zinging the wafers. 670 00:26:12,370 --> 00:26:14,172 It helps you, you just put your finger behind 671 00:26:14,172 --> 00:26:15,073 a little bit, give a little push. 672 00:26:15,740 --> 00:26:17,309 It works, it works. 673 00:26:17,876 --> 00:26:18,643 It's not that hard. 674 00:26:20,111 --> 00:26:20,412 Yes? 675 00:26:21,212 --> 00:26:23,281 What about the church I go to back in Houston? 676 00:26:23,515 --> 00:26:26,251 They do, when they do communion, they have the altar, 677 00:26:26,351 --> 00:26:28,286 and then they have down front, they have continuous 678 00:26:28,286 --> 00:26:30,255 communion, where people just walk. 679 00:26:30,622 --> 00:26:32,123 Is that fairly new? 680 00:26:32,424 --> 00:26:35,827 Well, the church I served, we actually had a large 681 00:26:35,827 --> 00:26:38,163 congregation, and we had four communion rails going. 682 00:26:38,663 --> 00:26:40,265 And we did have individual cups available, 683 00:26:40,498 --> 00:26:42,200 because some people are just so squeamish about 684 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,668 the common cup, they just won't do it. 685 00:26:43,702 --> 00:26:45,103 And they wouldn't take communion, because they've got 686 00:26:45,103 --> 00:26:47,138 this notion that it's gonna be bad or something. 687 00:26:47,439 --> 00:26:49,174 And so we did offer individual cups. 688 00:26:49,374 --> 00:26:51,509 I would say to the credit of the people of that congregation, 689 00:26:51,910 --> 00:26:54,913 the individual cup people were probably less than 20% 690 00:26:54,913 --> 00:26:56,514 of those receiving the sacrament. 691 00:26:56,915 --> 00:26:58,683 We would actually have individual cups for a while, 692 00:26:58,750 --> 00:26:59,618 and when people were done with that, 693 00:26:59,784 --> 00:27:01,252 then all four rails would go to common cup. 694 00:27:01,653 --> 00:27:04,356 So the chalice was the preferred way. 695 00:27:04,689 --> 00:27:07,792 But so far as having a set placed down here 696 00:27:07,792 --> 00:27:09,227 where the sacrament's being distributed and one up here, 697 00:27:09,361 --> 00:27:10,028 that's not a problem. 698 00:27:10,128 --> 00:27:11,329 You're just distributing the sacrament. 699 00:27:11,863 --> 00:27:13,732 But the thing I'm talking about is like, 700 00:27:14,065 --> 00:27:16,368 they have the rail where you go up and you kneel down, 701 00:27:16,568 --> 00:27:19,371 then down front they have continuous cattle call 702 00:27:19,371 --> 00:27:19,804 kind of thing. 703 00:27:20,205 --> 00:27:21,272 Yeah, drive through. 704 00:27:21,272 --> 00:27:22,207 Yeah, drive through, communion. 705 00:27:22,607 --> 00:27:23,308 That's okay too. 706 00:27:23,608 --> 00:27:25,443 I mean, there's nothing that says you have to kneel. 707 00:27:25,810 --> 00:27:28,513 The value of kneeling, of course, is it raises 708 00:27:28,513 --> 00:27:30,749 the significance of it again, gives you the opportunity 709 00:27:30,749 --> 00:27:33,284 to show your humility before God and the reception of it. 710 00:27:33,385 --> 00:27:35,687 But to get it standing up and walking through a line, 711 00:27:36,254 --> 00:27:37,389 there's something wrong with that. 712 00:27:37,856 --> 00:27:39,557 It's not the preferred way probably, but it's okay. 713 00:27:41,226 --> 00:27:41,526 Yes? 714 00:27:42,661 --> 00:27:44,129 One of the things that I struggle with, 715 00:27:45,930 --> 00:27:48,566 as a child or when I was young, 716 00:27:49,167 --> 00:27:50,935 we would go up and nobody would kneel 717 00:27:50,935 --> 00:27:52,470 until the pastor welcomed you to the table. 718 00:27:53,805 --> 00:27:56,608 Nowadays, the first person, the pastor welcomes the first 719 00:27:56,608 --> 00:27:58,910 person and everybody takes their own time about it. 720 00:28:00,578 --> 00:28:02,847 Well, a lot of this just has to do with logistics. 721 00:28:03,515 --> 00:28:05,617 If you're serving a congregation of 100 people 722 00:28:05,617 --> 00:28:08,253 and you've got 50 people who are gonna be receiving 723 00:28:08,253 --> 00:28:10,855 the sacrament, you can do it. 724 00:28:11,022 --> 00:28:12,857 I mean, it's not gonna take two hours. 725 00:28:13,425 --> 00:28:16,361 But if you do it that way with a large congregation, 726 00:28:16,661 --> 00:28:17,729 it just bogs down. 727 00:28:18,063 --> 00:28:19,831 I mean, here at the Sem, how do we do communion? 728 00:28:20,065 --> 00:28:21,266 I know you guys haven't been here maybe 729 00:28:21,266 --> 00:28:23,435 for the big Wednesdays yet, but we have the sacrament 730 00:28:23,435 --> 00:28:25,270 on a Wednesday morning over there and you got hundreds 731 00:28:25,270 --> 00:28:26,671 of people who are receiving the sacrament, 732 00:28:26,905 --> 00:28:30,408 we can commune the whole congregation in about 10, 15 minutes 733 00:28:30,408 --> 00:28:32,510 because we do it in a continuous way. 734 00:28:32,510 --> 00:28:34,446 You just come up, you kneel, you receive and you go. 735 00:28:34,779 --> 00:28:36,147 And we don't bless individual tables. 736 00:28:36,281 --> 00:28:37,849 You just keep it going, but everybody gets to kneel. 737 00:28:38,083 --> 00:28:40,318 So there's nothing right or wrong about that. 738 00:28:40,385 --> 00:28:44,689 It's just a matter of you wanna keep the piety to it, 739 00:28:44,889 --> 00:28:48,126 the sacredness to it, the reverence and give the opportunity 740 00:28:48,126 --> 00:28:49,694 and yet also try to be efficient. 741 00:28:49,994 --> 00:28:51,229 I mean, that's just part of it. 742 00:28:51,629 --> 00:28:53,732 I was at a church that was just so inefficient 743 00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:56,034 when I was in Indiana once doing pulpit supply. 744 00:28:56,401 --> 00:28:57,936 And this thing was just the opposite extreme. 745 00:28:58,336 --> 00:29:00,705 I mean, you'd have people that all come lining up 746 00:29:00,705 --> 00:29:03,675 and this communion rail had, I think capacity of 10 747 00:29:03,675 --> 00:29:05,310 at the most for the whole church. 748 00:29:05,643 --> 00:29:07,011 And they would all stand there and look around, 749 00:29:07,312 --> 00:29:09,714 take a step forward and kneel and you commune them. 750 00:29:10,014 --> 00:29:12,250 And then they'd all stand up and they'd all walk away. 751 00:29:12,450 --> 00:29:13,852 Then the next bunch would all walk in. 752 00:29:13,952 --> 00:29:16,454 It was like, oh man, what a rigmarole. 753 00:29:16,654 --> 00:29:17,555 It took forever. 754 00:29:18,223 --> 00:29:21,059 And it's not unnecessary, but that was just their habit. 755 00:29:21,392 --> 00:29:22,527 They hadn't been taught something else. 756 00:29:23,495 --> 00:29:25,230 Someone needs to come in and straighten them out. 757 00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:27,632 But a pulpit supply guy can't do it all. 758 00:29:28,533 --> 00:29:29,901 All right, yes. 759 00:29:31,903 --> 00:29:32,604 Leftover wine. 760 00:29:33,438 --> 00:29:34,606 Yeah, we talked about that a little bit before. 761 00:29:35,073 --> 00:29:37,575 It's not the blood of Jesus per se, 762 00:29:37,575 --> 00:29:39,744 but it is sacred because it's been set aside 763 00:29:39,744 --> 00:29:40,512 for special use. 764 00:29:40,945 --> 00:29:42,714 And so either it should be consumed 765 00:29:42,714 --> 00:29:46,117 or it should be returned to the ground from whence it came. 766 00:29:48,653 --> 00:29:49,020 Yeah. 767 00:29:49,053 --> 00:29:50,455 Is that like after each service? 768 00:29:51,122 --> 00:29:52,423 You know, if you had multiple services. 769 00:29:53,758 --> 00:29:54,325 I think it's best. 770 00:29:54,325 --> 00:29:55,927 Because then you're doing the words of institution. 771 00:29:55,994 --> 00:29:59,130 I think it's best after each service. 772 00:29:59,130 --> 00:30:01,399 But I mean, you know, well, that's a waste. 773 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,002 You're going to kill your budget by dumping a little wine. 774 00:30:04,702 --> 00:30:06,004 I don't think you are. 775 00:30:06,471 --> 00:30:08,973 But theoretically, could you use that same wine 776 00:30:09,474 --> 00:30:11,409 at the very next service and consecrate it again? 777 00:30:11,509 --> 00:30:12,110 Yeah, I suppose. 778 00:30:14,846 --> 00:30:15,146 OK. 779 00:30:16,014 --> 00:30:17,015 Let's see, anything else? 780 00:30:17,415 --> 00:30:19,384 How old should you be when you first start taking communion? 781 00:30:21,352 --> 00:30:23,888 In the Eastern Orthodox Church, they give communion to infants. 782 00:30:26,558 --> 00:30:29,127 We would say, 1 Corinthians 11 says, 783 00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:30,995 a person should be able to examine himself 784 00:30:30,995 --> 00:30:32,597 or a man should be able to examine himself. 785 00:30:33,131 --> 00:30:35,834 So the ability to be able to check yourself, 786 00:30:36,334 --> 00:30:37,135 am I repentant? 787 00:30:37,202 --> 00:30:39,470 Do I recognize my need for Christ's forgiveness? 788 00:30:39,971 --> 00:30:40,972 That's part of this. 789 00:30:41,206 --> 00:30:42,774 So we would say there needs to be a certain age that 790 00:30:42,774 --> 00:30:43,274 does that. 791 00:30:43,675 --> 00:30:46,144 Where that age is, no one has drawn a hard line. 792 00:30:47,245 --> 00:30:48,379 Probably varies from kid to kid. 793 00:30:49,414 --> 00:30:52,150 Traditionally, we've always done the eighth grade confirmation 794 00:30:52,150 --> 00:30:53,284 and then you let you take communion. 795 00:30:54,052 --> 00:30:55,253 And that's been a practice for a long time, 796 00:30:55,286 --> 00:30:56,487 which is probably a bad one. 797 00:30:57,488 --> 00:31:00,291 First communion earlier is a much better practice, 798 00:31:00,325 --> 00:31:02,493 quite honestly, because we're separating communion 799 00:31:02,493 --> 00:31:03,795 from confirmation. 800 00:31:04,362 --> 00:31:06,231 What does communion have to do with confirmation anyway? 801 00:31:06,464 --> 00:31:06,664 Nothing. 802 00:31:07,131 --> 00:31:10,068 Confirmation has to do with baptism, if anything, 803 00:31:10,235 --> 00:31:11,970 because you're confirming what Christ has done for you 804 00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:12,871 there and making it clear. 805 00:31:13,338 --> 00:31:14,539 So communion is a different issue. 806 00:31:14,839 --> 00:31:17,208 So a first communion, apart from confirmation, is a good idea. 807 00:31:17,575 --> 00:31:18,810 I'm in favor of that. 808 00:31:19,010 --> 00:31:19,978 I think it should be earlier. 809 00:31:19,978 --> 00:31:22,714 I wouldn't go on to first grade, probably, 810 00:31:22,814 --> 00:31:24,215 I don't know, fifth, sixth grade, 811 00:31:24,315 --> 00:31:25,550 somewhere in there, fourth grade, maybe. 812 00:31:25,817 --> 00:31:26,351 Something like that. 813 00:31:26,484 --> 00:31:27,886 Just when a kid is old enough to start 814 00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:29,254 thinking seriously about what's going on 815 00:31:29,254 --> 00:31:31,222 and being able to receive what Christ is giving, 816 00:31:31,422 --> 00:31:32,290 they should receive it. 817 00:31:32,557 --> 00:31:33,958 And it's appropriate. 818 00:31:34,792 --> 00:31:36,194 Would you then teach a class on them first? 819 00:31:36,394 --> 00:31:36,728 Absolutely. 820 00:31:37,829 --> 00:31:39,364 I would have some instruction beforehand 821 00:31:39,364 --> 00:31:41,165 so they know what's going on, so they're prepared for this. 822 00:31:41,232 --> 00:31:44,068 So they also have an idea of the doctrines of the church. 823 00:31:44,435 --> 00:31:44,969 I would do that. 824 00:31:46,604 --> 00:31:49,741 I had a situation once and it's really kind of bothered me ever 825 00:31:49,741 --> 00:31:51,309 since, and it's really on this subject. 826 00:31:51,476 --> 00:31:55,013 It was during one of the twice a year services. 827 00:31:55,647 --> 00:32:00,084 And I had an individual come up and had his young son with him. 828 00:32:00,118 --> 00:32:02,854 It was probably maybe three. 829 00:32:04,088 --> 00:32:06,391 And what I did is I went to commune him 830 00:32:06,391 --> 00:32:09,027 and he took the bread. 831 00:32:09,894 --> 00:32:11,062 And he went and took the cup. 832 00:32:11,162 --> 00:32:13,531 And what he did is he gave the bread to his son. 833 00:32:14,165 --> 00:32:15,934 And then he came back for bread again. 834 00:32:16,834 --> 00:32:19,170 And rather than make a scene, I communed him again. 835 00:32:20,438 --> 00:32:22,473 Yeah, it should. 836 00:32:22,774 --> 00:32:24,008 The guy doesn't know what he's doing 837 00:32:24,008 --> 00:32:25,009 and he should be instructed. 838 00:32:25,276 --> 00:32:26,044 He needs to be talked to. 839 00:32:26,144 --> 00:32:27,645 You're not only looking for him after. 840 00:32:28,179 --> 00:32:28,513 Yeah. 841 00:32:29,013 --> 00:32:33,484 Well, this actually goes back to the question too 842 00:32:33,484 --> 00:32:34,585 about do you just skip somebody. 843 00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:36,287 Usually the practice I would have, 844 00:32:36,321 --> 00:32:37,755 if I would see somebody's face at the altar, 845 00:32:37,889 --> 00:32:39,090 that I didn't know who they were, 846 00:32:39,524 --> 00:32:41,092 I would put the best construction on it 847 00:32:41,092 --> 00:32:42,694 and assume that they belonged there. 848 00:32:42,794 --> 00:32:43,695 And I would commune them. 849 00:32:43,828 --> 00:32:46,064 But then I would track them down after the service right away. 850 00:32:46,297 --> 00:32:48,232 And I'd find out who they were and what was going on. 851 00:32:48,232 --> 00:32:50,468 And if I found out they didn't have any business there, 852 00:32:50,568 --> 00:32:51,469 I would tell them that. 853 00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:53,838 I'd say, well, I'll commune you today because I didn't know. 854 00:32:53,938 --> 00:32:55,573 But I don't want you to come into the Sacrament again 855 00:32:55,573 --> 00:32:56,474 until we've talked more. 856 00:32:56,574 --> 00:32:56,808 Whatever. 857 00:32:56,808 --> 00:32:57,642 I would do that. 858 00:32:58,076 --> 00:33:00,044 So I wouldn't just make a big scene 859 00:33:00,044 --> 00:33:02,313 and blow somebody off not knowing ordinarily. 860 00:33:04,382 --> 00:33:04,716 OK. 861 00:33:04,749 --> 00:33:05,783 That makes sense too. 862 00:33:06,284 --> 00:33:09,087 I participate in the Stephen Ministry program. 863 00:33:09,287 --> 00:33:11,356 One of my care receivers had Alzheimer's. 864 00:33:12,023 --> 00:33:14,325 And at one point, I discussed with Pastor 865 00:33:14,325 --> 00:33:15,460 when I went to commune him. 866 00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:18,196 He took the wafer and put it in his pocket. 867 00:33:18,663 --> 00:33:19,197 Oh, thank you. 868 00:33:19,263 --> 00:33:19,964 I'll keep that. 869 00:33:20,732 --> 00:33:22,734 And I didn't know how to react to that. 870 00:33:22,967 --> 00:33:25,103 And I kind of got him to eat it finally. 871 00:33:25,103 --> 00:33:26,471 But I explained it to Pastor. 872 00:33:26,571 --> 00:33:28,206 And he said, we shouldn't give him communion anymore. 873 00:33:28,239 --> 00:33:29,774 He doesn't understand what's going on. 874 00:33:29,874 --> 00:33:30,241 That's right. 875 00:33:30,708 --> 00:33:31,109 That's right. 876 00:33:31,809 --> 00:33:32,610 Excellent point. 877 00:33:32,910 --> 00:33:34,112 That whole idea of the first Corinthians 11, 878 00:33:34,245 --> 00:33:35,346 being able to examine yourself. 879 00:33:35,446 --> 00:33:36,848 I had a request once from somebody 880 00:33:36,848 --> 00:33:41,786 who wanted to give communion to their comatose spouse 881 00:33:43,354 --> 00:33:44,856 through an NG tube. 882 00:33:44,856 --> 00:33:46,591 And I said, no. 883 00:33:46,891 --> 00:33:48,493 They're not able to examine themselves. 884 00:33:48,626 --> 00:33:49,594 And it's not necessary. 885 00:33:49,627 --> 00:33:51,729 They don't need the sacrament for salvation. 886 00:33:51,796 --> 00:33:53,031 They don't need it for their faith. 887 00:33:53,131 --> 00:33:53,998 Their faith is fine. 888 00:33:54,365 --> 00:33:56,134 And we don't want to belittle the sacrament 889 00:33:56,134 --> 00:33:58,870 by giving it when the person's not aware of what's happening. 890 00:34:01,773 --> 00:34:02,206 Yeah. 891 00:34:02,273 --> 00:34:03,408 I have a story for you. 892 00:34:03,741 --> 00:34:04,942 How we're telling stories. 893 00:34:05,443 --> 00:34:09,313 I have a certain relative of mine, not my father, 894 00:34:09,947 --> 00:34:14,185 who was at the White House one day and visiting presidents. 895 00:34:14,185 --> 00:34:16,854 And decided to bless the nation. 896 00:34:17,188 --> 00:34:19,824 So to bless the nation, she went outside 897 00:34:20,625 --> 00:34:22,894 and gave communion to the ground. 898 00:34:24,295 --> 00:34:25,730 What do you think about that one? 899 00:34:25,997 --> 00:34:26,631 Pretty dumb. 900 00:34:29,767 --> 00:34:32,170 We shook our heads when we heard about this. 901 00:34:32,303 --> 00:34:33,371 She was really proud of herself. 902 00:34:33,604 --> 00:34:35,273 But we were like, what were you thinking? 903 00:34:36,107 --> 00:34:38,209 Yeah, I was just thinking, that's pretty crazy. 904 00:34:39,343 --> 00:34:42,146 No, the sacrament is for individual human beings 905 00:34:42,146 --> 00:34:44,549 who receive the benefits of the forgiveness of sin. 906 00:34:44,715 --> 00:34:46,117 It's not a magic thing. 907 00:34:46,951 --> 00:34:48,553 People do some pretty goofy stuff. 908 00:34:50,488 --> 00:34:51,055 They do indeed. 909 00:34:54,158 --> 00:34:56,427 Finally then, also because of this community element, 910 00:34:56,761 --> 00:34:59,197 that's also why we don't encourage small group 911 00:34:59,197 --> 00:34:59,630 communions. 912 00:35:00,164 --> 00:35:02,934 I ran into this group of some people 913 00:35:02,934 --> 00:35:05,169 once who had the idea that they would have a family reunion 914 00:35:05,169 --> 00:35:06,504 and have communion at the family reunion. 915 00:35:07,605 --> 00:35:09,941 And I said, that's probably not a good idea. 916 00:35:09,941 --> 00:35:12,844 I found out about it because the guy, the father of the family 917 00:35:12,844 --> 00:35:13,311 would do it. 918 00:35:13,344 --> 00:35:14,946 He says, well, I do communion sometimes. 919 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:15,446 What? 920 00:35:15,646 --> 00:35:16,714 So I found out more. 921 00:35:16,881 --> 00:35:18,116 And it was just part of their practice. 922 00:35:18,416 --> 00:35:19,083 Not a good idea. 923 00:35:19,517 --> 00:35:21,953 It's also not a good idea why we ordinarily don't have, 924 00:35:22,453 --> 00:35:24,055 like you have a small group minister in the church. 925 00:35:24,155 --> 00:35:25,556 You don't have small groups practicing communion 926 00:35:25,556 --> 00:35:26,624 among their small group. 927 00:35:26,791 --> 00:35:28,893 Because it belongs to the whole community. 928 00:35:29,327 --> 00:35:32,530 And it's a celebration of that whole community's faith. 929 00:35:32,864 --> 00:35:36,134 That's also why we don't have like a wedding where 930 00:35:36,134 --> 00:35:37,802 the bride and groom say, we want to have communion. 931 00:35:38,102 --> 00:35:39,570 But we're not going to come in the whole congregation. 932 00:35:39,570 --> 00:35:40,872 No, no, no way. 933 00:35:41,439 --> 00:35:42,540 That's a big no-no. 934 00:35:42,740 --> 00:35:44,609 Because communion is always for everybody. 935 00:35:44,775 --> 00:35:46,144 It's not just for like the bride and the groom 936 00:35:46,144 --> 00:35:47,044 and everyone else just watches. 937 00:35:47,211 --> 00:35:48,312 It's for the whole community. 938 00:35:48,412 --> 00:35:50,414 If the whole community doesn't get it, then you don't give it. 939 00:35:50,681 --> 00:35:51,449 You don't do it. 940 00:35:51,616 --> 00:35:52,850 It just doesn't work that way. 941 00:35:53,951 --> 00:35:56,087 I just thought of something about the creed. 942 00:35:57,188 --> 00:36:00,158 When you say, I believe in the Holy Spirit, 943 00:36:03,528 --> 00:36:05,963 you say the communion of saints. 944 00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:06,564 Yes. 945 00:36:07,165 --> 00:36:09,567 And in fact, there are scholars who 946 00:36:09,567 --> 00:36:13,004 argue that that was actually a reference to the Holy Communion. 947 00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:17,675 Pastor, explain it to me that communion 948 00:36:17,675 --> 00:36:20,311 is happening in all time. 949 00:36:20,912 --> 00:36:21,045 Yes. 950 00:36:21,045 --> 00:36:23,714 So we have things who have died, all the ones who are yet 951 00:36:23,714 --> 00:36:25,816 to come, everybody in the Holy Spirit 952 00:36:25,816 --> 00:36:26,551 is there who's asking for God. 953 00:36:26,551 --> 00:36:27,151 That's right. 954 00:36:27,451 --> 00:36:30,555 And so one of the very cool things about communion, 955 00:36:30,788 --> 00:36:32,423 the sacrament, is when you're communing, 956 00:36:32,523 --> 00:36:34,292 you're communing not only with the church militant 957 00:36:34,292 --> 00:36:36,994 all around you, the church on Earth still living, 958 00:36:37,361 --> 00:36:38,329 that's what we call the church militant, 959 00:36:38,696 --> 00:36:39,931 but also with the church triumphant, 960 00:36:40,464 --> 00:36:41,799 those saints who have gone before. 961 00:36:42,233 --> 00:36:43,568 And they even have their practice 962 00:36:43,568 --> 00:36:45,703 in some Scandinavian churches where 963 00:36:45,703 --> 00:36:47,805 they have a round communion rail with the altar in the middle. 964 00:36:48,072 --> 00:36:50,575 And the congregation goes up and kneels around one half 965 00:36:50,575 --> 00:36:51,008 of the rail. 966 00:36:51,275 --> 00:36:53,044 The other half is always empty because that's 967 00:36:53,044 --> 00:36:55,513 where the past saints can come and commune with those 968 00:36:55,513 --> 00:36:56,247 who are still living. 969 00:36:57,748 --> 00:36:58,349 Very cool. 970 00:36:59,650 --> 00:37:00,251 It's very cool. 971 00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:03,254 Absolutely. 972 00:37:04,288 --> 00:37:04,622 Thank you, Christ. 973 00:37:05,022 --> 00:37:05,423 Absolutely. 974 00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:06,357 Yeah. 975 00:37:06,991 --> 00:37:08,526 And we say that in the communion liturgy, 976 00:37:08,626 --> 00:37:10,061 in all four days of the feast to come, 977 00:37:10,127 --> 00:37:11,629 we're looking forward to the eschatological banquet 978 00:37:11,629 --> 00:37:12,363 when we're all together. 979 00:37:12,863 --> 00:37:15,166 And the saints from all places and all times 980 00:37:15,166 --> 00:37:17,034 were all gathered together here around the altar. 981 00:37:18,869 --> 00:37:18,970 Ted? 982 00:37:19,537 --> 00:37:21,572 I'm ready for the eschatological. 983 00:37:22,373 --> 00:37:24,175 The eschatological, the liturgy of all things. 984 00:37:24,575 --> 00:37:26,911 I think it's time for you to explain that. 985 00:37:26,911 --> 00:37:27,178 Tomorrow. 986 00:37:27,578 --> 00:37:27,712 OK. 987 00:37:30,414 --> 00:37:31,649 OK, anything else on communion? 988 00:37:34,285 --> 00:37:34,418 No. 989 00:37:36,454 --> 00:37:37,488 All right, good. 990 00:37:38,222 --> 00:37:40,625 Now we have a chapter which we've covered quite a bit stuff 991 00:37:40,625 --> 00:37:42,660 already, but we just need to pick up a few odds and ends 992 00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:44,228 to make sure that we don't leave anything out. 993 00:37:44,595 --> 00:37:45,930 And we have a chapter titled.